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Mast Cell Tumors

Posted By: LifeAsMe

Mast Cell Tumors - 04/17/10 02:52 AM

Bringing this over from the other forum....

3 years ago Banshee, our oldest boxer, had a stage 1 mast cell tumor removed. She developed another spot on her chest that we have been watching for changes. Welll...it changed..suddenly. It's now 3 times the size it was. The problem is she now has one on her face, a suspicious spot on her side and two on her rear. Chances are very, very high these are mast cell tumors recurring. We have not had them tested yet but are treating this like they are.

My friends that are vet techs said that if she was their dog that they wouldn't do anything. She's now 10 1/2. We take a chance of losing her on the table because of her age and general health. By removing them, we take a high chance of them exploding all through her body and coming back in force. There isn't one tumor...there are 5 in all quadrants of her body.

Right now we're trying to review our options. One of those options being slowing the cancer thru diet and supplements and maintaining her quality of life. My one vet tech friend said we could have another 1-2 years with her if we do that.

I've gotten estimates for aspirates, bloodwork and xrays. Anywhere from 300-500. If we decide not to remove, I'd rather take that money and sink it into maintaining her quality of life. All articles I've found say that boxer tend to have a less aggressive mast cell tumors than other breeds even though they are more likely to get them.

I find it very interesting that she is very allergic to bees. Her face swells right up. I wonder if that is connected in any way.

So...

I found this article on tagamet and benadryl.

http://www.bavariasboxers.com/cancer.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html

And this on injecting steroids around the tumors (so less invasive)
http://bostonterriertn.org/Fannie%20Mae%27s%20Library/Holeopathic/Cancer%20Treatment.html

Diet and supplements

I've read that low carb, high omega 3 can slow it as well.
Here's an article
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2638

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/AltMed/Cancer/Cancer_AltMed.htm

Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/17/10 05:35 AM

I've been going through all my old cancer links, and there aren't too many that are mast cell specific, but I did post a number of the diet an tagamet links that I did find.

I see that you found the tagamet references already. A number of folks think it's just that it is good for the histamine, but it has all sorts of anti-cancer benefits. I used it on Indy, but had to take her off because it was too immune stimulating (lyme vaccine issue).

It looks like with all the googling that you have done, that you are already up on a lot of this stuff. Here's an old thread when Indy had her surgery: http://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/133915/Mast_Cell_Tumors#Post133915
There is a post there that talks of Green Tea. I didn't use it for Indy then, but I did later on a funny lump, and it seemed to do something (though I had it removed). Indy is getting a funny lump now, and I may try it on that.

I might also consider a mushroom product. This is the one that Indy's homeopathic vet put her on for her MCT:
http://www.wellvet.com/powermushrooms.html
On the old board, there was a group that was using the mushroom Turkey Tail, and they posted this source for mushrooms:
http://www.mushroomharvest.com/catalog/index.php
I would use the Power Mushrooms, but there are also other good mushroom products out there.

Indy's regular vet said that she has seen some very good responses to prednisone for this type of tumor - interesting about the injection link that you posted. If the disease is systemic, the local injection probably isn't what you want though?

I agree with you about spending the money on quality of life things, rather than aspirates, etc. With so many bumps cropping up, it sounds systemic, and I would just attack it with that in mind. A needle biopsy, where they sick a single needle in and look at it under the microscope should have an answer in about 10 minutes, if you want to go that route. Of course that risks disturbing the tumor. Never easy choices.

I would increase the vitamin C, and also add some bioflavanoids.

There just ain't no way around it, cancer really sucks.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/17/10 07:29 AM

I was looking up tumeric for mast cell tumors, and found this anecdotal info:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x74812#74828
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 02:38 AM

I need some input on good premade RAW products. I want to switch her to RAW to control her carb intake and DH is having a hissy fit about the "hassle" with RAW. If I can find a premade one at a decent price I can get him to compromise.

Isn't there one that is dehydrated? Any bones will have to be ground for her.

Lisa...started her on tagamet and benadryl today. That site said BID for three weeks if there are spots. Do you remember anything about long term use? We, including dogs, build up resistance to antihistamines so eventually the benadryl will have to be increased.
Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 02:47 AM

Honest Kitchen is deyhdrated. www.thehonestkitchen.com

There's Nature's Variety, Primal, Bravo, Oma's Pride...what else?

When I was looking for the cats, I went on each website, looked at what they had that was complete, how much they suggested the cats would eat, and then priced it...

Not very helpful, but that should start you at looking at some of them.

My cats and I chose Primal. The dogs are getting the NV as treats since the cats won't eat them. laugh

I am sorry about Banshee. Are you doing the pred?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 02:53 AM

Not yet. I want to have my information before going further with the vet. I know we have a bottle of prednisone around here. I think they are 10mg and the bottle is full.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 02:58 AM

LifeAsMe, I didn't continue the meds longerm, so I'm not real helpful there. I switched over from the Benadryl to bioflavanoids and vit C because I knew that Indy wouldn't tolerate meds longterm; I only used it for a month, at most two? (the pred for not quite a week) For the tagamet, once it ramps up the immune system, I don't think you need to increase it. Again, for Indy, it was too good at what it did. Does Banshee have any other autoimmune or health problems?

Tagamet will decrease the acidity in the stomach, which does decreaase things like calcium absorption and perhaps other meds. I wouldn't worry about this for now, but you might, down the road, want to consider a digestive enzyme.

I am using Primal frozen for Max (duck). I would look around and see what's available in your area, and use that to figure out what to look up online. Here I have a choice between Nature's Variety and Primal, and only the Primal here has the duck (needed a novel protein).
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 03:07 AM

How does this one look? I would like to see the meat listed first.

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-EasyRaw-Dehydrated-Dog-Food/999244.aspx
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 03:14 AM

Banshee has thyroid...on soloxine. Other than that I think she's a fairly normal senior.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 03:19 AM

ok...so questions for the vets are

1) Started tagamet and benadryl. Can it be used longterm?
2) Prednisone - recommended? how much? how long?
3) take in information regarding steroid injections at sites of growths.
4) Full blood panel - what will it show? Will it give an indication of cancer? how advanced?
5) Aspirate - Is there a point to it other than confirming mast cells as suspected per health history?

Things to do...
1) Find a dehydrated RAW diet low in carbs
2) Start her on Curcumin.

I have her on
1000 mg salmon oil
400 mg Vit E
200 mg tagament BID
25 mg benadryl BID
Soloxine BID
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 04/18/10 05:16 AM

The pred and benadryl is the standard recommended treatment.

Your vet may not know about the anti-cancer props of tagamet - I brought in the LEF stuff for my vet to see. She was very impressed by it. There shouldn't be an issue with they thyroid, unless it's autoimmune, and then you'll know because Banshee will start gagging a bit if the thyroid swells. Most likely it shouldn't be an issue, and certainly, right now, the mast cell disease is the over-riding factor.

Indy had very localized cancer, nothing showed in her bloodwork - I'm not sure anything will as long as the organs are okay???? I wonder if the eosinophils would be high? Indy's weren't high, but they were lower after her surgery.

I was looking the other night to see if curcumin or IP6 would help with mast cells, didn't find anything definitive on either. I know both of them are very good for colon cancer though.

As for that dehydrated product you linked - still looks high in starch? There are two reasons why raw is good for cancer. The first is that grains and starches contain sugars, and sugar feeds cancer. The thought on the second is that raw meat in particular (I'm not so sure about dehydrated), contains enzymes. There is a thought that enzyme therapy is an important adjunct to fighting cancer: http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditioncancer.htm

Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/09/10 01:27 AM

Banshee has an appt on Friday to aspirate the growths, an exam, and while we're there already stressing her out...a thyroid check.

I'll print out all the info I've found and take with me for the vet to look over.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/09/10 03:48 AM

good luck hugging Hope they are just annoying growths.

How is she doing overall?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/09/10 03:01 PM

She's good. She acts happy and playful. Doesn't seem to be in any distress at all. She makes alot of funny noises while breathing when she sleeps.

There is one growth in the original mast cell spot. It's been there for years and we were told it was caused by excess skin when they sewed the spot back up but it doesn't look right to me so I want that spot, the one on her chest and the one on her face aspirated.

I think they'll have to sedate her a bit to get the aspirations done but Jen is really good with animals so a muzzle and a little muscle might get it done. smile
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/11/10 05:10 AM

How is she doing on the "stuff" you have her on?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/11/10 02:14 PM

It doesn't seem to be shrinking the growths but who knows what it's doing internally so we'll keep her on it.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/12/10 02:46 AM

On another board, someone used a warm soak of green tea with some success?

If it's a more systemic mast cell disease, just arresting it might be a huge accomplishment???
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/14/10 03:04 PM

It went very well at the Vet. He said the benadryl and tagamet is the right treatment. He agreed that at 10 1/2 years it's better for her if we try to slow it down rather than be aggressive with surgery and chemo. He did NOT do a fine needle aspirate. He said by doing that there is a high risk of 'seeding' the mast cell (if that is what it is) and the only purpose would be my peace of mind with no benefit to her. In fact, if they are mast cells, it is more detrimental to do the FNA than to do the surgery and biopsy.

He said that injecting steroids around the growth is used with large animals. He's never done it with a dog and that there is a fine line on where to do the injection as to not disturb the mast cells.

I think the one growth on her chest is shrinking. It's so hard to tell when you look at it all the time. It doesn't look so much like a hanging growth but more of a funny looking bump.

Bottom line is we still do not know if it is mast cell but we're going to treat it as such. So the course is to continue the benadryl/tagamet, change her diet. If the spots get worse or start looking angry then we'll move on to prednisone but he did NOT want to start that now because it will suppress her immune system. Also to keep close eye on her stool to make sure she isn't getting diarrhea since that can be a sign of the mast cells affecting her GI tract.

Whew~!!! To have a vet work with you and give honest answers without doing a bunch of unnecessary junk!! I"m loving it!!
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/15/10 08:01 AM

My old vet didn't believe in aspirating either. In your situation, I can see it either way. It's nice to know if it's not, but if there's a good chance it's mast cell disease, and surgery isn't an option, and you're going to treat as you are, then I can see the argument. I have them FNA Indy's suspicious lumps - I have one done on my thyroid every so many years.

That would be cool if the one bump was decreasing. With Indy, after surgery, I switched her from benadryl to bioflavanoids, but I am not sure I would do that with active mast cell disease.

Tagamet, and other acid relievers, might upset the flora of the stomach. Probiotics might not be a bad idea?

I'm glad that she seems to be doing well!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/15/10 06:23 PM

I'm switching her to RAW and she'll be getting tripe as soon as I can find some I"m satisfied with. I want grass fed or else it seems to defeat the purpose (IMO). So, would she still need the pro-biotics?

He did say to watch her stool for diarrhea as that could be a sign of the mast cell irritating her GI tract. I have slippery elm here to start using if that is happening to at least coat it.

He said to continue the 25mg benadryl twice a day and increase it as needed. We don't want to start out with 75mg every 8 hours because you will become immune to it so we want to increase it slowly.

He seemed optimistic that she could die of old age rather then the mast cell. He didn't have the attitude of "If you don't do this then..." He seemed to think our logic was sound and that was good to hear from a medical professional.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/16/10 04:51 AM

I think the logic is sound, and it's great that the vet is on board with it. I agree that it sounds like this can be managed for a long time - I just don't know of any specific cases. On the canine cancer yahoo group, most of the cases seemed to combine with surgery or chemotherapy, so you are in groundbreaking territory thumbup

I don't have experience with tripe. My basis of recommending the probiotics was based on this problem: http://fightcolorectalcancer.org/researc...icile_infection

I had my mom on a very low dose of zantac (75 mg per day) to treat a condition she had in her stomach and esophagus. She mentioned to her nurse practitioner that it was helping, so the NP upped her meds to 300 mg twice a day (I never followed up on that, aaargh, I didn' know!). Well, sure enough, her next operation, the antibiotics induced a C-diff infection (which I firmly believe the zantac played a role too), which resulted in the removal of her entire colon and a dramatic lifestyle change frown

So.....I'm a bit gun-shy using these H2 meds longerm without something to treat the flora. (The proton pump inhibitors are MUCH worse btw.) This could just be my personal paranoia based on a very rare case!

