Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Skywalkerlady]
#13128
03/03/10 01:22 AM
03/03/10 01:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 456
3K9Mom
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My vets' policy is to sedate and even pre-sedate if the owner wants. The sedation is an injection, and as I noted earlier, I gave my dog an Acepromazine (in a wad of brownies  ) before the vet showed up. That's how strongly my vets feel about sedation. I guess it depends on what you want. But even at the ER where one of my dogs was euthanized after she collapsed due to CHF, they sedated first. If they weren't inclined to, I would have insisted on it. If nothing else, I think this thread should make every owner discuss this topic AT LENGTH with your vet. Then, be sure that it's charted in your pets' charts. AND wherever you keep all of your pets' medical records (and emergency info, like whom to call in an emergency), write down exactly what you want. When you walk into an emergency room, you should bring that information (every time). Things can happen very quickly in an emergency clinic and sometimes, decisions get made while you're stunned and in a fog. If you have information written down, you can hand the piece of paper to the vet. (Along these sorts of lines, the DVD, 911! - BE PREPARED! EMERGENCIES AND THE EMERGENCY ROOM http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN306 discusses a lot of the issues that dog owners don't even realize can arise until they're in the emergency clinic and their brains are flooded with information faster than they can absorb them. I think this DVD is worth watching a couple times so that you can think through what your plans would be under different scenarios and WRITING THEM DOWN. Highly recommended.) Ok. Sorry for the threadjack. Back to the topic at hand.
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Skywalkerlady]
#13140
03/03/10 01:38 AM
03/03/10 01:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,895
Shilohsmom
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
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I was thinking about this. The sight of my dog thrashing around while being euthanized would haunt me forever. I feel the same way. Unfortunately my good friend Anne will remember our beloved Ebony this way and its just not right! People need to be aware of their options. In my opinion there is just no reason whatsoever to take this chance.
Rosa
Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: 3K9Mom]
#13142
03/03/10 01:39 AM
03/03/10 01:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,895
Shilohsmom
OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,895
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My vets' policy is to sedate and even pre-sedate if the owner wants. The sedation is an injection, and as I noted earlier, I gave my dog an Acepromazine (in a wad of brownies  ) before the vet showed up. That's how strongly my vets feel about sedation. I guess it depends on what you want. But even at the ER where one of my dogs was euthanized after she collapsed due to CHF, they sedated first. If they weren't inclined to, I would have insisted on it. If nothing else, I think this thread should make every owner discuss this topic AT LENGTH with your vet. Then, be sure that it's charted in your pets' charts. AND wherever you keep all of your pets' medical records (and emergency info, like whom to call in an emergency), write down exactly what you want. When you walk into an emergency room, you should bring that information (every time). Things can happen very quickly in an emergency clinic and sometimes, decisions get made while you're stunned and in a fog. If you have information written down, you can hand the piece of paper to the vet. (Along these sorts of lines, the DVD, 911! - BE PREPARED! EMERGENCIES AND THE EMERGENCY ROOM http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN306 discusses a lot of the issues that dog owners don't even realize can arise until they're in the emergency clinic and their brains are flooded with information faster than they can absorb them. I think this DVD is worth watching a couple times so that you can think through what your plans would be under different scenarios and WRITING THEM DOWN. Highly recommended.) Ok. Sorry for the threadjack. Back to the topic at hand. Have you sceen that Video? You'd recommend it?
Rosa
Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Shilohsmom]
#13230
03/03/10 03:33 AM
03/03/10 03:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 119 Ft. Myers, FL
DenaliFofali
Member
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Member
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Ft. Myers, FL
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Wow, I'm trying to read this thread and inform myself for the future. I'm crying just thinking about it. For those that have been through this... You are incredibly brave and strong.
Tahiry, Owned by: Denali 3-25-09 Kinley 3-15-11
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: DenaliFofali]
#14142
03/04/10 10:20 PM
03/04/10 10:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 41 Arizona
doubletrouble
Junior Member
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Junior Member
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Posts: 41
Arizona
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Unfortunately, our first dog was the victim of a botched euthansia. Our regular vet wasn't there that day and the vet that was there was someone we hadn't seen before. She wasn't a new vet, just new to the practice. Due to unusual circumstances, we chose not to wait the few days until our regular vet returned (big mistake).
