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Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #90561
10/05/10 05:50 AM
10/05/10 05:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 121
T
Tri-Shepherd Offline
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Tri-Shepherd  Offline
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T
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 121
They use cameras on It's Me or the Dog all the time a Webcam should work for that.

I am going to jump on the crazy train also. My Trooper died on October 31, 2003 and still to this day there are times I sit on the back porch staring up at the stars and talk to him. I have wondered and worried I did too little for Trooper ever since we had him put down. I never gave him pain medication. He went from slight arthritis to being unable to stand from the pain in a few weeks. I don't know if pain medication would have helped him or not. I do know that at that time I had a 7 year old and 4 year old and a job that did not allow for many extras. I feel guilty I didn't try harder to keep him alive and pain free for longer. But I also feel strongly that Trooper being the kind of dog he was would have never showed pain if he could help it. At the point he showed pain I am not sure pain medicines would have helped.

Huge hug to you Lisa and Max. We are all here for you. It's never easy and losing Indy so fast....I can't imagine. Hang in there! I understand the researching to understand what happened, I am the same way. If I understand it I can move on with grieving also.

Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Tri-Shepherd] #90567
10/05/10 07:00 AM
10/05/10 07:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 637
Indianapolis, Indiana
Lin Offline
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Lin  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 637
Indianapolis, Indiana
Tessa's separation anxiety was a huge problem after Logan passed away. I could not contain her... Anywhere. I know that on top of her normal separation anxiety she was grieving, so it was much worse. At work I would sometimes put her up in a horse stall or somewhere for periods while I was teaching. But she got out of everywhere, she must have scaled the wall to get out of the locked stall.

I hope you and Max feel better soon *hugs*


Sorry dude. I can't live up to your expectations all of the time. Sometimes I'm going drink six miniature bottles of rum and then draw horses. That's just the way the world works.- Allie Brosh
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Lin] #90574
10/05/10 08:00 AM
10/05/10 08:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
This is totally not logical and I would never let it affect Max, but I wonder if anyone else has felt guilty of all things, for continuing to care for the remaining pet? I feel so bad walking him sometimes, because I feel like it's not fair that my girl isn't there and doesn't get her walk. It's downright silly, but even feeding him, because I feel like Indy is not getting fed. I have to force myslef to do these things to some degree, they are some of the hardest things that must be tended to throughout the day. Yet at the same time. I enjoy doing these things for him because they mean so much to him. He acts like a young dog when he glimpses normality and activity involving him.



I wonder if I am having trouble wrapping my brain around this brain tumor thing as a matter of ego. To accept that this was a huge medical issue, and I missed it in the one being that I was so bonded to? I saw many of the signs and acknowledged them, but each one of them overlapped with one of her other conditions. So this isn't even a realistic debate, which means it's an emotional or egotistical one. I think about her having a brain tumor, and my mind just won't go there. How can a person be in such denial over something that appears so likely? I thought most of her symptoms were her heart, but I was wrong. I thought maybe infection, but that wouldn't account for what appears to be the force that was rotating her spine. I could see and feel the difference in her neck too. Who knew it must have been displaced by the tumor, causing a rippling response down her neck. In the end, two radiologist, a couple vets and a chiro looked at those xrays and looking at all views, that neck was not what the problem was. She was not in pain - she was not getting the signals from her brain to feel that pain.


When Indy's broken tendon in her heart was found in 8/09, I thought she had only months left. Jean found an article that showed that dogs could live longer with such a thing. I am proud that with her supplement program her heart was doing so well just over a year after that.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #90575
10/05/10 09:40 AM
10/05/10 09:40 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Lisa I am sending you hugging and for Max too.

Add me to the crazy list, I still talk to mine and they both passed 6 years ago. Sometimes I find expressions almost, in Molly that I am sure come from Holly ( don't ask about the name, long convoluted story). And I don't know how to explain it without going into details and sounding even stranger but although my cats were pretty much the only reason I fought to 'be' after Holly and Meisha, I was also angry that they were here and my dogs weren't. I think this is the first time since 2004, I have actually written their names down and now I am crying.

Anyway, I think it is very healthy that you are able to write down here your thoughts regarding Indy. Please do not feel any guilt, you did so much and it was ultimately out of your control hugging

Last edited by bianca; 10/05/10 09:40 AM.

Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca] #90599
10/05/10 12:40 PM
10/05/10 12:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 181
Western NY
UConnGSD Offline
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UConnGSD  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 181
Western NY
Oh Lisa... teary Have you tried the Star of Bethlehem & Pine from the Bach remedies? The former for grief and the latter for the guilt feelings, which are going hand-in-hand with grief. hugging to you & Max.


UConnGSD
Mommy of: Wolfgang vom Kolenda (Wolfie) 5/5/08
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: UConnGSD] #90607
10/05/10 01:58 PM
10/05/10 01:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Brain tumors are horrible, they are insidious, we don't know they are there until it is too late. I have lost many relatives to this terrible disease to include a 5 year old niece. There is NOTHING you can do until it is already too late in most cases. Don't beat yourself up because you missed it. There were probably no signs. My niece's first sign was tilting her head and by then it was too late.

hugging


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Kayos] #90647
10/05/10 03:39 PM
10/05/10 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
Lisa, if it was a brain tumor what would you have changed? Nothing you did caused the tumor, nothing you could have done would have prevented the tumor. Indy was happy to be there with you, she passed in her sleep after received hugs and cuddles from you. Do you think she would have changed that to pass in some sterile Vets office because they wanted to do an MRI. Do you think you wouldn't be second guessing yourself if you would have let her go when you were at UC Davis???

I know you are hurting and this maybe a part of your process for healing but you did what at the time you thought was best for Indy. I don't believe she suffered, she was with you where she wanted to be. If the pain would have been too much for her she would have told you. I think she was sad that she had to leave you but once again I don't think she was in pain. How many animals or people get to fight a good fight and end up dying peacefully at home.

Death is not an easy thing to process. I think it is harder for you because for a long time you and Indy fought to be together. I think you feel like you let her down. You didn't let her down you gave her a longer life from the excellent care and love that you gave her.

I know you strongest tie was to Indy, but your Max needs you. He is off balance just like you are, your routines have been disrupted, your hearts have been broken.

It is natural when your routine is gone and you feel really out of sorts. Life is different, but life goes on. Indy wouldn't want you beating yourself up over something you or she couldn't change.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #90665
10/05/10 04:14 PM
10/05/10 04:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,032
L
LifeAsMe Offline
Carpal Tunnel
LifeAsMe  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,032
Lisa, I think you have survivor's guilt. I also think it's natural to have guilt over things not done, and that we have no control over, when we lose someone. Especially a pet, or a child, who can not speak for themselves. Regardless of what decision we make, we always live with the 'what if' scenario's.

You gave Indy a better life than she would have possibly had with anyone else. She left peacefully, feeling safe in her home with you. Just remember that while you work through your grief. I wish I had the words of wisdom and comfort that so many others have. All I can really say is I hope you find peace and my thoughts are with you.

Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: LifeAsMe] #90687
10/05/10 05:18 PM
10/05/10 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Oh bianco, I'm so sorry hugging but what you said about the cats, being there when the dogs weren't, it helps. Max is trying to be the best boy ever, in his own boy way (I think Jenn put it best earlier, thank you Jenn!!), and it's difficult on so many different levels.

Kathy, how terrible and tragic, I'm sooo sorry. I appreciate that info.

The head tilt. You know, I've gone over this chiro thing a zillion times in my head, because she spiraled after seeing the chiro, we all thought it could be damage to the disk. But just the week before, I had thought how she had suddenly aged, her head was more sunken, her eyes getting worse. I would not have seen a head tilt because of the regular chiro visits. She used to freeze in place while walking a lot. She went through a period where she would fall while standing, shometimes she would knuckle, sometimes she would shuffle. Her hearing was going, and lately her eyes were so red and so bulging. I managed her with antibiotics and chiro care. The chiro care was huge for her. In the end, the only thing I would have done is kept her on the higher dose of doxy, and not stopped her algae dha - she got better on the dha, but it caused the lipomas to grow and be more uncomfortable so I stopped it. But those things would not have bought much more time I suspect. Anyway, I go back to thinking about that last chiro visit, I had felt so sad at how she had suddenly aged - if there is any chance that the chiro implicated, I bet she would not have been with me long at all anyway. I entirely believe that the chiro gave her a better quality of life, and, in fact, prolonged it. If I had another dog with a brain tumor, I would be back at the chiro. The time she had here was good.