The noisy breathing...can you tell if that's coming from the nose or elsewhere? Before or after the meds were started?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/04/10 06:02 PM

Banshee's spot on her chest is all but gone. It is perfectly flat skin without any hair. I really had to look for it. I can't find the spots on the back of her legs or her side either. However, the spot on her face is larger and lumpier though.

We started her on turmeric this week. 800 mg/day. DH couldn't get a handle on how to get her to swallow the large capsule. Hellooo!!! Peanut Butter!!!

As far as probiotics, she gets yogurt with as many probiotics as possible in it. I'm looking for a grass fed tripe right now.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/04/10 07:36 PM

Wow, GREAT news on the spots that have disappeared thumbup Sure do wish the spot on her face would respond too, darn it frown

I dip the pills in a gob of yogurt here, but I can see the peanut butter being a hit!

Sounds like her digestive system is hoding up well too, since you haven't mention it?

Curcumin is great stuff!

Eta: forgot to say what a great job you've done putting together a program - sure am glad that she is responding so well.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/04/10 07:53 PM

She does quite a bit of panting after she eats. I wonder if we need to split her meals up in smaller portions, even if we only wait 1/2 hour to an hour and then give her the rest.

Or if she's not dealing with chicken very well? I'm going to give her some duck and fish this weekend and see how that goes. She did well with the beef but since I"ve added chicken she started the panting. no other signs that she's not tolerating it though.

We'll see what happens with the other spot now that we've added the curcumin. I can also up the dosage of benadryl. She's only getting 25 mg morning and night right not she can have up to 75mg every 8 hours. I'm holding off on increasing it because she will eventually develop a tolerance to it so I'm hoping the anti-inflammatory properties of the curcumin help with that spot.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/04/10 08:39 PM

From your description, it sounds like the chicken. With Max, the panting is usually digestive issues, often it's gas. But these dogs are all so individual!

For the other spot, you could always try the green tea compress if it doesn't respond? I always have trouble remembering to do that stuff on a regular basis though...life can be so hectic.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/06/10 03:31 PM

It must be the chicken. She did fine on beef, switched her to duck and mackerel...no panting and she WANTS to eat it.

Unfortunately, I was looking in the wrong spot for the one growth. It's still there and not any smaller. frown
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/06/10 05:27 PM

Well crap on that growth! I was all excited frown IP6 helps cancer cells die - it changes them so that they can be killed. I don't know if it is useful for mast cells, but it did amazing things for my dad. Maybe something to think about.

I'm wondering if there is any chance those spots are lipomas.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/06/10 06:22 PM

They could be lipomas. They could be anything and we'll never know because we chose to not disturb them. I hope we made the right decision. frown

On the Upside of things...the growth on her chest is NOT any larger. It is a bit smaller than before we started. And we can't find the other spots on her side and back legs.

She's perkier than I've seen in a long time! smile
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/06/10 06:35 PM

Perkier and steady state sounds great though! The fact that they have not grown, you're right, is significant right there smile

With these old girls, decisisons are tough. I found an enlarged lymph node near indy's mast cell tumor scar the other night. The vet just checked them a week and a half ago. Two days back on tagamet and her lyme vax hip is all puffy and she can't walk right. But then, I also found a tick attached near that node that same night - not engorged, but wonder if that contributed to the node. She is also prone to lipomas in that area. With her heart, surgery isn't much of an option for her either.

No easy decisions sometimes.

I think you're doing great for Banshee, quality at this point, is what is important.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 02:04 AM

Looking up something for my mom, I tripped over this:
http://www.healthcentral.com/acid-reflux/news-265761-98.html

Maybe a sublingual a couple times a week?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 02:10 AM

hmmm...is that a good or bad thing in this case? if it blocks cell division then it would block mast cells from dividing? maybe that's why tagament helps with cancer?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 02:49 AM

I believe that tagamet boosts a certain type of white blood cell?

But you have a good point - something to think about a little more?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 01:51 PM

Can you read that whole article?

I'll do some more research into it. How do I supplement B-12? And what does B-12 do?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 04:21 PM

I will have to see if I can get the article when I'm on the laptop. Sometimes I can access stuff through work.

B-12 is pretty critical, if it's low, it can cause anemia, nervous system troubles, digestive stuff. But may not want it high either.

Will google more later too!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 04:24 PM

Thanks Lisa!
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 06:01 PM

I couldn't find that paper, but I found this one:
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B2fU...jZjFm&hl=en ,
(try reloading that page if you can't retrieve?)

here's the abstract to that one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15135846

And here is the abstract to a different one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1358279

Still am unsure about the B-12 and the cancer, though it looks like it might take a bit of awhile to create a B-12 deficiency. Might be more worried if this was a GSD with SIBO!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 06:11 PM

She's now on a RAW diet so I can supplement within that by choosing foods higher in B12 also.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR20/nutrlist/sr20w418.pdf

So what is the recommended daily amount for a dog?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 06:12 PM

Where is natalie? She knows all the diet stuff....
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 06:14 PM

http://rdafordogs.blogspot.com/

I'd like to review some sources for this website but here's a bit of it.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 06:25 PM

Edited to add: Skip all this...I read the site wrong. It's
Quote:
Each Measurement listed is amount needed per kg. of body weight unless otherwise indicated.
So I'll have to refigure what she's getting per week. I think we're probably right at the recommended dosage.


SKip all this...I'll be back later!

Looking at the RDA for dogs from the above site of 1.15ug and what she is eating (from the usda pdf) she is already way over the RDA

3oz canned sardines = 7.60ug
3oz ground beef = 2.32ug
Yogurt (8 oz) = 1.38ug
1 medium egg = 0.57ug

Sardines once a week at 6 oz/day = 15.2ug
Beef once a week at 6oz/day = 4.64ug
1 cup yogurt per week = 1.38ug
2-3 medium eggs per week = 1.71ug

Total just on these items is 22.93ug.
RDA for the week is 8.05ug

She's actually getting way more than that from her diet so it should be sufficient to cover any depletion from the tagamet.

However, we have been giving the tagamet with her meals. I wonder now if we should be giving it after so her food is being digested before the med.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/10 07:36 PM

Looks good for the b-12 amounts!

If she tolerates it, after meal would be good, will mess with nutrient absorption less, yes!
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/11/10 05:43 AM

Been checking out Indy's old tumor arm, she either has swollen lymph nodes again, or several small lipomas. I'm afraid it's the lymph nodes.

She can't tolerate the tagamet, or mushrooms, because of her lyme vaccine issue. The benadryl seems to be doing weird things for her heart issues. Surgery I don't think is an option either, since her heart is already breaking frown

I am going to try this product:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Activated-Quercetin-200-Capsules/1011?at=0
http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=1209

If she can't digestively tolerate that product, I'll try quercetin only.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/10 07:27 PM

It looks like Banshee dug the growth on her face. It's now twice the size it was and is oozing blood. It doesn't appear to be scabbing over but remains raw with the blood drying around it.

Oh Lisa! I'm so sorry. I didn't see your post earlier! How is Indy?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/18/10 10:25 PM

NOT GOOD on Banshee's sore. I missed this earlier, how is it now?

Indy, well, Indy is my project. Turns out the quercitin looks to be an mdr1 substance, so I have to be careful with it. It also has other interactions. Always something. I don't know if it's several lipomas or several lymph nodes in her case. Kinda in a bind with her.

If you used quercitin with tagamet, we would have to look for interactions.

I have some ideas on that sore, hoping that it's healing though and you don't need them.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/18/10 11:17 PM

I'm not sure if it's scabbing over or if it just keeps oozing blood and it's drying on there but it's twice the size that it was and the one on her chest has increased in size also at the same time. We've doubled her benadryl. She get's 800mg/day of curcumin and the tagamet.

I'm wondering if green tea compress will help heal it? Or I might try to put some tea tree salve on it. I'm a bit at a loss and can't even find anything on the internet about an "oozing growth"
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/18/10 11:52 PM

Did this happen after you added the curcumin?

Is there any indication that this might be a good thing? I don't see it that way, but maybe the body expelling?

I was thinking of the green tea compress. Second thing I was thinking of was the zymox spray - it helped Max's fistula quite a bit. But i would go with the green tea first.

There is something called "black salve" that will do this to tumors, but that's scary territory for me, having never used it.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/10 12:11 AM

It looks like she might have dug the growth? We came home and found it had dried blood around it. The curcumin works as a blood thinner also so maybe that is the reason it's not healing.

I'll try the green tea and see if that help.

My main concern is the both growths are larger now. If it is mast cells then I'm thinking that whatever happened created a very bad effect.

I do have a box of yunnan baiyao capsules here. I wonder if I should give her one of those? They were given to me and I've been saving it in case she starts developing any ulcers.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/10 12:28 AM

I was just talking to the vet about yunnan baiyao, great for external bleeding (poultice) or internal bleeding. I have a few capsules here too. I don't know which would be better. Maybe the Green Tea first, and if that isn't enough, keep doing the GT externally while giving the YB?

I"m concerned if these things erupted after the curcumin was added, I'm not sure about the timing? It should have done nothing but help though, I would think.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/10 01:33 AM

Sure wish they had this available now...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdo2rs_sunday_tech
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/10 07:12 AM

ooh, forgot about the benadryl recall. The following link contains the Press Release Links to check the product that you have: http://www.drugs.com/fda/mcneil-consumer-healthcare-over-counter-products-recall-12751.html
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 12:04 AM

How is Banshee doing?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 12:23 AM

You are funny!! I was just sitting here thinking I should update this!

The spot on her face is now healed and has reduced in size. It's not as small as it was but it's no longer inflamed and oozing blood. The spot on her chest is also looking better. That got inflamed at the same time as something happened to the spot on her face. That actually looks a bit smaller than it was.

I think one thing with the mast cell growths is they go up and down? Not sure but I thought I read that somewhere.

Her energy level and attitude are good! She still wants to play and talks to us! smile I haven't seen any sign that things are going downhill. Did not realize that it's been 2 months since all this started!
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 01:18 AM

LOL, I just must have "sensed" it was time for an update!

I'm so glad to hear that she has healed up and is doing well overall! That's a relief, I was a bit worried.

How much curcumin/tumeric are you giving? Can you link the product?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 01:25 AM

I stopped that because it could thin the blood. I think I have the wrong one anyways.

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Turmeric-800-mg-per-serving-200-Capsules

I think what I needed was this
http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-...IngredientFacts

The Jarrow has 380mg of curcumin in it. The NSI does not have any curcumin in it, just Curcuma longa. The NSI might help Jax with inflammation so I'm not wasting it but I think Banshee needs the Jarrow.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 03:14 AM

The Jarrow looks similar to the one that I've been using. This is the one I have here: http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Curcumin-C3-Complex-500-mg-120-Capsules/13?at=0 I tried to get my Dad to take it, but he wouldn't.

I've been giving it to Indy about 3 times a week, though I keep wondering if it should be more frequent. I'm not completely committed to it, though everythign I read about it is very encouraging. Weird that Banshee's lump opened up after you started it - I keep wondering if that was coincidence!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 03:48 AM

I think it was a coincidence.

