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Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Kirchnel] #100368
11/01/10 09:21 PM
11/01/10 09:21 PM
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NE PA
GrandJan Offline
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Is this pre-packaged? Who makes it? I don't understand who determined the ratio...

You are certainly not ignorant nono - you are leaps and bounds ahead by asking questions. smile


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan] #100473
11/02/10 01:59 AM
11/02/10 01:59 AM
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrandJan
That's too much meat vs. bone, IMO. You should be 60% RMBs/35% MM/5% OM, or at least 50/45/5. How are her poops?


While I'm not a raw feeder myself, I've seen this discussion of the % bone in the pre-packaged, ground raw (like Primal) on the other board. When you, as a DIY raw feeder, talk about 50% RMB, most of the time you are talking about something that is not 100% bone. A chicken leg quarter makes a good RMB. Lauri brought this up - that leg quarter is really only about 25% bone, you call it a RMB because it is meat and bone. When you take in to account the meat in the RMB, the MM and OM, the actual amount of just bone in the diet is really around 12%, when feeding 50/45/5 RMB/MM/OM. So the amount of bone (as just bone)in the pre-packaged ground raw diet is about right. Granted it might not be exactly optimal for this particular dog, but it's not too far off.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb] #100509
11/02/10 04:08 AM
11/02/10 04:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14
northern NJ
Kirchnel Offline
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Kirchnel  Offline
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northern NJ
Yes it is prepackaged in the ratios above.

Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb] #100624
11/02/10 06:37 PM
11/02/10 06:37 PM
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NE PA
GrandJan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
When you, as a DIY raw feeder, talk about 50% RMB, most of the time you are talking about something that is not 100% bone. A chicken leg quarter makes a good RMB. Lauri brought this up - that leg quarter is really only about 25% bone, you call it a RMB because it is meat and bone.


Actually I don't call a leg quarter an RMB. It has way too much meat on it to be an RMB. It is basically all inclusive, IMO. The same for a whole chicken breast. Also, quarters are not my choice, but many dogs do very well on them. My dogs get them occasionally, but then they are their entire meal (with perhaps a smidgen of OM added).

My RMBs are necks, backs and wings - almost entirely bones, and I must then add in the 35% MM and 5% OM.

If premade/premeasured is balanced another way, then I apologize for any of my information because I'm not really up to date on this type of raw feeding. smile


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan] #100634
11/02/10 08:08 PM
11/02/10 08:08 PM
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
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Not trying to be difficult - just trying to understand. I understand that a leg quarter has a considerable amount of meat on it, but if the leg quarter is a combination of meat and bone isn't it by definition a RMB because it does have bone in it that you are feeding? A MM has no bone at all - like beef heart.

Here's the example that Lauri & the Gang gave:

"Here's where the math gets tricky.

In an ideal raw diet (as per ME ), you would feed 45-50% RMB. Raw MEATY Bones. Like ... let's say, a leg quarter.

In that leg quarter the ACTUAL bone content should ideally be around 25% bone.

So, let's do MORE math using the example I made above:


Quote:
Quote:50% RMBs (or a premade with bone): 18 ounces
45% (approximately) Muscle meat (or a premade WITHOUT bone): 16.5 ounces
5% (approx) Organ meat: 1.5 ounce

So, if 25% of the 18 ounces is ACTUAL bone, that is 4.5 ounces.

The total amount fed per day is 36 ounces.

4.5 ounces is 12.5% of 36 ounces.

So, you are feeding a diet with 12.5% ACTUAL bone content.

A premade with 8% bone content isn't off by that much."

from http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/126386-feeding-premade-raw-weight-2.html

I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that DIY raw feeders talk about the RMB percentage, but ignore the fact that whatever that item is, it isn't 100% bone in most cases. (And the people like me that try to work out what that means mathematically get confused about how much actual bone is being fed.) The pre-packaged stuff has broken it down as meat/bone rather than MM/RMB. You generally get to the same place in terms of the amount of actual bone in the diet, but the terms used are different.

And I know, because I've looked, that not all pre-made even gives you the percentages. I think the only one I found that was that specific was Primal.

