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Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Kris] #89289
10/02/10 02:50 AM
10/02/10 02:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
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Just popping in - hoping for a good night for you both.

Not sure if a diaper would smoosh? Would boxers work? Something with a maxi - pad? I am not sure. http://www.lovable-golden-retriever.com/canine-fecal-incontinence.html at the bottom of the article some tips and hints, products to get some ideas from: http://www.seniorpetproducts.com/catalog/dog-diapers-c251.html?gclid=CLud05CIs6QCFYs65Qod111NyA and more: http://handicappedpets.com/www/index.php/keep-pets-dry.html

Somehow this came up - IVDD: http://www.dachshund-dca.org/discbook.html

Take care!

Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #89298
10/02/10 03:10 AM
10/02/10 03:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 842
TMarie Offline
Old Hand
TMarie  Offline
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Posts: 842
I too am just checking in.

Lisa, you virtually held my hand with Jake, and again with my crew just recently. You have such a big heart, and are always willing to lend a hand and help others. Please know we are here for you, and we are hoping for the best.

Keep your strength and try and get some rest if you can.

{{hugs}}

Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: TMarie] #89305
10/02/10 03:24 AM
10/02/10 03:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
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Just checking in to let you know I'm thinking of you and Indy. Hope she's having a better evening and that you get some rest tonight. hugging


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: BowWowMeow] #89326
10/02/10 04:11 AM
10/02/10 04:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 817
Northwest OH
kaisersmom Offline
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kaisersmom  Offline
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Posts: 817
Northwest OH
Lisa -

That cervical spine x-ray is so different from how a human neck looks!! As someone else asked, is there a lateral view? That would give more information as far as narrowing of the disc spaces, etc.

Hope you and Indy have a peaceful weekend!


Pat

Marshall Dillon - 20 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: kaisersmom] #89333
10/02/10 05:10 AM
10/02/10 05:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #89349
10/02/10 05:46 AM
10/02/10 05:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Okay, just gave my first round of SubQ fluids, yesterday we did it at the vet clinic.

I am beginning to be convinced that this is a disk issue. It's not something that just started, there were subtle signs that are greatly exaggerated now - shuffle steps in the rear, shaking and funny wrist stuff in the front. Jean, that link looks really interesting, but my eyes are so blurry, that when I got to the good part, I just couldn't comprehend any of the words. I am tired, and I have been crying a lot.

If things don't change, she will starve to death. I am frightened to fight her with the syringe, because I don't want to jam the neck any more than it is. Today she is not eating. I think they jammed up her neck more when they did the xrays and ultrasound - I can't imagine that it wouldn't. And that slam I did with her the other day probably didn't help either. Her regular chiro is meeting us tomorrow morning for a tune up.

I stopped by the health food store on the way home and picked up a few liquid things, including liver support and some b-vitamins, eye drops, etc. I think she told me no more drugs, but she might have to compromise on some of that. She either needs pred or metacam, both a difficult choice at this venture, but I'm going with the metacam.

I have been trying to find out information on that xray. No one seems concerned about that area. I called the clinic and the radiologist report didn't even mention it (did he even see it then?), and had a vet there pull up the xray and look for herself, she was not concerned. The newer chiro that adjusted her didn't see a concern with it. I don't know what her regular chiro thinks, I don't think she has seen it. The homeopathic vet is concerned about the same area as me, the C2-C3 area where it is rotated.

I went to the premiere ER clinic in town, with a print out of that xray, and a disk of all the xrays, wanting a consult with a doctor/neuro person. They wouldn't talk to me without Indy there. But I was very insistent, and they found a very nice and helpful neurology tech to talk to me. It may or may not be a problem, since it's a 3D image and some pieces are hard to visualize. For surgery, they would require the MRI, and with Indy's age and heart condition, and now especially the esophagus problem, she would be a very poor candidate for surgery, even if it were a disk, or a brain tumor. She did suggest that we test for myasthenia gravis, which I will bring up with the regular vet on Tuesday. That was probably one of the most earnest conversations that I have had since this whole thing has started with someone in the veterinary community, and it was with a great tech, and it was free smile

I gave her her new homeopathic remedy. One dose of Belladona 30c, which she has had before and done well with.

Can the fluids help move things through the colon? She is finally starting to move stuff - she barks and wants to be taken out, what a clean girl wub They are small little things, I would be happy to let her go where she is, in her pen on the waterproof pads, but then she keeps barking, and her throat is already sore, and she jerks her neck.