I think she scratched it with her mombo nails that she doesn't like to have cut. Scott always let her get away with growling so he would stop. Now I get to deal with it. Amazing how when I say "No!" and grab her foot tighter she stops growling. We're getting them whittled down. smile

But I do have to wonder if the turmeric kept it from clotting. I"m going to order the Jarrow when I order Jax's HA.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 04:11 AM

Oh, I forgot about the scratching. That makes sense. I don't know about the clotting though.

I added that pure quercetin supplement to *my* protocol and it helps me quite a bit. I guess the mixed bioflavanoids were not enough to compete with the dog hair here! I've been giving Indy some too. I don't think her lumps are bigger, still don't know if they are lipomas or lymph nodes, both are equally suspect.

I was reading the other night that niacinamide reduces mast cell degranulation and histamine release, so something perhaps for both of us to keep in the back of our minds.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 02:49 PM

Not just for mast cells! Also for arthritis.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/kaufman3.html

http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/foods-containing-niacin.html

Dosage and overdose info
http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/nicinamide.php
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/10 07:11 PM

Very cool links smile

Niacinamide does have the potential to lower phosphorous levels, so might be a good option for those with kidney issues. We found that out on another board, a chihuahua was taking th doxy/niacinamide protocol for autoimmune and developed low phosphorous. That dog was on a high dose long term. I'm trying to recall if I noticed any changes in his allergies while he was on it, but he was too complicated to figure out at the time.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/10 06:30 PM

Been awhile since I've updated this thread. We've kept Banshee on 100mg benadryl 2x day, 1 tagamet per day, 1000 mg fish oil, 400 iu Vit E, 1000 mg Vit C.

Her growths are not getting any larger, she's lost some weight and has a pretty good energy level. smile Between the diet and the supplements I think she feels better than she has in quite awhile. smile
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/10 06:56 PM

That is GREAT news!!!! happyboogie
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/10 09:56 PM

That is great news. Thanks for the update.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/10 09:58 PM

50 mg benadryl 2x day, not 100. It's 100 mg total for the day.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/02/10 04:58 PM

It sounds like the protocol is working for her, great news! A very powerful combination, so glad that the update is positive!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/21/10 08:31 PM

Can you believe Banshee is 11 now!? Scott thinks her throat is swollen and she's choking alot. The spot on her chest is still there but it's much, much smaller. I had to hunt for it. The one on her face is the same. I think it might be time for xrays to see what is inside.

She has lost quite a bit of her excess weight since starting her RAW diet. Now we're trying to find a balance to give her a healthy figure but with a little extra so if she does get sick she has a little something to start. Does that make sense?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 01/22/11 05:49 PM

Just found another growth, on her back hip. frown
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 01/22/11 08:55 PM

Oh no, I sure hope it's a lipoma?

I'm so sorry frown
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 01/22/11 09:25 PM

It looks just like the one on her chest. That one, still there, but is not raised anymore but you can find it by looking for the missing spot of hair. It went down when we started the benadryl/tagamet. I kept saying that I thought there was something on her rear but could never find it when I looked. Today I found a loose scab and when I pulled it away, I found the spot all goopy looking with a raised growth. She must have dug at it.

Well... mouthsealed

I can't believe it's been a year since this has all started. I do think the diet and drug regimen we've been following has had a big impact on her quality of life.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/15/11 03:22 PM

Just an update on Banshee...

Her growth on her face is slowing getting larger. I think she knocks it sometimes when she's scratching her face. The one on her chest is still flat and hasn't grown any.

She's on 100mg of Benadryl per day (I give her 100mg per meal when I feed her), 1 Tagament morning and night, RAW diet, Thyroid meds.

She is 11 years, 8 months old! Getting up there for a Boxer! We thought she wouldn't see last Christmas but our girl is happily snoozing on a pillow on the floor. smile
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/15/11 10:35 PM

Overall, that's a positive report! The alternative could have been much more grim frown

Is she getting any extra vitamin C? That might be good for her?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/15/11 11:05 PM

Yes, she gets added Vit C also. I think it's pretty positive. smile
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/16/11 01:42 AM

I thought she was getting vit C smile

I just looked back at the start date of the thread. It's really great how well she is doing. Great management, you've done wonderful for her thumbup
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/16/11 02:33 AM

Wow...almost 1 1/2 years! Did not realize it's been that long. smile I notice small things starting to get to her. I leave the bedroom door open during the day so the AC can cool this side of the house. I caught her laying in the bedroom under the AC. I don't think she can regulate her body temp as well as she should but I'm assuming that is old age (just like elderly people). She's still playful in her moments but she also seems a bit confused. She'll go stand by the door to go out even though she's just been out. It's like she doesn't realize it's only been a few minutes and we're just letting one of the other dogs out. Just regular old age issues.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/16/11 02:54 AM

With Banshee, in some ways, those senior moments are even more special, that she is here to have them wub
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/16/11 02:58 AM

I know! I was looking up the average life span of a boxer today. We're a couple years past that. wub
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/05/11 11:27 PM

~big sigh~ The spot on Banshee's face is the size of a pencil eraser.

This weekend she was acting very odd. She started Friday night with yelping when she got up. She started by scratching at the bedroom door, which she has never, ever done, which set Jax, who sleeps in the bedroom, off barking. Then she stood out here whining and crying, with Jax inside growling. So DH came out and slept on the couch so she would settle down. Very restless all weekend. I was gone all day Saturday but she was up with me at 5am and paced all day. When I got home at about 5pm, she never laid down. She was still wandering when I went to bed. Whatever is going on is causing her great discomfort. She must have been exhausted because I went looking for her Sunday morning fearing the worst but she was just sleeping in her normal spot in the hall between the kids room. Today she's been fairly normal. She even boxed with me I came home from shopping. smile

I've increased the benadryl to 100 mg twice a day. I thought DH was doing that all along but he's only been giving her 25mg. Once that stops working, we'll have to move on to prednisone but the doc said he didn't want to do that unless he had to. She has a check up next month for her yearly thyroid.

I think it's time we talk to the vet to make sure, if we have to, that they will come here to let her go. I refuse to take her to a place that she is terrified of and have that be her last experience. I hope this is not something that will be in our near future but I don't want to find out at the last minute.

I want a full blood panel done on her again and if that shows any abnormalities that would indicate cancer then it's time to have xrays done to see if there are any tumors. It's been well over a year since we found the growths so any time we've gotten has been a blessing.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/05/11 11:46 PM

Oh no.....

Any changes in digestion? Is the stomach bloated and firm or tender?

So hoping that this is something NOT related!

No close mountain lions she's freaking out about (okay, that one might be grasping at straws shocked )

Anything different at all????
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/05/11 11:49 PM

Nope...but we saw a bobcat in the back field by the horse. I don't think Red noticed...but the wood chuck he swatted at certainly did!

Nothing different other than age. She's not yelping anymore and seems more comfortable so not sure what was going on. She's so terrified of the vet that I hate to take her in unless it's an immediate emergency or prolonged. The problem is in determining when a possible prolonged might be an immediate emergency.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:25 AM

The reason I asked about a mountain lion, is because Indy's behaviour was similarly weird when one went through the neighborhood when she was young.

Tough position you are in...I hope that she doesn't show anymore weirdness crossedfingers
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:27 AM

I think the last mountain lion in PA was killed in the 1800s. frown Though there have been "spottings" in the last few years that have been denied by the game commission. But they denied bringing coyotes back in the area for many years so that will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:31 AM

I guess then she doesn't get freaked out about bobcats, skunks, etc? Last time Indy was like that at night, I let her to go out to the yard to the bathroom, and she came back in skunked frown

I dunno, just making up stuff here....
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:38 AM

No. And there is a skunk somewhere nearby. I learned that the hard way when I had the AC set to pull in outside air instead of recirc the air in the bedroom. I woke up at 5am with my eyes watering.

Maybe she just pulled something and that caused her to yelp. She has been acting squirrely for the last few months. Lunging and barking at the door when the kids come home. She gets clear to the door before she realizes it's them. She's restless. She goes and stands by the door even though she's just been out. When we let her out, she doesn't leave the porch and wants back in. I think her senses are going and she's just not as aware of what is going on around her.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
...Maybe she just pulled something and that caused her to yelp. She has been acting squirrely for the last few months. Lunging and barking at the door when the kids come home. She gets clear to the door before she realizes it's them. She's restless. She goes and stands by the door even though she's just been out. When we let her out, she doesn't leave the porch and wants back in. I think her senses are going and she's just not as aware of what is going on around her.


Getting old sucks hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:43 AM

That is does. Many hugs to you and Max also. I read your thread but I'm terrible with words so don't post. I just wanted you to know that I DO read it. hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:45 AM

Thanks Lam, I appreciate it. Not a lot to say, but the good thoughts do help!

Banshee and Max, our project dogs wub
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:48 AM

I'm thinking of trying to put her back on the curcumin. That is supposed to be more effective than an antihistamine. We're watching Sierra growth. If that is determined to be a mast cell then I'm going to call that vet in TN that injects the antihistamine around the growth to see what their thoughts are. My vet didn't want to do that with Banshee because he said doing that could cause a histamine reaction and we didn't want to risk that but Sierra is young and strong.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:52 AM

I really like quercitin, but it's controversial when used with the abx cipro, which max is on. For my allergies, I don't notice a difference with the curcumin, but I do with the quercitin.

The other thought, is that Hylands has a homeopathic remedy called Hayfever. It helps us both here a ton! I can't use it on Max right now because it interferes with what his homeopathic vet is doing - otherwise we would still both be using it, 3 tablets a day.

Nothing like trying to juggle multiple dog health issues!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 02:58 AM

Is that an antihistamine? If we're upping the benadryl then it's just a matter of time before her tolerance of it is to high for it to be affective.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:07 AM

quercitin will act as an antihistamine. I might try that instead of upping the benadryl, only because the benadryl can make a person/dog loopy or tired, and also interefere with their ability to pee (or is that only in males?)??
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:09 AM

I don't know! Never heard of that before! I'll look it up.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:12 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
I don't know! Never heard of that before! I'll look it up.


I know that was a concern when my dad was using it during chemo...along with the wobbly effect in older folks.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:14 AM

Does it have the same affect on dogs? I've given Jax 75mg before and didn't see much of a change. It was bedtime though so maybe there was and I just didn't notice. With their shorter digestive tracts does it move through their system faster?
Posted By: Barb E

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:15 AM

LaM - Just wanted you to know I've been following this but it's so outside my realm of knowledge/experience that I've not posted.

We have fingers and paws crossed in the E house for peace for all
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:15 AM

I don't know, maybe it's different, I don't have that much experience with it.

Max has platelet issues, and benadryl aggravates that in him - his gums get pale, so I don't use it much at all with him.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/11 03:18 AM

Thanks Barb. smile It's outside my realm too. It's sad that ppl have bred these dogs with bad genes and caused so many health problems. frown

Her bloodwork was good last year but that was shortly after we found the growths. I think she had a liver enzyme slightly elevated but nothing crazy. Most likely age related. We'll see what it is next month.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/19/11 12:18 AM

I finally found Banshee's bloodwork from last year!! I cleaned my computer area. DH is not thrilled with the amount of papers to burn! Her crea level was just above normal but the rest was really good. She's goes in next month for her yearly with thyroid, which I think she needs increased. Her noise leather is looking pretty rough and she's sleeping alot. The spot on the side of her face has increased over the last year and she has little skin tags popping out but we can't even find the spot on her chest. In a little over one month, Queen Banshee will be 12 years old. wub
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/19/11 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
I finally found Banshee's bloodwork from last year!!

rofl Sounds like me smile

You have done a great job with her, hope that the bloodwork is nothing surprising crossedfingers
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 02:29 AM

Wow...HAPPY 12TH BIRTHDAY Boobie Doo!
Posted By: LJsMom

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 11:16 AM

Happy Birthday Banshee!
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 11:17 AM

I just reread this whole thread - remarkable what you have tried and achieved and that has to have contributed to celebrating this birthday.