I had never had to put a dog down but I was with a friend when her dog was PTS so I thought I knew what to expect. I still don't know exactly what the vet did wrong - only that as I was holding him, she inserted the needle several times then started apologizing and suddenly there was blood squirting all over the walls and me and the vet tech I knew pretty well came running in and meanwhile I'm sobbing and holding on to Cody who wasn't struggling but I'll never forget him looking at me -it was just horrible!! I honestly don't remember all that was said and done after that -but I do remember being told that unfortunately that can happen and I was too upset to argue, I just wanted him to be at peace. She left the practice soon after - I didn't go back until she did.
When Belle went to the bridge, it was quick and peaceful and it was at the hands of a vet who knew what she was doing. The only pain was ours at losing her.
Mom to Rambo RIP Cody & Belle
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Mary Jane]
#14785
03/05/10 09:17 PM
03/05/10 09:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 85 KY
elginhaus
Member
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Member
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KY
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I agree Mary Jane, absolutely. Sometimes there is no humane human alternatives to suffering.
Bonnie in KY
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: doubletrouble]
#15130
03/06/10 07:57 AM
03/06/10 07:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 402
bjdimock
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Unfortunately, our first dog was the victim of a botched euthansia. Our regular vet wasn't there that day and the vet that was there was someone we hadn't seen before. She wasn't a new vet, just new to the practice. Due to unusual circumstances, we chose not to wait the few days until our regular vet returned (big mistake).
I had never had to put a dog down but I was with a friend when her dog was PTS so I thought I knew what to expect. I still don't know exactly what the vet did wrong - only that as I was holding him, she inserted the needle several times then started apologizing and suddenly there was blood squirting all over the walls and me and the vet tech I knew pretty well came running in and meanwhile I'm sobbing and holding on to Cody who wasn't struggling but I'll never forget him looking at me -it was just horrible!! I honestly don't remember all that was said and done after that -but I do remember being told that unfortunately that can happen and I was too upset to argue, I just wanted him to be at peace. She left the practice soon after - I didn't go back until she did.
When Belle went to the bridge, it was quick and peaceful and it was at the hands of a vet who knew what she was doing. The only pain was ours at losing her. OK, stop it with the blame game........ Everyone is willing to slam vets for "Botched" euthanasia's. Why do you think that human doctors won't even broach that field???? They don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. They aren't getting involved in our views of acceptable euthanasia for pets versus acceptable euthanasia of humans. I bet if euthanasia was readily available to humans, then,you would find that people also don't always die peacefully, sedate or not. Sometimes they would just slip away... sometimes, their nerves would react, and sometimes, their central nervous system would kick in, and even though they were long gone, their body would gasp for 20 minutes. ( Want to go there with me??) As for the vets who can't find the veins.... It is much harder to hit a vein on a down, sick animal than it is on an active one. Perhaps the vet you had try to do it was young, and realized that she couldn't do this part of the job. Forgive her. The many tears I have cried with my clients only strengthen my bond with them, and help them to know that someone else feels the passing. My best friend, and boss, couldn't hit the vein on my girl, and she too, looked into my eyes while that was happening and you know what I saw? (I heard I'm sorry too) My pain ridden girl, trying to figure out who I was, and trying to trust me, because she never moved once. I remember my heart leaving before she did, because I couldn't show her that I would let her down. I remember her screaming once the injection was in, and knowing that she didn't know that she was doing it. I remember the kicks, and Wendy telling me she was holding on to the end... And then I remember only peace, when Katchia just let go, and loved me one last time. She loved me until the end, and in the end, I got to see her one last time. I wouldn't trade that moment ever. If that is what comes with my decision over my pack, then I'm there till the end, no matter what it brings. What right do I have to let that moment pass???
Proud foster of Gaia,Seda,Ilan,Sika,Fenna,Tasha and Inga(Fidelco Guide Dogs) Pack members.. Alpha Ilan,Fenna,FGD momma,Sika(needed 2 help me)Gwen(pitX) Tasha; SAR dog in training and loving it! 7 cool cats! 3 beloved equines and of course Mr. Frodo
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: bjdimock]
#15224
03/06/10 04:55 PM
03/06/10 04:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,380 Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
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Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,380
Wisconsin
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bjdimock, this is pretty harsh for people who are discussing the pros and cons of a procedure that none of us really want to have to do with our dogs.
A little kindness and understanding would go a lot farther than the bitching yada yada I just read. No one is perfect, people, Vets, Drs, owners all make mistakes.
Verbally slapping someone around for expressing their feeling on a terrible incident they went through is pretty rude, uncaring, thoughtless.
