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Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News

Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/24/13 02:54 PM

Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest with You? ABC News 11/22/13 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/veterinarian-honest-20987714 (Please copy & paste link into your browser if it doesn't work by clicking on it.)

"Pushing the Shots" at 4:31. Remember as you watch that the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Guidelines referenced in this news article show distemper, parvo & hepatitis vaccines have a proven MINIMUM duration of immunity of 7 years by challenge and up to 15 years serologically.

The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Guidelines http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm state on Page 18 that: “We now know that booster injections are of no value in dogs already immune, and immunity from distemper infection and vaccination lasts for a minimum of 7 years based on challenge studies and up to 15 years (a lifetime) based on antibody titer.” They further state that hepatitis and parvovirus vaccines have been proven to protect for a minimum of 7 years by challenge and up to 9 and 10 years based on antibody count.

Canine parvo type 2, distemper, adeno type 1 and parainfluenza: "These results suggest that the duration of serological response induced by modified-live vaccines against CPV-2, CDV, CAV-1 and CPiV...vaccines, is beyond 18 months and may extend up to 9 years. Accordingly, these vaccines may be considered for use in extended revaccination interval protocols as recommended by current canine vaccine guidelines." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23186088
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/24/13 08:06 PM

Very appropriate title! Thanks smile
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/24/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Very appropriate title! Thanks smile
Indeed! You're welcome.
Posted By: Kayos

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 01:11 PM

Love this! I do not use my local vet for vaccines as I refuse to pump them up very year. I go to Tulsa for titers and 3 year rabies vacs.
Posted By: shepnterrier

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Kris L. Christin
Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest with You? ABC News 11/22/13 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/veterinarian-honest-20987714 (Please copy & paste link into your browser if it doesn't work by clicking on it.)

In decades of pets and a new vet in each place I lived at, I've had only ONE vet clinic that did an unnecessary procedure. I left in disgust. There are a few bad apples in every lot. But I am confident that ALL others did only what was necessary and vaccinated as they thought was right at the time. My current vet respects my conservative stance on vax although she prefers to vax every three years. I have both my vets' cell phone numbers and can call them on a Sunday. I called only once when a foster dog had a seizure. She said watch him, bring him in only if he seizes again and especially if prolonged, otherwise it can wait.

One thing to keep in mind is the horrendous student debt that vet students accumulate, as much as medical students do. However, DMVs make much less than MDs. It does not justify doing unnecessary procedures of course, but it is something to keep in mind when considering vet bills. These people are not getting rich. And many donate their own work to foster and shelter pets. I only use vets who do, I guess that precludes the few bad apples from the start.

I am concerned though about the trend towards shareholder owned chains like VCA that do not only provide an income to its staff but also have to produce a profit for their shareholders. Vets there have to produce a certain amount of profit if they want to keep their job. These chains have standardized procedures that leave little room for a vet to not recommend vaccinating every three years.

A vet's comment on the ABC clip:
http://cestlavielsu.wordpress.com/2013/11/24/a-reaction-to-confessions-of-a-petvet/

Thanks for posting, interesting clip.
Posted By: shepnterrier

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Kris L. Christin

"Pushing the Shots" at 4:31. Remember as you watch that the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Guidelines referenced in this news article show distemper, parvo & hepatitis vaccines have a proven MINIMUM duration of immunity of 7 years by challenge and up to 15 years serologically.

How can we contribute to change this? How can we get to use the less costly 'Vacci Check' in house procedure instead of having titers done in a lab? PLease, any advice appreciated!

I was very excited about the 'Vacci Check' kit that allows vets to run a titer in house, at less cost than sending it in to a lab. It would be the solution for a multi pet household that has to keep costs in check. But I couldn't find a vet who uses them. I even called the manufacturer and asked them whether they can give me a list of vets who use them in my area, but all they suggested was sending a blood sample to them to run a titer at their lab instead of using the Vacci Check. Well, that's not what I wanted, and if so, it would make more sense to use a local lab instead of sending the sample across the country.

My vet said she has to buy a kit of twelve and use them within a year, and there isn't enough demand for it. I would think that the demand could be created though among a dozen clients. The large and famous Angell Memorial told me that they don't use Vacci Check. I fwd'ed their response to Vacci Check and I hope they contacted Angell about it.

Chip's vax were five years old, and I wanted to do a titer instead of just boosting. While I was still searching for Vacci Check, I had to board him at short notice, and the boarding place is in an area that had several parvo cases. So I did have him boosted. I wasn't happy about it.

Vacci Check, please!
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 06:13 PM

Maybe your vet can get the Titerchek kit (see below).