Happy Birthday, Banshee. congrats party
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 01:38 PM

Had her yearly exam. Blood work was good. Liver again slightly elevated and Doc thought due to RAW diet and age. Not concerned. Looking at pulling her teeth. She has horrible, rotten teeth that we didn't do anything with because we never thought we would get this far. But all organs are good, heart sounded great. No reason to think we will lose her anytime soon. Seems at this point, the greatest threat to her health is the rot and bacteria from her teeth.

Now...does anyone know where it can be done for less than $600 in the great white north of PA/NY here? I"m thinking about calling Cornell. Would an actual dog dentist be less expensive than a regular vet?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 05:04 PM

Know nothing about the teeth issue, but party yay, happy birthday!
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 05:27 PM

LAM, how many teeth are you talking here and which ones? The upper Canines for sure can be problematic because the roots are seated so deep into the jaw that just pulling will some times result in a broken jaw. When I had DeeDee's tooth extracted the Vet told me that. She said that she would try to pull the tooth, but if it didn't budge then she would cut the gum open and drill the roots out of the jaw. Needing stitches to close.

I would have to check back but one tooth extraction and seals on another tooth was less than $300 - Cheyenne had a molar taken out this year and it was $245.00 Prescreen blood panel, pain meds and ABX.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 09:16 PM

I think it's going to be most of them. They are truly disgusting. They've really gone downhill since starting RAW because her food is ground. She was having problems chewing her kibble prior to the change but there wasn't rot and smell that there is now. I never thought we would get her to the age that we would have to even consider this. If it costs $250 for one tooth then the $550-$700 quoted isn't a bad price. The quote included 10 teeth extractions at $150.

Physically, the only problem I've seen with her is she was extremely wobbly one day when she got up. It was like her back legs weren't working correctly. She is losing her vision. I see that cataract glaze over her eyes but it doesn't affect her physically so that is a non issue. The blood work and exam says she is one healthy 12 year old.
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 09:52 PM

$600 is a fair price if most of the teeth will be removed. By getting the teeth removed you might extend her life. As long as she is overall healthy I would go for it, if you leave them in and they start getting infected then you have that as an added problem.
Posted By: LJsMom

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/11 10:33 PM

I think one advantage to the doggie dentist is that they are typically faster so less anesthesia?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/23/11 03:59 AM

That's exactly what I"m thinking, Val. I think the main threat to her right now IS her teeth and I think they are already infected.

Thanks Joanne! I"ll look around and see what I find. If she's under for a shorter period of time then all the better.
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/23/11 04:07 AM

LAM, you need to get those out then and get her on some ABX for a couple of weeks. You might want to ask the Vet or Dentist about Preloading the ABX before Surgery. So they can start working on the infection, which if there are any roots that are infected will make extraction easier.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/23/11 04:51 PM

I wasn't there at the appointment. Now that you mention ABX, I'm surprised he didn't start her on that. Once I"m done cooking for tomorrow, and looking up a new dog food for my sister's smelly puppy, I'll look to see what dog dentists are around here. We should have plenty with Cornell not to far away.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 12/28/11 02:45 PM

Started on clindamycin yesterday and teeth come out on Thursday
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/08/12 06:00 PM

Just to update this for any people researching Mast Cells that may come across this thread.

Thursday, Banshee started limping so made a vet appointment for this morning. Last night, we found a large mass the size of my hand on her chest on the opposite side. Options discussed, Lyme's test done to rule out, xrays taken. Stunned at the size of the mass, I kept asking him how we could have missed that. Can they really grow that fast? The answer was Yes, they can. She was playing Wednesday morning at 6:30am without a care in the world.

The limp is coming from a disk in her back, impinging on the nerves much like a herniated disk would with us. It is completely unrelated to the mass. Funny how things work out. We saw the limp and made the appointment and then found the mass.

However the mass is large, firm and fast growing so he is confident this is a mast cell tumor. He's put her on prednisone to try to slow the growth and to help with the inflammation in her back. We discussed the balance of shutting down the histamines vs shutting down her immune system vs drugs to further damage her kidneys due to the CRF and he explained that is in the dosage and this is the best drug to address all the issues with the last amount of damage to the kidney...basically the lesser of all the evils. It's a 3 week regimen and we are to let him know the progress in 10 days. If it slows the growth, hopefully halts it at least temporarily, then we will do a maintenance dose the rest of her life. If she is still in pain for her back, we will have to do pain killers, probably tramadol. While this will be hard on her kidneys, at this point it's about quality of life.

I know, in my heart, this is the beginning of the end. It's truly the end of an era for us. Banshee has been there to watch my kids grow up, protect them when we were working and they were home by themselves, greet them at the door and love them. We are looking, best case scenario, a few months. Worst case, a few weeks. If the mass continues to grow it will impede her ability to walk on the other front leg. At this time, it is all about the mast cell and keeping her comfortable. He said they would come here when it's her time.

For anyone who may be going through something similar, Doc said that 13 was ancient for a Boxer and said the reason she has lived so long with quality was the changes we made in her diet, the additional supplement, and OTC drugs that gave us an additional 2 1/2 years with her that we never dreamed we would have.
Posted By: PositiveDog

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/08/12 08:08 PM

hugging I am so sorry, but I appreciate that you are using what you and Banshee have gone through to help educate others.

It is scary to think of the fast growth of the mass and shows us how important it is to regularly to feel all over our dogs for anything unusual.

So many people do not look into diet and supplements for their dogs and I think you have greatly to Banshee's long life and health.

I will be thinking of you and dear Banshee.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/08/12 09:35 PM

Aw, I am so sorry to hear about Banshee. I met a dog at the vet last week with multiple mast cell tumors. She was 13. She was on a homemade diet (for cancer) and also getting chemo. She was doing well when I saw her.

Enjoy the rest of your time with Banshee! hugging
Posted By: middleofnowhere

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/08/12 11:18 PM

Drat. Not the news we (especially you) had hoped for. May you get months more with her.
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/09/12 12:02 AM

grouphug

Cherish your time with Banshee, however long it may be.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/09/12 05:04 AM

I am really really sorry to hear this frown Thanks for updating us.

You have brought her so far, and put together such a great protocol for her, an amazing amount of bonus time. For a Boxer in particular, you know that the things you have done have made a huge difference.

I am guessing that you have her on some kind of liver support. I know that when I started the Liver Support Factors by Country Life, both dogs' creatinine values went down, so I know it's not harmful to the kidneys. Pred typically increases liver values.

I hope that she exceeds expectations, but whatever time is left, I think Johanna had the perfect word, cherish it hugging
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/09/12 09:19 AM

hugging
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/09/12 11:17 AM

hugging

I am so sorry to read this about Banshee - only your care has got her this far and to this amazing age for a Boxer, but of course twice as long would still not be long enough.

Best wishes! hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 01:19 AM

I greatly appreciate the kind words. It was reassuring to hear the vet say we had made the right choices with the diet and supplements. I"m not ready to throw in the towel yet. I am going to discuss cortisone shots directly into the mass that I've read about with Doc when we call at 10 days. That has been shown to reduce some masses. Her limp is almost gone so the prednisone helped that at least. As long as her quality of life is good and she's happy we'll continue to look for ways to help her.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 08:02 AM

I am so pleased the prednisone is helping with her limp - that must make her feel so much better hugging Keeping you both in my thoughts hugging
Posted By: Braverhund

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 11:08 AM

Good for you with her diet and supplement support! I am really pleased to hear that her limp is diminishing. Yes! You make the best choices that you can for your girl. Here's hoping for further improvement! crossedfingers
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 08:43 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with the excessive drinking which results in the peeing on the floor in Great Lake size puddles at night? I don't want to restrict her water. Not sure if that will harm her kidneys?

Daytime should not be an issue. DH is home at noon to let them out. Pee pads in the areas that she goes? Diapers? Really hate to do that. Afraid she'll rip it off or have skin irritation issues.
Posted By: middleofnowhere

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 09:26 PM

Piddle pads worked for the late Barker the Elder. She would help position(sp) her butt over the pad once she figured out what I wanted. (She didn't move much at night.)
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 10:36 PM

Thanks Middle. I'll get some. Poor girl can't even make it a couple hours. frown 5 more days till we start dropping the dosage.
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/10/12 10:55 PM

I second the piddle pads. I used them for Rica when she was becoming incontinent.
Posted By: middleofnowhere

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/11/12 04:04 AM

Best deal in piddlepads was at Walgreens -
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/11/12 06:33 AM

That pred can be tough frown
Posted By: Natalie559

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/11/12 01:12 PM

So sorry for the bad news! May your time together be good and memorable.
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/11/12 02:05 PM

I am sorry to hear about Banshee.

I would get those waterproof pads that protect mattresses the use the piddle pads on top of that. Or old towels if you don't mind doing large amounts of wash.

I know you will keep fighting for Banshee as long as she has a good quality of life. You are a great caring dog owner.

grouphug
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/11/12 02:29 PM

Thanks Val. I think we're just going to have to strategically place the piddle pads around the house and hope . You never know where she might pee at. I'll stop tonight to get some. Not sure if TSC or Walmart would be the best place to go. Don't think we have a Walgreen's around here.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/12/12 07:53 PM

Can prednisone make a mast cell tumor shrink? I know a MCT can go up and down but this is significantly smaller since Saturday when she started the pred.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/13/12 06:05 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Can prednisone make a mast cell tumor shrink?


Yes, absolutely. Remember, MCTs are largely (but not entirely) about histamine release, and pred greatly suppresses that.

Really pleased to hear that it sounds like there is a positive response.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/13/12 12:34 PM

Thanks Lisa. I was thrilled. We had to really feel for it last night. Now to get her on a maintenance dose that keeps it down. I can't believe it shrunk like that. Last Saturday I was sitting in a room crying while talking to the vet.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/14/12 02:55 AM

Sure do hope that this kicks it, or at least maintains. My long term vet has had some very good responses of MCTs to pred. I completely understand your response!

crossedfingers
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/14/12 02:08 PM

DH pointed out last night that the ugly growth on her face that has been there from the start of this, that originally sent us to the vet 2 1/2 yrs ago, and slowly gotten larger is shrinking as well.

She's a tough old bird. wub
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/14/12 03:13 PM

Great news! Hoping for continued progress!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/16/12 01:42 PM



Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/16/12 07:27 PM

smile
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 12:06 AM

wub
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 01:40 AM

Does anyone know why prednisone makes dogs pant, worse at night? It's a listed side affect but I can't find a definitive answer on why. My sister, RN, thinks it makes people feel hot so that might be why. But why is it worse at night?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 01:59 AM

It has something to do with increased cortisol/steroid in the body. Cushing's dogs will also pant. I do not know the technical details, probably has something to do with neurotransmitters, and IIRC, also related to the increased thirst.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 02:11 AM

I can't find anything on it other than it happens. Saw one blurb about increasing metabolism so increases thirst, hunger, restlessness and panting. A LOT of posts about prednisone and panting heavily and seems to be more common in the evening. Wonder if the prednisone is warring with the serotonin as the body naturally slows down at night.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 02:21 AM

I followed this up by bumping our pred thread - looks like it might have something to do with glucose, I'm not sure, hopefully someone will know more definitely. Always be watchful for pancreatitis while a dog is on pred.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 10:35 AM

wub She certainly does not look her age!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/17/12 05:53 PM

Thanks bianca. smile

Who's on first...that is a conversation I always feel I'm having with one particular lady at the vet's office. Sweet as can be but it's like pulling teeth to get the answer you need, just seems to have trouble following the plot. smile So, Banshee is on 1 pred per day, will start every other day this coming Saturday and has a recheck with the vet on the 26th. Said the panting will subside as the pred is decreased but I really didn't understand if it was only on the days she wasn't on it or in general.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/22/12 02:22 PM

Dropped the pred to (1) 20 mg per day last Saturday. Now to start every other day. The peeing on the floor has gotten a bit better but apparently we're starving her right to death. We can't leave anything on the table, even my dried tomatoes in a freezer bag. She's decided that the cat box is there for her own personal pleasure. We know this because she must have needed to rinse her mouth out and the evidence was left in the water dish. ahhh...busted....