Her head is severely shrunk and she is scary looking. I don't want her to starve to death before we know what we are doing. Today was a really hard day at work frown

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 10/02/10 05:49 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: scott54] #89354
10/02/10 05:52 AM
10/02/10 05:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: scott54
Hey Lisa T:

I am heart broken to hear about your Indy. I was wondering when I didn't hear back from you what happened . . . Jakoda sent me your link. I truly wish you the best with her! You have been so AWESOME to Enya, I truly hope a little karma can go back to you for all that you did to help my family with our sick pup. Please take care of yourself and your best friend, and know that you have Enya and her family praying for you and Indy.

Peace . . . Scott (fatboy4ever)


Scott, so glad to see you over here, and thank you so much for the good wishes.

(Just so folks know, Scott is on the old board, his Enya fighting a dicey battle of her own: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/preparing-say-good-bye/142129-my-dear-friend.html )


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: BowWowMeow] #89356
10/02/10 05:56 AM
10/02/10 05:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Have you ever given fluids before? It is much better if you warm then a little, much more comfortable for the animal. A narrower gauge needle also makes things easier, especially if she is very dehydrated (as the skin gets super tough when they're dehydrated). Do you know the tests to do for hydration? One is to pinch and twist the skin and it should bounce right back (do it on yourself to see the normal response) and the other is to touch their gums and see if they're tacky. I apologize if you already know this...just putting it out there since I know you're really tired. Since she has a heart condition it's very important that she gets just enough fluids without overloading her. How much did they tell you to give her at a time? For a cat it's 10ml/pound but it may be different for an animal with a heart condition.

Can you rig something to keep her upright to feed her? Or prop her up somehow?



I can't prop her up, she's too fragile at this point, unless I'm there to hold her. I drape her across my lap when feeding, or against me, so she is at least angled the right way.

No, I've never done fluids. The acu vet said 300 (ml's?), but the vet place said 500 ml per day or 250 twice a day. I was thinking 250 once a day - she was peeing all over the place when I got home today, and that was with 250 ml last night. They gave me heavier guage needles, oops. Good idea about the warming.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #89358
10/02/10 06:11 AM
10/02/10 06:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
SubQs definitely help with constipation because dehydration and constipation go hand in hand (or paw in paw). They also have electrolytes which usually perks the animal up, although if she's really dehydrated it will take more SubQs to perk her up. You see on the bag where there is another port? You can get B-vitamins and I think some other stuff to give with the SubQs to help get some vitamins into her. It's too bad a feeding tube isn't an option because it sounds like that would make things so much easier.

I understand how tired you are and how traumatic all of this is for you and for your 4 leggeds. Hang in there--you're doing a great job with Indy and she undoubtedly loves you very much.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Kayos] #89361
10/02/10 06:16 AM
10/02/10 06:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Kayos
I have absolutely no advice to offer. I am thankful that Indy's condition may be recoverable and that the vets are at least looking to the future and not giving up on her. I hope the fluids, feeding and meds help her.

It just amazes me how fast they can slide but they can bounce back too. Bounce back Indy so you can challenge Max for the title 'bounce back kid'.


I hope today is a better day.


That would be nice smile


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: BowWowMeow] #89362
10/02/10 06:16 AM
10/02/10 06:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
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Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
Grrr...keep losing the internet signal.

250ml twice a day sounds about right. they do pee a ton from the SubQs but that is excellent because it is helping move the toxins out of the body. How is her hydration today? How much does she weigh now?


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: kaisersmom] #89366
10/02/10 06:24 AM
10/02/10 06:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Misc thoughts...

Sjogern's Syndrome....not a bad thought.

years ago (approximately 11 years ago in fact), a vet told me that I could test and test and test, but we already knew what happened to her - she was damaged by her vaccines which created a neuromuscular disorder. It doesn't appear to have a name, but it's the same as all those syndromes. She has required uber nutrition and supplementation to get her thus far, and without that this past week, she is even spiraling faster. I was telling my sister tonight, it isn't supposed to end this way (hi sis frown )


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: BowWowMeow] #89369
10/02/10 06:28 AM
10/02/10 06:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
Grrr...keep losing the internet signal.

250ml twice a day sounds about right. they do pee a ton from the SubQs but that is excellent because it is helping move the toxins out of the body. How is her hydration today? How much does she weigh now?


I don't know how much she weighs now. Saturday she was 34 pounds, but that seems like a long time ago. I don't know how to check for hydration - the skin doesn't seem much different, and her profuse salivation makes it difficult to check the gums. With the heart, I'm not sure if I should do 250 once or twice a day, or, say 300 ml once day.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #89373
10/02/10 06:35 AM
10/02/10 06:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
I know that for cats with CRF and heart conditions they do less at a time so as to minimize the risk of fluid build-up.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #89375
10/02/10 06:39 AM
10/02/10 06:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
Oddly enough I attended a lecture for my job last week about Sjogern's Syndrome. One of the main researchers is at my university and her presentation was part of Gender Week events. The symptoms sounded very different, although she was talking about people and not dogs.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
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