There are much nicer ways to make a point.
Wisc.Tiger_Owner Val
Val da Tiger
Fuzzybutt the cat. Neilla the Big White puppy.
RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16 RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14 RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011 RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: middleofnowhere]
#15592
03/07/10 10:55 AM
03/07/10 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,675 Northern CA
MaxaLisa

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Posts: 19,675
Northern CA
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That is not what I read the post (2 back) to say. What it said to me is that 1. sometimes the body reacts although the dog is not aware of it (and that that is not necessarily the vet's fault) I think that's a pretty grand assumption that the dog is not aware of these reactions. I don't think that's something that we can be completely confident in knowing - we are learning all the time about "consciousness" and I think we sometimes make assumptions that make us conscious folks feel better. It actually sounds like one of those things that are told to us for years, that just might not be true. Much like the vets that told us for years that "dogs don't feel pain", when in reality, they are just more stoic about it. When the poster mentioned she heard her dog scream and that she knew her dog was not aware of what it was doing, I think that too is an assumption, and not something that we can know with assurance. Regarding whether the vet botched the euthanasia or not, I think we can let the description speak for itself. Last time I had blood shooting from my vein was when a really bad technician was trying to take blood from me.... And perhaps I read the last statement wrong, but I didn't read it as only stating that the poster wanted to be there no matter what. I read it that she wanted the dog to be aware and present so that she could say goodbye in those final moments, without her dog being first sedated, so that the goodbye was one made in full consciousness. Perhaps I read that wrong. If I read that correctly, my thought was, that that goodbye then is more for the human than the dog.
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: bjdimock]
#15594
03/07/10 12:08 PM
03/07/10 12:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 229 Pocono`s, Pa
kutzro357
Enthusiast
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I don`t know what cocktail my vet uses but I`ve had a couple dogs euthanized and it was the same every time. I sat on the table with their head in my hand or lap. The vet starts the IV and very slowly and calmly the respiration and heart slow and stop. Nothing dramatic. I gently close their eyes and hold them.
* "If I only had three words of advice, they would be, Tell the Truth. If got three more words, I'd add, all the time." — Randy Pausch
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: bjdimock]
#15795
03/07/10 09:59 PM
03/07/10 09:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 41 Arizona
doubletrouble
Junior Member
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Junior Member
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Posts: 41
Arizona
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bjdmock...
My comment was not meant to be a blame game - simply information of what I went through that I thought might help someone else.
I took Cody in, not knowing that type of thing could happen - regardless, there is no way I would not have wanted to be there...all the more so because of what did happen. The vet was neither new nor young but I understand she was human. I still would not have felt comfortable going back to her.
I'm sorry - it sounds like you went through an experience even more upsetting than mine.
Mom to Rambo RIP Cody & Belle
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: bjdimock]
#16193
03/08/10 09:15 PM
03/08/10 09:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,895
Shilohsmom
OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,895
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Unfortunately, our first dog was the victim of a botched euthansia. Our regular vet wasn't there that day and the vet that was there was someone we hadn't seen before. She wasn't a new vet, just new to the practice. Due to unusual circumstances, we chose not to wait the few days until our regular vet returned (big mistake).
I had never had to put a dog down but I was with a friend when her dog was PTS so I thought I knew what to expect. I still don't know exactly what the vet did wrong - only that as I was holding him, she inserted the needle several times then started apologizing and suddenly there was blood squirting all over the walls and me and the vet tech I knew pretty well came running in and meanwhile I'm sobbing and holding on to Cody who wasn't struggling but I'll never forget him looking at me -it was just horrible!! I honestly don't remember all that was said and done after that -but I do remember being told that unfortunately that can happen and I was too upset to argue, I just wanted him to be at peace. She left the practice soon after - I didn't go back until she did.
