Submissive/fearful urination

Posted By: Shilohsmom

Submissive/fearful urination - 02/06/21 06:45 PM

Sasha seems to have all the confidence in the world most of the time but there are times she suffers from submissive/fearful urination with me.

The problem seems to stem from the time I called her to me to get her ears done. She hates having her ears cleaned. I know now I was wrong at insisting she come to me. But what's done is done, now I'm dealing with the consequences.

I've been working with her and I think she's made progress but she still has the problem at times and I'm just not sure how I should change things to make it better.

First, I changed the word 'come' to 'here'. Kind of sort of worked but she still has issues at times. We'll be playing with her toys and all the sudden she clearly doesn't want to come to me. I avoid eye contact, don't approach her at all or if I have to go her way I do it sideways and again, avoid eye contact. Still the fear. If she does come my way she pees when she approaches me.

Sasha has a wonderful life here. I don't rule by an iron fist at all. I've never struck my dogs and I just don't get how to get over this fear.

When I do ears now I simply get the supplies and go to here and get the job done with rewards afterwards.

I've read some about Nothing in life is free but I'm not sure if that would be good for her.

So what do you suggest? And Middle, I'd love your feedback as you have a great deal of experience and I"m a bit less sensitive than I use to be silly

I do a lot of training with her every day and she gets lots of exercise. So what am I doing wrong? This is a pup that loves to sit on my lap for love, she knows she's loved and safe...well, clearly she doesn't feel safe all the time or this wouldn't be happening.
Posted By: jarn

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/06/21 07:34 PM

Neb used to pee when he was excited...perhaps that was a bit submissive.

What about calling her here, give a treat, massage her ears, give a treat, massage other ear, give a treat, happily release? Not cleaning her ears, just getting her used to having her ears handled in a positive way again. It might be a slow process.

I think others may have some better advice of course.
Posted By: middleofnowhere

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/06/21 08:55 PM

I've never had submissive urination... (and I can be a real hard ass with dogs - the youngest here was difficult because she would take grouchy words so so hard)

I like Jarn's ideas.

But, too, maybe just totally change the way you call - I know you've done some of this but maybe even more? As in perhaps to "whoop it up happy dance time"???? I'm thinking that maybe you are calling softly and coaxing? I've seen dogs in vet offices (pre Covid, long ago, Arkansas experience) get increasingly freaked out when the owners would coo reassurances. (ok "softly offer consolation"). And I've told vet staff to not coo at my dogs.. (who? me? I'd say that???) On the other hand, one time "cooing" does work is if you're laying on the floor on your back and maybe rolling around. Now realistically if I lay on the floor on my back I will be moaning and struggling to get up without pain and I'm sure that, yes, my dogs would find that very enticing. Outside on the grass, not so bad but on hardwood floors and my aging body...

Now if I had called my dog, it would have been "get over here!" if there had been any reluctance. (escalating to the tone of "hell's going to rain on your butt unless...") I'm willing to bet that is not how Rosa calls her dogs. And that's not saying there's anything wrong with not being a grouch like me about it.
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/06/21 11:03 PM

Thank you both. I don't have a problem with the ear cleaning anymore. She doesn't like it, neither do most dogs. She usually runs to her crate, I pull her out, quickly do the ears and she gets treats right away. When it comes to things that must be done, like ears and nails and grooming I just do what I have to do. I think they deal with that just fine.

The problem is we'll be outside playing and all the sudden I can tell she's having a problem. She'll stand there and look at me and I can tell she doesn't want to approach me. Last time this happened I had offered a treat to her and that's when she got scared. All the sudden she's running circles and when she got up the nerve to approach me she peed the whole way to me.

She approaches me all the time for affection, I just don't get what I'm doing that could cause the fear.

I think what we'll work on is a Here with the leash on and her favorite treats. Maybe I don't use the leash enough. The problem is what if there's an emergency and she decides to flea me instead of coming to me.