Panting at night is not as severe but she's starting a very loud whining that only ends if she's on the couch and someone is touching her so I'm not sure if she's in distress/restless or if she's spoiled. A bit of both? Still curious as to why the panting is only at night.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Panting at night is not as severe but she's starting a very loud whining that only ends if she's on the couch and someone is touching her so I'm not sure if she's in distress/restless or if she's spoiled. A bit of both? Still curious as to why the panting is only at night.

It just sounds like she is having a tough time, and is comforted by someone with her. Maybe that's spoiled, though I don't think that way.

I do think that the night panting has something to do with the natural body rhythms that the drug interferes with, but would love to know the specific details if you ever learn them.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 08:55 AM

I remember when Moo was on prednisone and I had to give her a midnight feed to stop her whining all night for food.

I think Banshee deserves to be spoiled if that is what it is!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 01:36 PM

Lisa - that is on my list of questions. Along with how low a dosage can she be given and still keep the tumor in check. It just seems that 20 mg is high for a dog's size but seems to be the norm. And can we even play with the dosage at this point? If it's to low and the mass starts growing back, what damage does that do?

The only thing really bad that the pred is causing is that she's decided getting into Jax's dish while she are eating which she's never done before. She did this the other night and again this morning. Jax is pretty tolerant with her food but to have another dog walk up to her and start growling at her over HER food just isn't going to fly. frown So when I feed Jax, I just "stand guard" over her so she can eat in peace.

Bianca - what did you feed? Did you cut back other meals and create a third meal? Or give her something extra? The panting and whining generally start about 9pm, roughly 3 hours after she eats her dinner.

Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Lisa - that is on my list of questions. Along with how low a dosage can she be given and still keep the tumor in check. It just seems that 20 mg is high for a dog's size but seems to be the norm. And can we even play with the dosage at this point? If it's to low and the mass starts growing back, what damage does that do?

I supect the vet doesn't know the anwer about the pred, but would be happy to be wrong on that.

The other may questions not have answers, except in hindsight frown
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 05:39 PM

He may not. Seems if there was an answer that it would show up in a search somewhere. Maybe nobody has ever studied that aspect of it.

As far as the other, it probably will be a hindsight answer. However, he did say that a pred routine on another dog with tumors kept him alive with good quality for a year. Younger than Banshee so we aren't looking at a year but she continues to amaze me so who knows. Every time I think this is it, she rebounds. So I know he's done this before and we aren't in experimental territory so he might have some answers.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
He may not. Seems if there was an answer that it would show up in a search somewhere. Maybe nobody has ever studied that aspect of it.e some answers.

I suspect that some academic somewhere uinderstands the process.

I think I briefly mentioned somewhere at the beginning of this thread that my vet has had good luck with pred therapy - I think it's a standby for vets, which works very well in some cases, in the grand scheme of things. But now with the surge in chemo for dogs, it's often overlooked. In one case, my vet had complete reolution with surgery and pred. However, that was not a ystemic case like Banshee. So keeping this in control for a long time, would be great.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 06:17 PM

I think you did. Pred has been on the shelf for a long time to use a "last resort" once the diet/benadryl/tagamet could no longer take care of it. I had discussed it with the vet when we first took her in a couple years ago.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 06:58 PM

Makes sense.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/23/12 09:22 PM

There is a short thread going now on the tick list about problems with dropping the pred dose too low too quickly. Particularly being warned against is going from 20 mg per day to every other day. Of course, mileage may vary, but wanted to pass that along, that the body will rebound if tapered too quickly. This is more likely to happen the longer the dog or human was on pred. What the right protocol is, I have no clue.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/24/12 08:19 AM

That was when I started Moo on green beans to fill her up (I have always had to watch her weight - she's like me!) but I am pretty sure I gave her an extra small meal (she was on raw so maybe like a chicken drunstick) or a small portion of meat mixed with a half cup of beans. Just to get some peace at night or she would try and break into the cats room for their food.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/24/12 01:10 PM

Thanks! I"ll try that tonight. Woke up to the dishes that hadn't been washed all over the kitchen floor.
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/24/12 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Thanks! I"ll try that tonight. Woke up to the dishes that hadn't been washed all over the kitchen floor.


Ouch - that's no fun.

I used to have some problems with Rica getting into the trash when she was on pred for her hips. We kept a mouse trap dangling in front of the cabinet door as a deterrent for her. The trap wasn't set, but she had heard them go off and didn't like them. It did a better job of keeping her out of the trash than baby locks on the door. If she pulled the door hard enough with her paw, she could still get the door open.

I also had to build a box on stilts to keep their food in because she found a way to open the can I used to store their food in.

I've got no suggestions, but a lot of sympathy for trying to control the increased hunger with Banshee.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/24/12 02:45 PM

oh no....doors...that reminds me....I don't know if I shut the door to the laundry room where Sierra's food is kept this morning when I left...
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/25/12 07:36 AM

Oh heck, I hope you did shut the door!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/25/12 12:40 PM

Must be I did. smile I didn't hear about it when I got home. She is eating DD's make up so those doors all need to be shut. What could possibly be in eye shadow, blush and lip gloss that would even smell appetizing? I think we're going to have to crate her during the day just to keep her out of things that could hurt her. She's down to 1 pred every other day so not drinking and peeing excessively anymore. But that'll be fun. She has never been crated for an extended period of time.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/02/12 02:24 PM

Update - Currently on a maintenance dose of 10 mg every other day. Restlessness and panting are gone, extreme thirst and peeing is gone. Our appointment got rescheduled for tomorrow. The mass has not grown any more. I can feel it because I know where it's at. Her back does not seem to be bothering her.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/02/12 04:53 PM

Sounds like she is at a good doe for her. Forgot, is he on liver support?
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/02/12 05:37 PM

I hope she continues to do well. This is very encouraging!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/05/12 05:42 PM

What awesome news....At this point, I"m wondering if she ever had any MCT's over the last 3 years and whether we should be continuing the benadryl and tagamet.

Recheck on Wednesday. First, while examining Banshee, his response was "Wow, where is it?" He said because of the way the mass responded to the prednisone that it was NOT MCT. Said that the tumors that respond to pred are typically benign and have some weird names that he would have to look them up. He looked at the ugly on the side of her face, now that it has grown over more and said that looked more like a wart than a MCT. He said, "when you left here last time, I really did not know if this would work" and seemed a little stunned. Happy but really surprised.

Basically, we have a fairly healthy "ancient" Boxer with CRF that needs to have blood work redone in November and back issues. The plan is to stop the pred and see what happens. Will her limp come back? Will the mass grow again?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/12 04:19 AM

Really great news overall!

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
First, while examining Banshee, his response was "Wow, where is it?" He said because of the way the mass responded to the prednisone that it was NOT MCT. Said that the tumors that respond to pred are typically benign

I know that this is not entirely my vet's experience. But certainly hope it's true in Banshee's case. Am curiou what the name of these other things are.

I would be cautious, you probably can't wean too slowly.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/12 10:03 AM

That sounds really positive! Banshee must be a tough 'ole' broad smile
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/12 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa


I would be cautious, you probably can't wean too slowly.


She's been on the weaning dosage for almost a week longer so it should be fine. Right now it's a wait and see game. Does the mass come back? Does the back pain come back?

She's a tough ole bird...
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/12 07:02 PM

I'm guesing the back pain comes back, but may be more slowly. Mass, hope not.

Re: the weaning. I wasn't thinking so much about the pred in how it's typically weaned. I was thinking you have a dog with a long term immune response. You are weaning from the pred and talking about stopping the supplements. That's a lot to withdraw from for a dog that has been on things long term. Problem might not show up right away, may take awhile. My experience is if it comes back, it will be harder to control, so better to really gradually step down over months rather than weeks when talking about the whole thing together.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/12 10:53 PM

Another angle...

If there is an inflammatory component to these lumps, the tagamet, stimulating the immune system, may actually promote inflammation.

I guess I would tend to stop the tagamet first while maintaining pred, then wean pred, and wean off the quercitin last, or maybe knock it down to smaller or less frequent dosing.
Posted By: MSD

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/07/12 09:24 PM

LifeAsMe— wow, this sounds like amazing news, is that right? Hugs and best wishes,
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/08/12 01:15 PM

I'm not sure if it's amazing or not yet. smile Right now, it's a wait and see game. The pred is starting to work out of her system and while she's not limping, she has slowed considerably and walks like a old lady again. I hate pred...makes you feel great until it kills you...which is one reason the vet wants to try her off of it for a little while and ultimately, it will be our choice to put her back on it for a maintenance dosage. I would like to know the length of time a dog can be put on pred before the bad side affects start. Is it weeks? Months? Years?
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/08/12 01:28 PM

For what it's worth, Rica was on a maintenance dose of pred to help with her HD for 5 or 6 years. I think we gave it to her every 3 days for most of that time and it was a low dose. But I don't recall what the dose was.

She had the increased appetite, not much problem with excessive thirst/peeing and never really had any other effects that I know of.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/08/12 03:01 PM

Max was only on 2.5mg per day, for about 6(?) months, and his bloodwork showed no real movement from the pred. That's an awfully low dose, but it was enough to keep his back from hurting a lot.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/21/12 08:07 PM

Happy 13th Birthday, Banshee

party
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/21/12 09:37 PM

Happy birthday Banshee. Great to see you've made it to 13! party

And happy birthday, LifeasMe - I see the cake by your name.
Posted By: PositiveDog

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/12 02:04 AM

Happy Birthday to Banshee and to you! party
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/12 03:14 AM

Amazing! Happy Birthday to both of you!
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/12 03:49 AM

Happy Birthday Banshee (and you)! congrats
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/22/12 07:14 AM

so glad you made it to 13, hope you had a special day Banshee!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/24/12 09:54 PM

Banshee...Banshee...Bansheee...what can I say.

BW done today.

CREA is back in normal range of 1.2.

Doc said that happens. The CREA will level off, body makes adjustments and the CREA will drop back down.

BUN was high but he wasn't concerned because she had just eaten.
All other values in range.

He said she was one of the oldest Boxer they had ever had. There was a 14 yr old once but that's it. Tough ole bird.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/24/12 10:59 PM

Continued good news smile

I have heard that about the CREA too, and in some instances, lowered can be loss of kidney function in some ways, but it sounds like everything else is within good norms, so great news!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/24/12 11:45 PM

Yes, I think so, Lisa. My understanding of what he said wasn't that the kidney's gained back their lost function but that the body compensates somehow for the decreased function and that levels off, or decreases, the CREA. Last years CREA was 2.1 so it's down almost a full point.

They had trouble getting blood. Tech said her BP was probably low.