Last edited by Woodreb; 11/02/10 08:11 PM. Reason: added a thought

Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Woodreb] #100635
11/02/10 08:13 PM
11/02/10 08:13 PM
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LifeAsMe Offline
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My understanding is the 80%/10%/10% is basically the same thing as 50%/45%/5%. It's really how you consider the bone. If the meal consists of chicken quarter, MM and OM, then the RMB would be about 75%, 20% MM and 5% OM taking into consideration that the chicken quarter has more meat on it then a poultry neck or back.

We're really all talking the same numbers, just using a different method of calculating it.

Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: LifeAsMe] #100638
11/02/10 08:27 PM
11/02/10 08:27 PM
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NE PA
GrandJan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
I understand that a leg quarter has a considerable amount of meat on it, but if the leg quarter is a combination of meat and bone isn't it by definition a RMB because it does have bone in it that you are feeding? A MM has no bone at all - like beef heart.

You are probably technically right, but for my own thinking, it has too much meat on it to be just an RMB. I feed it as an RMB and MM. Remember, this is just my own way of doing things as even after 5+ years, I still weigh each meal! My head computes bones as bones (little to no meat) and meat as meat. silly

Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
We're really all talking the same numbers, just using a different method of calculating it.

Yep, I think I'm getting it now, but… boy, I sure do like my easy way! laugh


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan] #100646
11/02/10 08:55 PM
11/02/10 08:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,463
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
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Belive me, I think it is easier your way - it makes more sense to me than calling something that's mostly meat a bone (especially a chicken breast, which is even less bone than the leg quarter). laugh


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GrandJan] #130199
02/03/11 04:58 AM
02/03/11 04:58 AM
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mjbgsd Offline
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Akbar before raw, under a year



Akbar after; on raw for 7 months, 18 months old




Akbar RN CGC 8
Isa BH CD RAE CGC TDI 12

Cody RIP 2003-2012
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: mjbgsd] #130221
02/03/11 05:20 AM
02/03/11 05:20 AM
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Massachusetts
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thumbup thumbup thumbup goodjob cheers Akbar looks phenomenal! I wish that we had an applause smiley. You have done a remarkable job, Missy! It takes dedication to feed your dog raw. Way to go! Akbar shines with radiant good health! wub


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Grimm - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Braverhund] #147644
04/09/11 04:11 AM
04/09/11 04:11 AM
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NY
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Akbar looks great!
Now that Mason is on RAW, I can't wait to see the changes!


~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
Re: Mason - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GSDTrain] #176190
08/28/11 05:29 AM
08/28/11 05:29 AM
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NY
GSDTrain Offline
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So, I have been waiting to post here and I finally feel that I can! *Patti, I hope you see this!*
Mason has been on raw for 5 months now and is doing better than I ever could have imagined!

Before raw- Mason was extremly itchy, his coat was thin & brittle. He shed excessively, he had bald spots on his legs and even had hair loss on his ears.

After raw- Mason's itching is almost non-existent now, his coat filled in and is so soft and full, he doesn't smell, his skin is in great condition. He has better pigment than before (he is not as washed out!) and the list goes on! (Please keep in mind, Mason suffers from allergies! Most people don't believe me when I tell them smile You could tell before, but not now! ) He has filled out too!



Yes, that is the same dog! wub smile


~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
Re: Mason - Before and After raw diet change [Re: GSDTrain] #176218
08/28/11 12:50 PM
08/28/11 12:50 PM
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north of Dayton, OH
Leslie&Chico Offline
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north of Dayton, OH
WOW!! What an incredible transformation. He looks sooooooo much more handsome now wub


Leslie
Chico 10/13/2007
Cats
Zeke
Gus
C.C.
Tobi
GBNF
Skeezix
Dixie
Re: Mason - Before and After raw diet change [Re: Leslie&Chico] #176857
08/31/11 03:06 AM
08/31/11 03:06 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Northern CA
Ashley, he looks GREAT!!!!

The diet change (and the antibiotics), did a great job thumbup

I hear that Patti is without power and internet, so you'll have to be sure to point this out to her when she gets back.

Happy he is doing so well!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mason - Before and After raw diet change [Re: MaxaLisa] #176906
08/31/11 06:45 AM
08/31/11 06:45 AM
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NY
GSDTrain Offline
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Thank you Leslie and Lisa!


~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
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