Here's the link for the 15 minute in-house titer tests for distemper and parvo: TiterChek Synbiotics
http://www.synbiotics.com/Products/CompanionAnimals/Canine/TiterCHEK-CDV-CPV-Distemper.html

From an article entitled, Ask Your Vet for TiterChek by Rhonad L. Rundle, 07/31/02 The Wall Street Journal
"Michael Dutton, a veterinarian and owner of Weare Animal Hospital in Weare, N.H., says the new TiterChek can help him and his clients determine which pets need a booster. ...... Dr. Dutton says he is charging clients $30 for the new in-office TiterChek test. That's less than half his $64 charge for the lab tests, which take 10 days and require mailing specimens overnight in ice packs. "

VACCICHECK http://biogal.co.il/vaccicheck-2/ : Here's the link to Dr. Schultz's Summary Results on his testing of VacciCheck for the USDA http://biogal.co.il/experts/
Posted By: Michelle

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 06:37 PM

The vet I use to take Kitana did the vaccinations regularly and also gave the rabies vaccine if I remember correctly in the side behind the front leg. If I am not mistakn they are not suppose to give it there anymore, it is suppose to be in the rear hip?? Coincidently Kit got a lump in that area, so did my moms black lab, I am going to be looking for a new vet.
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Michelle
Coincidently Kit got a lump in that area, so did my moms black lab, I am going to be looking for a new vet.
Keep a close eye on those lumps. My yellow lab, Meadow, developed a lump at the site of a rabies booster which wound up being mast cell cancer 3 months later.
Posted By: Michelle

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/25/13 07:24 PM



Unfortunately that is not possible, I lost Kit last Oct to Cancer, and my mom lost her black lab couple months before. frown I will definitely make sure that it does not happen again, never will I just listen to a Vet and let them do whatever because they said it is what is best, I will do my research and be informed!
Posted By: FurKids

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/26/13 11:17 AM

I LOVE this post! Thank you, Kris for sharing it!
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/26/13 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Michelle


Unfortunately that is not possible, I lost Kit last Oct to Cancer, and my mom lost her black lab couple months before. frown I will definitely make sure that it does not happen again, never will I just listen to a Vet and let them do whatever because they said it is what is best, I will do my research and be informed!
So sorry to hear that, I lost my Meadow to the mast cell cancer & he's the reason The Rabies Challenge Fund exists.
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/26/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: FurKids
I LOVE this post! Thank you, Kris for sharing it!
You're very welcome!
Posted By: SeanRescueMom

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/27/13 01:44 AM

Great post, just one more reason why each and every pet owner should be informed and do their research 'before' they walk in the door at the vet.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/27/13 01:53 AM

So, it seems the veterinary community is pretty upset with this report. I was just able to watch it. Unfortunately, particularly in many of these corporate places, and also other places, the upsale exists frown Indy's first vet was a vet like this, and he was in private practice; he was horrible and I didn't know better - learned the hard way. I think that most of us more experienced dog owners choose vets where we don't have to deal with this issue. The report does say that it isn't representative of the majority of vets, and that message may get lost.

Of course, the issue on the vaccines is huge and extremely valid, and deserves any and all the exposure that it can get.
Posted By: Selzer

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/27/13 05:43 AM

It seems to me, that many of the best owners out there, the ones that take the pup to the vet and follow through with everything, and go the extra mile to make sure they are doing the best thing for their dogs, well a lot of these owners tend to have a lot of problems with their dogs.

I know a lot of issues have a genetic component. But sometimes I wonder how much of a component that preventative medicine, vaccines and pesticides actually cause. The thing is, the owners are doing their very best for these dogs, and the veterinarian oath to do no harm, well, I really do not think they think they are doing harm. I wish more were open to consider it as a possibility though.

There are a lot of factors that are different these days that 20 or 30 years ago, and the life spans of dogs in general seem to be going down not up. You would think with all the excellent foods out there, and the elimination of a lot of diseases, that our dogs would be living longer and healthier lives. I don't see that happening though. Whether it is a more aggressive approach to pests, or an aggressive push to spay/neuter as early as possible, or over-vaccination, or even putting a dog under repeatedly for unnecessary dental work or toenail clipping.

I don't know, but people really do not want to deny a pup or dog the very best in vet care, and usually that means to do everything the vet recommends. Some, maybe most vets are very conscientious and do not use this power that they have to soak people for as much as they can. Maybe there are some of these out there. But, I think for the most part, the vets truly believe that the preventatives and the vaccines are overall safe, and the stuff they are recommending is in the dogs' best interests.

I think if the vets were just scoundrels, this would be a lot easier to manage. The AVMA could crack down on the scoundrels. Trying to chance protocols and move toward a less is more attitude might be something that is simply too difficult for some vets to even consider.
Posted By: JakodaCD OA

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/27/13 11:52 PM

thank goodness I have vets that do not push vacs, atleast with me:)

I try to be 'informed', and my vets are very open to anything I want or dont want to pump into my dogs.