Love this vet...he is a traditional vet...not holistic at all. But when we discussed pain and anti-inflammatory for possible arthritis, he said to try the Zeel before we tried anything else. He said that would probably be less hard on her kidneys than any medicine.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/24/12 11:58 PM

That makes sense. And good for the vet! I have found the "mix" of a traditional vet that welcomes holistic stuff to usually work well for my dogs too.
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/25/12 01:40 AM

Thanks for the update - it is a good one in my opinion! smile penguin
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 12/29/12 03:52 AM

Has anyone had a senior that cries alot? Scott asked me if I thought she was in pain. But I don't think so. It seems she mostly does it right after he gets home and wants to eat. There are some times that she could be hurting and will lay there and cry. But she also gets "lost" at times as well so it could be part senility? I'm just not sure how to read this. Anyone have any opinions or experiences?
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 12/29/12 08:51 AM

I hope Bonnie sees this as she has had great success with Cholodin. I tried it for Molly (and her fear issues) and I gave my bottle to a lady with an elderly Westie. She reports great changes in his senility.

Does she seem worse at night? One of my cats is senile and gets lost (inside only cat) and I leave a light on at night and sometimes a talkback radio on quietly. This seems to help her. Just an idea anyway.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 12/29/12 01:41 PM

You told me about this, didn't you?! And I put it on my list of things to do and it never got done.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 12/29/12 07:33 PM

I've heard that the crying can be part of cognitive dysfunction. I would try the cholodin.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 01/01/13 11:09 PM

I forgot I had a bottle of Geri-Form here. It has as much, if not more, than the Cholodin except the Inositol
Minerals:
Zinc 10 mg > Cholodin
Selenium 20 mcg = Cholodin
Vitamins and Others:
Choline 40 mg = Cholodin
Inositol 25 mg < Cholodin
Vitamin E 15 IU >
Niacinamide 10 mg >

D-Pantothenic acid 10 mg >
Thiamine mononitrate 2 mg >
Riboflavin 2 mg >
Pyridoxine hydrochloride 1 mg = Additional
Vitamin A acetate 1,000 IU = Additional
Vitamin K 0.3 mg = Additional
Vitamin B12 10 mcg > Cholodin
Vitamin D3 80 IU = Additiona

Missing B6
Missing DL-Methionine


Cholodin
Guaranteed Analysis Per Tablet:
Minerals:
Zinc 7.2mg, Selenium 0.02mg
Vitamins and other:
DL-Methionine 55 mg
Riboflavin 1.5 mg
Choline 40 mg
Thiamine 1.5 mg
Inositol 40 mg
Panthothenic Acid 1 mg
Niacinamide 5 mg
Vitamin B6 1 mg
Vitamin E 5 IU
Vitamin B12 2.0 mcg
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 01/01/13 11:30 PM

So...just a quick look up on all this

DL-Methionine is an amino acid that helps with arthritis, detoxification and
catecholamines in the brain.

http://www.labexpress.com/DL-Methionine.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11764279
Quote:
Dysfunctions in catecholamine neurotransmission are implicated in some neurologic and neuropsychiatric disorders.

Which could affect long term memory functions if I'm reading the blurb right.

She gets a raw diet and since methionine is highest in meats, she is probably well over the "daily requirement". I'll have to check on that and add it into my spreadsheet.

The B6 should be added. She should be on a B Complex anyways for her kidneys and right now is only on B12.

Inositol - Looks like a very important ingredient
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9169302
Quote:
...A double-blind controlled crossover trial of 6 g of inositol daily vs. glucose for one month each was carried out in eleven Alzheimer patients, with on clearly significant therapeutic effects. ...These results suggest that inositol has therapeutic effects in the spectrum of illness responsive to serotonin selective re-uptake inhibitors, including depression, panic and OCD, and is not beneficial in schizophrenia, Alzheimer's ADDH, autism or ECT-induced cognitive impairment.


Dietary sources
http://www.livestrong.com/article/348579-natural-ways-to-increase-inositol-in-body/
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/12/13 03:36 AM

This thread was started over 3 years ago...how time flies.

Boo...13 1/2 years using her man as a pillow

Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/12/13 04:21 AM

wub What a sweet picture.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/27/13 01:02 AM

Banshee just had a seizure. frown Waiting for the vet to call back.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/27/13 01:30 AM

Oh--I hope she is ok!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/27/13 01:40 AM

She's up and moving. doesn't seem shaky but a little disoriented still. It lasted quite a while and she lost control of her bladder.

Vet said to keep her quiet, could be a one time fluke but given her age there is probably an underlying cause. I'm not going to dwell on that to much. Will make an appt for Friday with her regular vet.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/27/13 01:45 AM

Oh no, I'm so sorry! Hope that this is a one-time thing, for some weird reason.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 05/27/13 07:06 AM

frown I hope she doesn't have another, poor girl hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 12:22 AM

Her bloodwork was that of an 8-9 year old dog. CREA values within normal. BUN up one point from 6mth ago so kidneys are stable. All other organs are good. No lumps, bumps or pain. Rechecked thyroid and made small adjustment in her dosage. Diagnosis is probable brain tumor.

He said to keep her crated in a quiet, dim lit room, as we have been doing when we aren't home. He did not advise medicating for seizures at this point. First, because it could have just been a fluke seizure. Second, he said in his experience, seizure meds meant for epilepsy are not affective on seizures caused by tumors.

We discussed what to look for as a tumor increases in size. He said the seizures will occur closer together, her gait may be unstable (it already is) and she may tilt her head off to one side. At her age, there is no treatment.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 02:05 AM

I am so sorry. Having a had a dog that died from brain lesions, it's a very helpless feeling.

I hope that she surprises you further.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 03:29 AM

Oh, I'm so sorry. feelingblue
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 08:52 AM

hugging hugging
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 10:48 AM

I am sorry to read this possible diagnosis - like Lisa, I hope she suprises us again and it was just a one off! hugging
Posted By: arycrest

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 01:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Qyn
I am sorry to read this possible diagnosis - like Lisa, I hope she suprises us again and it was just a one off! hugging
grouphug grouphug grouphug I'll just second what Alison said!!! grouphug grouphug grouphug
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 02:06 PM

Thank you. Right now I'm researching...as always...the vet said phenobarb and pot. br. don't work for seizures caused by brain tumors. A vet online said he uses zonisamide for senior dogs with success and my vet had never heard of it. Obviously, it won't stop any tumor from growing but may give her a better quality of life. And of course supplements with tumor inhibiting properties...my brain will be fried by the end of the weekend.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 03:52 PM

While it is unclear if indy had a brain tumor (dad's oncologist said that the bloodwork was not consistent, and I believe it wa infectious based), these things helped her brain stuff...

DHA (algae based).

I also think that the doxy I had her on helped. I later did find this: http://www.mupnet.com/JOCM%203(5)%20147-153.pdf

I had never tried IP6 on her, because it was thought by heart researchers that the inositol was bad for her particular heart condition (current research at the time being thought about). It can reduce inflammation caused by TNF, I have never searched for it with brain tumors.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 09:26 PM

spent a good portion of the last two days on the 'net

Coconut oil - Not really understanding how this works with cancer yet but have seen it recommended in many places

Turmeric - mixed with egg yolk, fish oil for better absorption to shrink tumors

Tagamet - I never should have taken her off this. Will restart this week. Known to inhibit tumor growth.

If these work to suppress the growth of the tumor then it should alleviate the need for any anti-seizure meds and give her quality time for what time she has left.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 10:41 PM

I have my own confusions about coconut oil in what it actually does and doesn't do. Some cancers are affected by things like yeast and fungi (sp?), and coconut oil is supposed to help with that, but I don't know if there are further actions.

I would probably get some high quality curcumin rather than depend on turmeric, since the former is more concentrated. With fat for better absorption, but many of the curcumin's come with something in them to help with that. Somewhere in Diane's thread I may have some links, but you've probably found your own.

Yep, tagamet is one of the best things for this stuff.

It would be great if this all works.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 10:55 PM

It's a shame we can't get hemp oil with THC's as the studies on that is amazing.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 11:13 PM

Well, phooey.

Is Flax oil and cottage cheese useful here?
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/01/13 11:34 PM

What about medicinal mushrooms?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/02/13 12:01 AM

Those are on my list to review. Myco-Immun by Thorne Research? Anyone heard of it? It's a mixture of mushrooms.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/02/13 01:15 AM

My homeopathic vet uses (or used to use) the ones mentioned in the cancer sticky. I know that there are a lot of other good products out there, and Thorne is a good brand.

I've never been able to use the mushrooms for long in the dogs here because they had other autoimmune problems. Couldn't keep Indy on the tagamet for very long for the same reason.
Posted By: HeidiGSD

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/02/13 02:28 AM

I came across this recently but don't know anything about it or anyone that has used it. Would be great if it worked but I am always very skeptical I must admit. http://www.imyunityfordogs.com/
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/02/13 01:56 PM

Interesting. I wonder how that works on different cancers
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/02/13 02:07 PM

wow....100 mg per 1 kg of body weight = 3000 mg per day for a 65 lb dog. The pills are 400 mg each so 8 capsules per day. $95 every 8 days. That's pretty expensive.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/06/13 05:18 PM

Curcumin in an oil base, some mushroom blend and IP6. The IP6 and mushroom blend (4 different mushrooms) are out in the car. Will have to post the brand later. Discussed with health store owner and she said I could cut the dosage in half due to her weight and have 2 months worth. Have to pick up the tagamet tonight on the way home
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/07/13 03:11 PM

ok....

Enzymatic Cell Forte - Purple Mushroom Defense: 2 capsules per day
http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/products...om-Defense.aspx
"The Exclusive Purple PowerBlend™*:

Supports natural killer (NK) cell activity*
Helps defend against harmful free radicals*
Contains four health-promoting mushrooms, commonly known as Organic Agaricus, Organic Maitake, Organic Trametes (Turkey Tail) and Organic Reishi.
"

Enzymatic Cell Forte - IP-6 & Inositol
http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products...6-Inositol.aspx
"IP-6 and Inositol, as found in Cell Forté, delivers serious deep immune support and have been scientifically proven to increase natural killer cell activity by 58%.†**"

Now brand - Curcumin Softgels with 95% curcuminoids (450 mg) in a sunflower oil base for better absorption.

Her head is tilting more every day so I suspect whatever it is it's growing quickly. frown
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/07/13 03:48 PM

I don't have any advice to offer - just grouphug
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/07/13 03:52 PM

Thanks Johanna. smile
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/08/13 07:45 AM

I am sorry that her head is tilting more frown hugging

That is the brand of IP6 that I use for my dad and also haave here for emergencies. I trut it and it has shown results. You have a good plan, and you will know that you fought as much as you could fight, and hopefully you can buy more time.

In humans, they said active cancer, 8 capsules of IP6 a day. I think I would consider 4 a day for a boxer, away from food, but your gut instinct will probably tell you what seems best. I don't know if mushrooms are given away or witb food, or if it matters. I've always given curcumin with food - wonder if I looked that up, or maybe it says on the bottle.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 02:34 PM

I'm going to double all the dosages. We have nothing to lose by doing so. She's worse every day. The dosages listed above are for 1/2 the amount listed on the box, which would be for a 130 lb person, because of her weight.

Her boy came home from Ohio late last night and surprised us all. So glad he got home before we had to make that last phone call.

Chaos flattened her yesterday. She has no concept of where her body is compared to...space...so she jumped off the chair as Banshee walked by and knocked her over. We have to watch the other dogs very carefully because she's so unstable. There's a lot of holding collars and body blocking so they don't knock into her.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 07:01 PM

I'm so sorry she's getting worse. I understand how stressful that is with the other dogs: it was like that for Rafi with Chama and then with Cleo too. It's really stressful for everyone. hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 07:07 PM

This is a very stressful time, there are so many things to manage and feelings to deal with frown

I'm really glad her boy made it home, that is huge.

I agree with at least doubling everything, there is nothing to lose at this point. You two have fought hard and bought a lot of time. Be sure to find some time to spend with just her if you can.