I just don't get the fear. I'm hardly anyone to fear when it comes to my dogs. I cherish them and the way I show that is with kindness. Maybe I'm too kind. Sometimes I have to put my foot down but that's mostly at Kody when he barks too much. I really try not to raise my voice but it seems I have to reach a certain tone before he listens. Sasha doesn't bark so she's rarely scolded.
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/06/21 11:08 PM

I didn't want to make a mistake and lose everything I wrote, but I wanted to add. I spend time daily training these two. It's always on a rewards system and always positive.

Sasha has a drive unlike anything I've ever seen before and that's one thing I love about her so much. Training is a breeze. It can be a challenge for me having to think of new things to teach her but she's smart as can be and lots of fun to train.

Except for the accident (remember when I fell on her and dislocated her elbow teary) she's never felt any kind of pain. I just don't know where she could come up with the idea that I would ever hurt her.
Posted By: middleofnowhere

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/07/21 12:45 AM

Well, maybe trying running away when you call her? That will sucker most dogs in. Maybe it's become a game with her? She's picking up on something whether it's your tone of voice, a bit of anxiety there maybe since she's stopped coming and acting worried -- so in turn you get worried? What happens if you just leave? Like, go inside yourself. ... or just call her, then go on about whatever. .. Somehow, she's got your number on this. (Smart dogs can be butt heads, too)

Perhaps it is time to stop worrying about how and just move on -- maybe paying it a little less attention? I dunno. I had it all figured out until 7 years ago when BTY2 landed. A year to get house breaking down... a year to get over car sickness (I had not had a car sick dog before) ... she'll have something down perfect, looking good and then she won't. And then there was the trial where my 80s and 90s scoring dogs both just said the heck with this crap, we ain't trackin' today. Thanks for the ride to town, though. ...
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/07/21 02:03 AM

I think running from her is an excellent idea!!! It's something I haven't tried and I could see where that might just snap her out of it and have her chasing me. Great idea Middle. Lets hope she thinks it's a good idea too. And if that doesn't work I'll try walking away. Actually, as I write this I realize that I've all but gotten her to stop peeing inside the house by ignoring her when she's having a moment. I think we're on to something Middle. I'm going to give both suggestions a try.
Posted By: jarn

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/07/21 02:09 AM

Those are great suggestions - let us know how it goes Rosa! I will hope that solves it.
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/08/21 01:23 AM

We've had two days now of 'retraining' Sasha. I've been acting super excited when I call her for a treat and so far it's working. Once today she was getting a little wagley butt but she came to me, got her treat and left with praise. As soon as she got the treat I would look away but still be praising her.

I was also quick to treat her when she came to me and I'd say "Good come" or "Good Here'. I'm trying to associate really good treats with those words and her having come to me.

I'll keep everyone posted.
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/12/21 09:27 PM

Some times a little change can make a big difference. I hope things keep improving with Sacha.
Posted By: jarn

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/14/21 02:58 PM

This is good news Rosa! I'm so glad there's improvement.
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/17/21 05:58 PM

Just wanted to update everyone. I've been working with Sasha daily on coming to me, using both Come and Here randomly. She still gives me the wiggly butt sometimes but has yet to pee happyboogie I think its just going to take time and consistency. She's such an amazing little girl.

I'm getting some agility stuff from Middle but she didn't have a tunnel so I bought that. Sasha mastered it in no time. I even did a make shift jump. In just one session she conquered a combination of tunnel and a jump!!!!! I'm hoping all this will improve her confidence even more.
Posted By: jarn

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/17/21 07:18 PM

Oh that will introduce her confidence. This is fabulous news! Great work both of you smile
Posted By: DarkEyes

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/18/21 04:40 PM

Good job, Rosa! That's a good idea. Spending time with her and the activity levels seem to be helping.
Posted By: Shilohsmom

Re: Submissive/fearful urination - 02/23/21 01:28 AM

Sasha is really coming along. We practice daily and she's coming now with confidence. No more wiggly butt. happyboogie We're going to keep it up. I'm just so happy. There's no reason for that little girl to be afraid of anything, especially not me.
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