When Belle went to the bridge, it was quick and peaceful and it was at the hands of a vet who knew what she was doing. The only pain was ours at losing her. OK, stop it with the blame game........ Everyone is willing to slam vets for "Botched" euthanasia's. Why do you think that human doctors won't even broach that field???? They don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. They aren't getting involved in our views of acceptable euthanasia for pets versus acceptable euthanasia of humans. I bet if euthanasia was readily available to humans, then,you would find that people also don't always die peacefully, sedate or not. Sometimes they would just slip away... sometimes, their nerves would react, and sometimes, their central nervous system would kick in, and even though they were long gone, their body would gasp for 20 minutes. ( Want to go there with me??) As for the vets who can't find the veins.... It is much harder to hit a vein on a down, sick animal than it is on an active one. Perhaps the vet you had try to do it was young, and realized that she couldn't do this part of the job. Forgive her. The many tears I have cried with my clients only strengthen my bond with them, and help them to know that someone else feels the passing. My best friend, and boss, couldn't hit the vein on my girl, and she too, looked into my eyes while that was happening and you know what I saw? (I heard I'm sorry too) My pain ridden girl, trying to figure out who I was, and trying to trust me, because she never moved once. I remember my heart leaving before she did, because I couldn't show her that I would let her down. I remember her screaming once the injection was in, and knowing that she didn't know that she was doing it. I remember the kicks, and Wendy telling me she was holding on to the end... And then I remember only peace, when Katchia just let go, and loved me one last time. She loved me until the end, and in the end, I got to see her one last time. I wouldn't trade that moment ever. If that is what comes with my decision over my pack, then I'm there till the end, no matter what it brings. What right do I have to let that moment pass??? I couldn't believe what I read here. I kept comming back and re-reading it but still could not believe it. Please tell us some heartless person got ahold of your sign in and posted this and you had nothing to do with it. I'm appaulded at the suggestion that a person should find some type of bonding moment with the Vet if the Vet doesn't have the experience they need to put my pet to sleep peacefully. The Vets can cry all they want but if they can't handle it then they need to get out of the profession or at least refuse this 'service'. I can guarantee few things in this world but I can guarantee you that a Vet crying over something like this would in no way lessen my pain or create any type of bonding experience. To everyone else reading this thread I encourage you to keep reading, do your reseach and have this discussion with your Vet. As pet owners we will all face this time but it might be a little easier if you know what to expect in the end.
Rosa
Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Shilohsmom]
#17698
03/11/10 04:03 AM
03/11/10 04:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 78 IN, USA
Hawklore
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 78
IN, USA
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For a well minded veterinarian, Euthanasia is nearly as hard on them as it is on the owner.
The Vet must live with the fact they are taking a life, whether it is for the better or not.
The vet I worked for, many many times, came out of a room, closed the door, and leaned his head up against the door frame, touched the wall, and walked away, head hung.
The best way to prevent 'botched' euthanasia's is to request an I.V. Catheter be placed. It gives the veterinarian a direct like to the blood supply, and will prevent the multiple needle sticks happening in front of you.
No one can control how a dog reacts to the cocktail of medicines being given.
I've never had a violent euthanasia. The worst thing that's happened is we've had to inject 3x as much solution, than what was required.
We felt horrible, because the dog is so near death, but unable to continue into it.
Use an I.V. catheter for all Euthanasias, and 90% of these problems won't happen.
PS:
Bodily functions cease, the moment the heart does. Muscles relax, stool is passed, urine is released.
Nerves fire, they aren't because the brain is sending the signal, their fired because the brain releases all chemicals.
The chemical that causes the nerves to twitch, and muscle movement, is sodium based, and highly produced.
Most nerve twitching I have noticed is in the form of how our dogs dream. They run in their sleep. This is little twitches of the paws, eyes, ears, and rarely a leg.
Last edited by Hawklore; 03/11/10 04:09 AM.
Lend a shoulder, thank a Veteran. Loving parent of Quiescence(Kwai). Formerly WW2Reenactor
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Re: Sedation prior to Euthansia
[Re: Hawklore]
#24482
03/26/10 02:52 PM
03/26/10 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 253 Massachusetts
vio79
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 253
Massachusetts
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After reading through this, I have to add my $.02, though it's probably worth less than that...
When I was growing up, my family had two lab mixes, brother and sister. We had them for 14 and 15 years, since I'd been 7.
The male had a congenital heart defect, so he ended up at Tufts for the last couple weeks of his life. They euthanized him there and botched it. It was so bad, I had to leave the room (even at 22, I couldn't handle it). One reason why Tufts leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
The female died a year later, and our vet euthanized her in our home. She went very peacefully without an issue.
Both cases, no sedation. One was awful, one was good, if you can even say that.
Anyway, I think I would opt for sedation first, so there is a smaller chance the dog may experience any discomfort. Like people said in this thread, you just don't know what they're feeling or going through at the time, and I'd want to make it as easy as possible, both for them and for my own conscience!
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eh
by middleofnowhere. 11/06/22 02:07 AM
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