When indy was older, and I didn't realize she was very sick at the time, LJsMom encouraged me to stop and smell the roses with her when he wanted. Literally, she loved roses and eating rosebuds... But we would sit together on the lawn at the vet clinic (huge lawn) when she just wanted to lay down and smell the air and enjoy being out. Walking from the chiro one day, she plopped on someone's yard and wouldn't move, so I just sat with her, for aa long time, before I got her to go. I really treasure those last times when it was just us, in very quiet moments. So don't forget to spend some of that time with her. I regret that I wasn't able to do that when she crashed, days before she died and I was working.

I know how hard this is, you are among many here hugging hugging

Posted By: Mary Jane

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 07:22 PM

I went back to last November to see that Banshee celebrated her lucky 13th birthday. There are so many good times you all shared. As you carefully manage dosages and ungainly dogs and loving family, smile at your girl. She loves you.

(I'm really sentimental)

take care,
Mary Jane
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 08:16 PM

oh the memories...so many and can't even go there right now or I'll cry.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/09/13 09:08 PM

hugging
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/10/13 01:26 AM

hugging Just read the entire thread. You have done everything you can to give her a winning chance and given her 2 1/2 more years because of that. Huge hugs.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/10/13 09:16 AM

hugging hugging
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/10/13 10:27 AM

hugging hugging grouphug
Posted By: PositiveDog

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/10/13 12:24 PM

Thinking of you. hugging
Posted By: Barb E

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/10/13 02:51 PM

hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/14/13 01:28 PM

Banshee had a very hard last couple of nights. She's gagging a lot and last night threw up white phlegm. It sounds like she is choking. Scott said she had a hard time eating last night. She had food all over and couldnt' seem to "catch" it. She still had appetite but had a hard time finding the food maybe? Not sure. I wasn't here and he often tends to make a mountain out of a molehill so will have to watch her this weekend. Someone had terrible diarrhea this morning on the sidewalk. I assume it was her but I don't see a note from Scott anywhere.

It's very hard to come to terms with her body still being healthy and this alien in her brain. To look at her, you see a healthy dog until she starts moving and her head is tilted, her gait is off and she starts to fall over.
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/14/13 01:44 PM

LAM, It does suck doesn't it. I understand because DeeDee looked so healthy but her brain was so messed up.

I don't know if this helps any but I always told her when her bad days out weighed the good days then I would release her from her demons. I started with looking at a month, then it was down to 1/2 month, then a week, then just days. When I saw x number of days in a row that were bad for her I knew it was time.

Hoping that Banshee has a few more good days left with you.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/14/13 10:32 PM

I am so sorry to hear Banshee is struggling. It is heartbreaking to see them deteriorate. I wish I would have the right words to say but I just don't know what to say. We love our babies so dearly and having to face something like this is never easy. I am truly sorry you, your family and Banshee have to go through this. Thinking of you and your precious Banshee hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/14/13 10:50 PM

LaM hugging

I don't know if it's the same, and I don't know if it helps to know. Maybe it helps wo determine when...

Indy followed the brain lesion/tumor progression. The main things - megasophagus develops as they start to lose control of the esophagus (this is part of the saliva issue frown ). Next, and last, the respiratory problems begin and they start losing control of being able to breath teary From my understanding aand experience, it isn't painful, but it's difficult.

My best thoughts are with you now hugging
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/13 07:27 AM

grouphug hugging I wish I had some great words to offer but I am thinking of you both hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/13 04:17 PM

I'm just going to double post this (also in Lexi's thread for Elvi) to keep all the info with Banshee's thread too.

As posted above, Banshee was gagging and throwing up. We stopped all supplements and that has ceased. I looked up all the ingredients of all the supplements and found some of the mushrooms and the IP6 can cause nausea. At this point, we are going to continue the curcumin, give her half the IP6 we were and stop the mushrooms. Below are the blurbs I found on sites

Benefits and dosages for Curcumin (keep this one on your list!!!)
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/turmeric-dogs/


Purple Mushroom Defense

Agaricus
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplement...ICUS%20MUSHROOM
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2011/192381/

Quote:
Adverse events were observed in 9 patients (12%). Most were digestive in nature such as nausea and diarrhea, and one patient developed a liver dysfunction-related food allergy, drug lymphocyte product. However, none of these adverse events occurred in a dose-dependent manner. This study shows that ABM does not cause problems in most patients within laboratory parameters at the dosages tested over 6 months.


Maitake
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplement...e=1&tabno=3

No known side effects

Trametes Versicolor
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplement...OLUS%20MUSHROOM

Quote:
Coriolus mushroom is possibly safe for most people. There have been no reported side effects so far. However, people who have received chemotherapy and a chemical called PSK (which is extracted from coriolus mushroom) have experienced nausea, low white blood cell counts, and liver problems. It is unclear if these side effects were due to the chemotherapy or PSK.


Reishi Antler
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplement...e=1&tabno=3
Quote:
Reishi mushroom is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people when used appropriately. It can cause some side effects including dryness of the mouth, throat, and nasal area along with itchiness, stomach upset, nosebleed, and bloody stools. Drinking reishi wine can cause a rash. Breathing in reishi spores can trigger allergies.


IP-6 & Inositol
Do not give with food. It can bind to the food and cause mineral deficiencies
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplement...vit_sideeffects
May cause nausea but that should go away once her body adjusts.
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmen...l-hexaphosphate
http://www.livestrong.com/article/390116-ip6-inositol-side-effects/
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/13 05:32 PM

Outstanding - so glad this was the supplements. Great find.

Is she stable otherwise?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/13 06:04 PM

I don't know. She's not eating right. She's still eating but instead of 2 minutes it's 10-15 and she's licking it instead of biting it. Not sure why. Maybe related to the supplements?

Reality is we have days with her left, maybe weeks but I don't think so. frown
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/15/13 07:40 PM

Reality bites frown always hoping to cheat it a bit more...

It does sound like her chewing is affected.
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/16/13 12:33 PM

frown hugging
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/16/13 04:19 PM

Thinking of you guys this morning and just wanted to give you a hugging
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/16/13 05:43 PM

hugging
Posted By: Mary Jane

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/16/13 06:18 PM

I know you know this but it doesn't hurt to say it out loud. Every minute is precious. In addition to everything you are thinking about, do what you have always done: love your girl.
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 09:18 AM

grouphug
Posted By: Braverhund

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 12:16 PM

hugging hugging hugging
Posted By: Barb E

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 01:40 PM

hugging and hugging
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 01:51 PM

grouphug Thinking of you guys and Banshee.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 03:43 PM

Thinking of you and Banshee. hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/17/13 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: LMS
Thinking of you and Banshee. hugging

Ditto hugging
Posted By: PositiveDog

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/18/13 12:40 AM

I read this once or twice a day and my heart aches for you.

Thinking of you and Banshee, also.

hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 04:27 PM

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I've been so bummed that I haven't wanted to come back to her thread. Our intention was to call the vet this week and schedule him to come to our house on Friday.

However...this girl blows my mind....

Since 6/1, we've gone from her playing with Jax to her barely able to walk with her head tilted so bad it's a wonder she wasn't walking in circle and having a terrible time eating with severe drooling to the last couple days where her eating is better, the head tilt is not noticeable and the drooling is less AND she's not stumbling and almost falling over.

While I believe the diagnosis of brain tumor is correct, I have to wonder if we missed an abscessed tooth (she does have a couple left) or ear infection because this all just does not make sense.
Posted By: Mary Jane

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 06:04 PM

I wish rollercoasters in health were as much fun as in amusement parks. I have no ideas but I understand that Banshee's latest rally in health sounds odd.

take care,

MJ
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 06:16 PM

Could the tumor be pressing on something some days and not others? Glad she's feeling a little better but the roller coaster stuff is no fun. Went through it for years with Cleo.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 07:25 PM

I have no idea. Do they grow and regress? I'm baffled by it. But this is Banshee. She never ceases to amaze me. I called and left a message for the doc. I looked up the symptoms for an abscess and she doesn't have any except the difficulty eating. And only one symptom related to ear infection, head tilting. But all her symptoms point to a brain tumor. Just seems odd that she would seem better the last couple of days. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe it.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
I have no idea. Do they grow and regress? I'm baffled by it. But this is Banshee. She never ceases to amaze me. I called and left a message for the doc. I looked up the symptoms for an abscess and she doesn't have any except the difficulty eating. And only one symptom related to ear infection, head tilting. But all her symptoms point to a brain tumor. Just seems odd that she would seem better the last couple of days. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe it.

Yes, mast cells are variable. I don't know about when you get to the stage that you are at, but, in general, they do. And maybe, with the changes and additions you have made, there is a response? Pretty amazing if this is the case.

In Boxers, they aren't supposed to be as aggressive as in other breeds, so, maybe, that gives you a better chance to affect a change.

WHATEVER is going on, if you can't find anything else that is wrong, keep doing what you are doing!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 07:44 PM

There is no way to know if it's a mast cell. If I had done a chest xray AND if anything showed up on it, that MIGHT indicate mast cell. There was so many ifs and mights that I didn't ask for one. The most common brain tumor in Boxers is a Glioma and the breed seems to be predisposed to brain tumors.

So I wait for the doc to call back to discuss. We currently aren't doing anything because we thought the supplements were causing the vomiting issues. Now that she's back to square 1 we should discuss starting them again one at a time.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 10:04 PM

well...more questions. smile Doc said what I described was vestibular disease. He described two scenarios:

1) brain tumor spreading with fingers causing bouts of vestibular disease. But he said with brain tumors it usually gets progressively worse without getting better.
2) inflammation around the vestibular nerve caused the seizure, had an episode of vestibular disease. May come back, may never happen again.

Every time we think this is it, she bounces back. He said "she's using up a lot of lives but we'll take them."

Very possible she has a brain tumor and this is unrelated also. I think she's taking lives off of me too! But I can't be anything but thrilled at this little come back.
Posted By: arycrest

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/19/13 10:13 PM

I don't have anything wise to contribute, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and Banshee, keeping both of you in my prayers!
grouphug hugging hugging grouphug
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/20/13 02:20 AM

LAM I am happy for you and Banshee. I hope she continues to improve. Their time is so short with us....
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/20/13 03:47 AM

hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/20/13 03:53 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
.... I think she's taking lives off of me too! But I can't be anything but thrilled at this little come back.

I understand completely!

I forgot about the brain tumors in Boxers.

Maybe she is part cat in disguise, hopefully she still has a few lives left crossedfingers
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/20/13 07:24 AM

Oh LAM I am so very happy to read this! What a tough cookie Banshee is hugging hugging Continuing to send all my positive thoughts.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 04:09 PM

Banshee continues to improve with eating. I was watching her this morning and think she's almost back to what she was. Not sleeping as much. Quite often she'll lay on the couch with her eyes open watching like she was and she's back up and a bit more active.

No reaction to the curcumin so far. Will add the IP6 back in soon. Not sure if we will add the mushrooms back in or not.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 04:24 PM

LAM, I am so glad she is improving. I wanted to ask...did you have an MRI done to see if she really does have a brain tumor? Just wondering. I know MRIs are very expensive, so that may not even be possible.

How much IP6 will you give her a day?

My continuous wishes for health and well being for precious Banshee.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 04:44 PM

noooo....she's almost 14 yrs old. Boxers rarely live past ten. I could spend thousands on diagnostics, easily, and still be at the same treatment as we're doing now, which really is nothing. If she were a 2 year old dog, I would have a different take on doing something like an MRI because there might be something medical that can be done for a younger dog that can't for a senior.