I have to say, I haven't done vacs on my dogs in years..Rabies yes, it's law here. Nothing else. 3 of my gsd's lived until almost 14 years of age, one 9, (spondylosis), I have two aussies right now, who are 14 and 13, Masi(gsd)
is just a 'pup' at 5. While good genes may play a role in the longevity I've been blessed with, I honestly think its the lack of "pumping" stuff into them as well. I don't use tick/flea stuff, I haven't seen a flea in years.

I can't say I've had any long lasting illnesses, never had a dog with HD or ED.

I can truly say I appreciate my vets:)
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/28/13 12:00 AM

Lol, I thought about this thread as I was on hold today and the recording was talking about the importance of dentals and that most dogs by the age of 3 have evidence of peridontal disease....
Posted By: Kris L. Christin

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/28/13 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Lol, I thought about this thread as I was on hold today and the recording was talking about the importance of dentals and that most dogs by the age of 3 have evidence of peridontal disease....
Wow.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 11/28/13 05:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Kris L. Christin
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Lol, I thought about this thread as I was on hold today and the recording was talking about the importance of dentals and that most dogs by the age of 3 have evidence of peridontal disease....
Wow.

Yes, very timely I guess.

I frequent two VCA clinics, both were not-VCA when I first went to them. At the bottom of every receipt, there is a list of all possible vaccines and when the dog should have them. At the specialty clinic, they have some listed as not recommended at least. At the clinic where I heard this recording, they recommended all the vaccines be discussed with the vet. It sickens me actually.

The older vets do what they feel is best I'm sure, but they are paid partially based on the amount of paid services that they bring in, which I wish this report would have gone into. I have to wonder, vets straight of school, starting here as a first job, what this teaches many of them. I think some will have a good compass regardless, but a lot don't, and many are impressionable coming straight out.

I envy places that have vet practice choice that aren't corporate owned - we've lost the battle here. I hope someday to see this turn around.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 12/03/13 05:29 PM

Received this in the mail yesterday:



You know, I do think that dental issues are important and do not think that they should be minimized. Jazz came here at 6 months with more teeth stains than she has now - thank goodness I've been able to turn that around. I haven't been able to start her on raw bones for teeth cleaning because of her gut issues.

BUT, the fine print here of course is that their exam, understandably is under anesthesia (some holistic places have anesthesia free), and of course "vaccinations have to be up to date". What does that even mean? I suspect the vet makes the call, but this place does put a big OverDue after all Jazz's vaccines on the receipt after each and every visit, so I also expect the norm is annual vaccination.
Posted By: shepnterrier

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 12/10/13 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Kris L. Christin
Maybe your vet can get the Titerchek kit (see below).


Here's the link for the 15 minute in-house titer tests for distemper and parvo: TiterChek Synbiotics
http://www.synbiotics.com/Products/CompanionAnimals/Canine/TiterCHEK-CDV-CPV-Distemper.html

From an article entitled, Ask Your Vet for TiterChek by Rhonad L. Rundle, 07/31/02 The Wall Street Journal
"Michael Dutton, a veterinarian and owner of Weare Animal Hospital in Weare, N.H., says the new TiterChek can help him and his clients determine which pets need a booster. ...... Dr. Dutton says he is charging clients $30 for the new in-office TiterChek test. That's less than half his $64 charge for the lab tests, which take 10 days and require mailing specimens overnight in ice packs. "

VACCICHECK http://biogal.co.il/vaccicheck-2/ : Here's the link to Dr. Schultz's Summary Results on his testing of VacciCheck for the USDA http://biogal.co.il/experts/

Thank you! Looks like the TiterCHEK comes as a kit of 16 tests, even more than the 12 in the VacciCheck kit. My vet says she doesn't have the demand for it. It's also up to vets to create the demand, I would think. Sigh.
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 12/11/13 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: shepnterrier
.... My vet says she doesn't have the demand for it. It's also up to vets to create the demand, I would think. Sigh.

Exactly. They could easily educate clients, instead of doing the hard sell on vaccinations....
Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 01/02/14 09:13 AM

Great blog post on offering incentives for increasing the amount of Rx Pet food that is sold. I do think that it's a conflict of interest for vets to participate in programs like this, and thus unethical: http://truthaboutpetfood2.com/is-this-ethical



Posted By: MaxaLisa

Re: Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News - 03/15/14 11:35 PM

Annual dental cleanings under anesthesia....at what age might the anesthesia start affecting their brains?

After my dad woke up from a surgery and could not walk well, due to sudden progression of parkinson's, I chalked it all up to his chemo. The surgeon said the progression was most likely the anesthesia.

This study shows a significant risk in the elderly for dementia after anesthesia. These things may not be considered in the veterinary community...
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/261319.php
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