UConn, I will have ro look at those remedies, particularly if I get stuck in this place. LaM, maybe it is survivor's guilt, it's at least related. Val, as usual, you have it nailed.

Okay, chiro day for Max. Gonna get up and feed the boy, and prepare for the day.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #90772
10/05/10 08:17 PM
10/05/10 08:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Maryland
Strongheart Offline
New Member
Strongheart  Offline
New Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Maryland
Lisa I recently had a little one of my charges with multiple conditions that just never stopped but she had a special animal-certified chiropractor whom she loved very much (who also did chi gong -sp?) and this little soul's body seemed indestructible.

Then her chiro's mom died and she had to leave for a long, long time. The little soul left her body shortly after and I have come to realize that the chiro was what was keeping her going the whole time.

Look at all the things Indy went through, sounds like an episode of "House" - but how many dogs get that kind of diagnostic team working on them? There are lots of people who don't even get the care your Indy got as a result of your diligence.

As for Max, well as one of my favorite bosses used to say who kept losing relatives while I worked with her, "first you have to take care of the living and then you have to take care of the dead." I think over time you will have realizations about things that happened with Indy and they will help your future dogs. And the ones who are closest to you are the hardest to see some symptom you only recognize later because your subconscious does not want to see it. That's why they don't let doctors treat their family members.

Be kind to yourself and don't feel guilty for missing Indy as part of your routine.


GSD Jessie Jane
GSD Rocky
ColliexPointer Macintosh
Schipperke Felix
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Strongheart] #90779
10/05/10 08:30 PM
10/05/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
Caregivers syndrome too...
http://www.specialneedspets.org/caregvrs.htm

Take care - can you and Max go on little drives? Find a quiet place to sit, then back home - your energy must be low and that's a good way to do something with him without tiring out.

Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: Strongheart] #90785
10/05/10 09:15 PM
10/05/10 09:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
Lisa,

Many healing thoughts and strength going out to you and Max. hugging


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: BowWowMeow] #90864
10/06/10 01:06 AM
10/06/10 01:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
I see that Kris lost Murphy over the weekend too frown I'm so sorry Kris; her 19 years are a tribute to the love and care you gave her.

Thank you Ruth, thank you for the link Jean. Max is still having leg and back problems, so limited car rides, but I am trying to get outside as often as I can with him. We are both exhausted. I have never seen him sleep so soundly with such little activity. Me, I understand why that is so. I hadn't realized that Max is in the same condition.

Thank you Strongheart, what you say resonates. And I will try to take care of the living first.

I thought today the actual chiro visit would be the most difficult part. I was wrong. It was the drive there.

Leaving, I kept pacing around and looking for what I had forgotten before I left, and I realized that I was looking for Miss Indy. I have made this 30 mile drive every 2-3 weeks for the last 9 years. I have *never* made it without Indy before.

I found myself distracted on the drive, and I would l would look around and barely recognize the scenery. When I would look, it didn't register what leg of the trip I was on. I would search for a higheay sign, and think I recognized the names of the roads, but even they were hazy. It was very difficult.

Once there, we were good. It was a good and healing visit with the chiro, now a longtime friend. And a good walk afterward, though Max was giving out and was exhausted. I shared part of a burger on the way home with him, he was happy.

I'm going to nap a bit before getting some work done. The chiro said I look like I have lost weight. Actually, it's about 7 pounds. It's not a good weight loss though, and I'm sure will come right back when I'm back eating. And yes, I am working on that! When indy was so sick, I just didn't have time, and now I have just felt too ill. I will eat though, I promise.

I find I leave the tv or radio off a lot now, to listen to the silence. I would have predicted otherwise, that I would try to avoid it. Funny how that works. It seems more respectful I guess.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #90866
10/06/10 01:12 AM
10/06/10 01:12 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
hugging You and Max are in my thoughts. One day or moment at a time Lisa, that is all you can do hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: kennel cough or congestive heart failure? [Re: bianca] #90891
10/06/10 02:10 AM
10/06/10 02:10 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,897
L
Lexi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Lexi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
L
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,897
I am so glad that the chiro appointment went so well; it sounds like it was exactly what you and Max both needed. Just keep on doing what you're doing, Lisa. Baby steps. hugging

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