We could have done xrays to see if there was any tumors in her lungs but there were to many ifs and mights. If it was a secondary tumor there might be tumors in the chest that might indicate a secondary tumor in the brain causing a seizure...but again...it doesn't change the treatment.

So in the end, just like 3 years ago, we can only treat for what we think might be going on because to do diagnostics isn't feasible.

I'm going to start her at half the dosage on the bottle and adjust from there. I will wait a few more days until I see she's no longer drooling and she's eating like she was.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 04:45 PM

hugging
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 05:47 PM

grouphug Glad to hear that Banshee is doing better.
Posted By: Mary Jane

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 06:51 PM

Banshee is some girl dog! LAM keep on whatever it is you're doing-including loving your girl.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/21/13 11:19 PM

That does sound like vestibular disease. So glad she's feeling better!
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/22/13 09:21 AM

Glad to read she is doing better - she is an amazing dog!
Posted By: Shepherds

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/23/13 02:44 AM

Hi LAM, sorry to hear Banshee is having health issues, but so glad she is doing better.

I have just come through an episode of vestibular disease with my boy and hopefully that is what it is for Banshee and it is just a one off episode.

Just FYI, so you can compare, with Levi he did have issues eating for a few days after, he couldn't seem to chew, coordinate his mouth. I suspect that came from his severe dizziness/nausea that vestibular causes and I hand fed him for a few days. He also had bad diarrhea but that could have been the vet anti nausea med. Anything that involved him lowering his head was not good for him (he didnt even want to lay down on his side to sleep and had to be kinda propped up).

I think the worse thing though was the lack of control over his movement, he could barely take 4 steps without falling over and he would collapse or face plant and keeping him safe from the others was a challenge. His front legs he was moving out sideways and plonking down (if you can imagine like how we would be in the pitch black without being able to see, how we would move) while his rear end he had absolutely no strength and no idea where the hell his rear legs were.

It took a week to get over the absolute worst of it...then 6-8 weeks to get back to what he was (but he does have other health issues).

Below is a link which has some useful info on vestibular.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html

I hope Banshee is doing better again today...she is a beautiful girl and lovely to see the pictures of her in this thread.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/23/13 02:52 AM

We've let Banshee get away with whatever she wanted lately...we may have created a monster LOL

Begging....
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/23/13 07:30 AM

wub And why not! smile
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/23/13 01:24 PM

Exactly! Her nose was stuck pretty close to sons GF's plate the whole time. She had successfully begged from DH, me and my son. Son was done eating and running in and out of the house getting camping stuff while nagging his GF (above) to hurry up. GF was the only one left with food so she had all 4 dogs around her.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 12:34 PM

Running thru the house last night boxing at my heels....RUNNING! Whoa Boo, slow down there old girl! Haven't seen that in a very long time. The only difference so far is the curcumin so her body must have been full of inflammation and soreness.
Posted By: Barb E

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 01:46 PM

Thanks for the smiles this morning!!!!!
Posted By: Braverhund

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 01:56 PM

The boxing is good! Enthusiasm and feeling good. Yay, that's what we want for her! cheers
Posted By: Mary Jane

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 02:35 PM

RUNNING?!!!!!

you are some dog Banshee. You really keep your family on their toes.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 02:47 PM

I saw her jump up on the door to look outside yesterday too. My son looked at me funny and says "she does that" ummm...no babe, she does not, not anymore. He hasn't been around much the last 6 months. It took a bit of effort for her, she was stiff and I think she misjudged the distance from her back feet to the door but her balance was good. So her curcumin will stay at 2x day. Will discuss with Scott tonight whether to add in the IP6 and mushrooms. We have them for her to so might as well unless she's having any adverse reaction.
Posted By: Kayos

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 03:52 PM

Go Banshee!!! It sounds like she has really bounced back. Hope this continues for a good long spell. smile
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Running thru the house last night boxing at my heels....RUNNING! Whoa Boo, slow down there old girl! Haven't seen that in a very long time. The only difference so far is the curcumin so her body must have been full of inflammation and soreness.


thumbup Banshee - You go, girl
Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 04:42 PM

Way to go Banshee....
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/24/13 09:54 PM

wow this is fantastic news!!! So glad to hear. Smooches for Banshee from auntie Elvi.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/25/13 06:35 AM

that's pretty neat....
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/25/13 10:08 AM

Lovely to read! smile
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/13 01:13 PM

My husband needs a lesson in dog body language. I heard a bark and turned. He says "It's Banshee barking at Chaos. I don't know what her problem is. She just jumped on Chaos. STOP IT Banshee!" AS I watched for a second, I saw Banshee make an obvious move in an attempt to get Chaos to play with her. Good Grief! lol

So far so good for Boo. Still a bit of drooling but Shepherds post above stated 6-8 weeks before returning to normal.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/27/13 03:11 PM

Glad she is still doing good. Yay, Banshee!!
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/28/13 07:11 AM

Great that she is playing - hope this is "regular" vestibular disease rather than something that will vary - fingers crossed that this has nothing to do with a brain tumor crossedfingers Super that she is having such a response to the curcumin!
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/28/13 08:35 AM

Hehe good on Banshee!!!! So lovely to read she feels well enough to want to play!
Posted By: PositiveDog

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 06/28/13 10:59 AM

I love good news! Banshee playing is very good news! groovy
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/02/13 01:18 AM

Poor old Bansh. Some days she just is a bit lost. I came home today and she was standing on the couch barking. Unfortunately, she was facing the opposite way. I had to go get her and let her know I was on the other side of her and she was just barking at the wall.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/02/13 02:03 AM

Poor Banshee teary
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/02/13 05:11 AM

Man, getting old sucks. I'm just going to pretend it's that.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/02/13 02:09 PM

She's deaf. She sees all the other dogs moving so she just stands up and barks with no idea of what is really going on. I watched her for a full 30 seconds before making my way into the living room. I have seen her get lost in a corner a couple times over the last few weeks. Whether it's age of a tumor, I don't know. Every day she is well and still enjoying life is a blessing and we just take it as it comes.
Posted By: Braverhund

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/02/13 03:08 PM

I'm sending my good thoughts for Banshee today. And for you, too. Watching our dogs age is difficult. hugging
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/03/13 11:41 AM

hugging

I'm not even sure if I should mention it, but Bonnie (Positivedog) had suggested to me to try some Cholodin for Moo. Maybe worth looking at?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/03/13 12:53 PM

We did try it. It made no difference for her.
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/03/13 05:19 PM

hugging
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/15/13 08:50 AM

How is Banshee LAM?
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/25/13 01:03 AM

I missed this! She is doing well. No more seizures. We ran out of curcumin before I ordered more and I'm now confident that it is helping her. She's not as active without it. Thanks for asking! How is Cooper doing?
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/25/13 09:19 AM

Oh I am so glad to read this! Your girl is some kind of special wub Please give her a gentle smooch from me. Thank you, he is doing well smile
Posted By: TimberWolf

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/25/13 02:03 PM

LifeAsMe, I am so happy to hear your little girl is doing better. Amazing what the right supplements can do. May it continue to do so for her. hugging
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/26/13 10:39 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
I missed this! She is doing well. No more seizures. We ran out of curcumin before I ordered more and I'm now confident that it is helping her. She's not as active without it.

Great to hear about the curcumin!

I was just sharing your thread with someone, what a great job you have done with Banshee smile
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/26/13 10:57 PM

I can't believe this thread has almost 78,000 views. I am honored that so many people have followed her story. I hope others are gaining insight for their own dogs.
Posted By: Qyn

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 07/27/13 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
... I am honored that so many people have followed her story. I hope others are gaining insight for their own dogs.


That is a lovely and very thoughtful attitude - I am sure there are many who are following her story including me! hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 04:31 PM

I am exhausted trying to keep up...I don't even know how long this has been there

This is in the exact same spot that the mast cell tumor was removed when she was 6. It's about 1"

Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 04:37 PM

How absolutely discouraging, and I know that doesn't begin to describe it. And being in the same spota after so long, you'd think that the body would have dealt with it by now.

I'm sorry hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 05:41 PM

well...don't know what it is. But THIS looks more like a MCT than any other growth we've suspected. And it's huge, grape tomato size. I don't even know how we could have missed this except she's not big on belly rubs and it's by her back legs.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 06:26 PM

IT's easy to miss.

The MCT's I've seen have been more red, but I know they can look a variety of different ways, and I've also read that they can pop up quickly.

What is your current protocol? I guess I ask mostly out of curiousity, as I think you're already doing everything you can.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 07:16 PM

Same as before. Raw diet, Tagament, Curcumin. I see the bottle of tagamet is empty. don't know how long that has been as he said NOTHING to me about it. We had stopped the benadryl but I'll have him start that again.

She needs to have her thyroid rechecked so I'll make him take her in this week.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 07:21 PM

You can also use quercitin instead of the benadryl...

How are the other lympy areas, stable?
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 07:23 PM

Er, lumpy.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/01/13 07:37 PM

yes. stable.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/02/13 04:24 PM

That's very encouraging. I wonder how much of a chance there I that that is not a MCT. I understanding not wanting to aspirate, but not knowing will be really hard too!
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/02/13 05:34 PM

It could be anything. Scott looked at it last night and said it came on fast so it's not something we missed. That worries me.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/02/13 05:54 PM

You could try a green tea compress, and see if that has any effect? Some with MCTs have reported positive results from that...
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/06/13 11:45 PM

Basal cell tumor - he's not concerned. She's not a candidate for surgery but felt if it gets "black" or very large they may be able to remove it using a local and a laser.

BUN jumped to over 50. Recheck in 3 months and will look at diet change then if it's still high or climbing.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 09/07/13 05:58 AM

Changing BUN can also be heart...

VERY glad to hear the vet is not very concerned - I don't know anything about those. It's good to have an answer.
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/06/13 05:54 PM

frown Her balance is off again, her head is tilting. She really doesn't move around much and I'm not convinced she is comfortable. She whines at night, only at night, and most often if Scott is not on the couch with her. I don't know if it's cognitive or discomfort. I suspect cognitive. At this point, I'm not sure what else to do for her. Painkillers may be an option but will kill her kidneys quicker and I'm not sure she is in pain. If she is, then I would give them to her to maintain quality over quantity.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/07/13 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
frown Her balance is off again, her head is tilting. She really doesn't move around much and I'm not convinced she is comfortable. She whines at night, only at night, and most often if Scott is not on the couch with her. I don't know if it's cognitive or discomfort. I suspect cognitive. At this point, I'm not sure what else to do for her. Painkillers may be an option but will kill her kidneys quicker and I'm not sure she is in pain. If she is, then I would give them to her to maintain quality over quantity.


Oh boy, things just get tough, and sometimes there are no good choices hugging

If there is pain, DLPA releases the body's own endorphins, don't know if it would be helpful?

I know you tried the cholodin and it didn't help, right? I think when I was looking up Sundowner's when one of my folks was in the hospital and I came up with using Hypericum on them, but there are a lot of homeopathics out there for anxiety disorders, and I'm just not familiar enough with them.
Posted By: BowWowMeow

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/07/13 05:14 AM

Aw, so sorry she's not doing well. frown
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/07/13 08:17 AM

hugging frown
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/14/13 01:59 AM

It's definitely going with cognitive. She has spent the last hour whining. First while laying in the couch and then while standing in the middle of the room. Scott was downstairs on the phone with his brother. I couldn't take it anymore and told him to come upstairs. Not a peep! It's all about him at night.
Posted By: Woodreb

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/14/13 03:06 AM

grouphug
Posted By: bianca

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 10/14/13 06:45 AM

hugging
Posted By: LifeAsMe

Re: Mast Cell Tumors - 11/12/13 12:44 PM

Banshee is gone. teary

Can this thread please be closed?
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