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Tough week for Nebbers #357046
04/25/22 12:17 AM
04/25/22 12:17 AM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Well. Easter Sunday night/evening Neb developed bad diarrhea. Fasted him Monday, it calmed down, but since he's 14 (14!) now, he has trouble with bile if he doesn't eat often enough (we feed 3x/day) - so that was tough and I didn't know how to balance, but he got through it okay.

Wednesday the boys had heartworm and tick disease testing. They're all fine. He however is down to 37lbs (he should be around 40lbs) - 3lbs is a decent amount, especially in a dog that size.

That's obviously not all from Sunday overnight/Monday.

He's not too thin, but he's skating into that. I've wanted him to stay lean because he has arthritis, but last night and this morning brought the phrase 'insurance weight' into mind, especially after last Sunday night/Monday.

We camped this weekend. Not far from Toronto, thank goodness, about 2 hours away. Beautiful view, weird tiny park, wouldn't stay there again despite the view. Not our kind of place, we tried it because it wasn't too far. We thought, heck, it's close to the Bruce Trail, we can do a couple of short hikes on there.

Saturday it rained - a lot - but we walked along the water and over to a flat trail across the street (rail trail) and all were well-behaved. Xerxes gets cold sooooo easily, I swear, he did not have fun, luckily he's happy on a lap under a sleeping bag WHILE wearing a fleece jacket.

The last...7 times? we've camped, Neb's thrown up 5 of those times. He likes eating leaves, charcoal out of the fire pit, and sticks. We try to stop him, but it's a bit of a losing cause when you're outside all day. While this never used to cause issues, his stomach is decidedly different now.

So all went well until last night (Saturday) overnight. Not sure what time in the night he first needed to go out - Toby took him out three times, I took him out twice, he puked in the tent once - eventually around 5:50am I just got up and took him and Agis outside so Toby could sleep. We walked around, slowly, he puked a bit, and then he settled into standing around looking miserable and shivering (it was probably 8 or 9C, so not warm, but he's always been fine at those temps) - I put him on my lap, wrapped a sleeping bag around him - shiver shiver shiver. He wouldn't stay put, wandered around, looked confused...so I roused Toby and we packed up the campsite in record time (seriously it was shocking). At first we'd thought that he was low calorie from puking and that's why he was cold - but he refused food, even treats. He was drinking.

We got home (stopping at the grocery store so I could run in and get some sweet potato and chicken stock to cook rice in). Tried offering him some sweet potato and a handful of kibble while we were feeding the others - no interest. He wanders around standing and looking in distress. Get some more gravol into him (had given him some liquid children's gravol at night and in the morning that we got for the car after previous experiences) and he's drinking well, but has been this whole time. Checked his gums - fine - tented him - fine. Whew!

He needs to go pee, so I take him out. One elevator comes - full. After waiting and waiting for another I give up and head to the stairs, pick him up and carry him down (running into a neighbour who stops to chat and I was like, geez, I have an armful of Nebbers, now is not a good time). Thank goodness we live on the 3rd floor and not higher!!!!! He pees, we walk to the park across the street and come back - all told maybe 350m and it took about 15 minutes. He's not moving fast, shall we say. But walking across the lawn there was another dog (working on it's heel, it was busy) but his tail lifted and he did a little wag. This time we got an elevator and walking down the hall he started to trot - a sure sign he's hoping for food. We come in, give him the sweet potato (half a small one) and the handful of kibble. He eats - takes forever, but he finishes it.

So I send Toby off to the local pet store for some wet food. Toby comes home with two things of 'emergency bland diet' which is freeze-dried so shelf stable and I think, great - it's not a big space real estate-wise, we can bring it with us places so in that sense it's good. In the sense that he paid money for white rice, turkey, and sweet potato - he tried. I love the goof. It DOES have electrolytes. So there's that.

While Toby was walking with Agis to the pet store Neb finally lay down and went to sleep.

Anyways, Neb likes the food, I gave some when Toby got home. We took them out again around 4pm (walked around the perimeter of the upper field in the park across the street) and Neb peed a TON (drinking lots and I gave lots of water to hydrate the bland stuff) and ate some more bland stuff with some extra sweet potato when we got back in. Ate with gusto.

It got us thinking (in addition to that we'll never camp with him again - we have cancelled the annual anniversary trip, oh well - we were supposed to backpack in two weeks with the boys but Agis and I will go alone - Captain Cold and Captain Old will stay home with Toby).

But - this is basically 2 days out of 7 in the last week he hasn't eaten either because we were trying to calm his stomach from the diarrhea or because he felt so gross/nauseous. This worries me.

So - perhaps we need more food options in our arsenal. I was looking at wet food, senior food in particular - but our kitchen is small and that's a storage issue, we'd be using wet food as a topper so it's not like we'd go through one can all at once. I do want to give something soft because at 14 he's got very worn down pre/molars - getting down to almost nothing in spots - which also worries me of course. So a bit more soft calories won't hurt, and a bit more calories also won't hurt. Right now they get Acana as their day-to-day kibble. We've tried them on cheaper kibbles but they do the best on this and it lasts longer because they don't need to eat as much. And the pet store does a buy 11, get the 12th free (same with the cat food and even the litter).

I looked at The Honest Kitchen, but that's expensive ($143 (cdn) for a 10lb box). I know it would last, especially if it's not the primary food but an add-on, but it's the initial outlay at the moment.

I found a freeze-dried food that is affordable (I think we'd give one scoop a day, so $43 will last a month as there are 30 scoops apparently). I ordered online and will walk over tomorrow to get it. Probably give it in the afternoon meal or at dinner. We got the lamb kind. The ingredients look really solid. I don't anticipate us feeding it solely, but it will be a nice extra I am hoping/think.

The more I read about senior food the more it seemed unnecessary, especially as he is more to the underweight side and a lot of senior food seems to be designed with older dogs getting heavier in mind.

Anyways, this is the food: https://openfarmpet.com/products/pasture-raised-lamb-freeze-dried-raw/?variant=20775016824945

Neb goes for his annual June 6th, but I think I will shot our vet a 'FYI' email once he's made it to tomorrow without further pukes (I am quite sure that will happen at this stage). He did a tiny poop last night and at 4pm.

Man! Overall he's still way healthier than Luc was at this age - well, Luc had the laryngeal paralysis - but my heart was just broken for him today. Our Sweetheart.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357047
04/25/22 07:47 AM
04/25/22 07:47 AM
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Jenn, I would get this dog to the vet tomorrow or as soon after as you can.

Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357049
04/25/22 09:29 AM
04/25/22 09:29 AM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Thanks Middle - you're right. I'll call them when they open at 8...poor guy.

He's peeing lots (drinking lots) and pooped a normal amount this morning but a bit softer than normal.

He did get up last night right after we went to bed and went to the bedroom gate. I thought he had to pee so got dressed and went out of the bedroom - but rather than go to the door (and he had just gone, before bed) he went over to the dining room window and sniffed, and then spent a bunch of time sniffing at the various kitchen doors. He seemed confused. I slept on the couch with him, I don't know if that was the right think to do or not. He got up next to me and spent the night there as near as I can tell.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357051
04/25/22 02:28 PM
04/25/22 02:28 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Neb goes to the vet tomorrow at 11:30. They definitely wanted to see him.

There is like this weird 'holy heck Neb is actually old' that I hadn't quite come to grips with before this. Weird I know. I mean, is he slower? Trouble going down stairs? Yes. Trucking along like a superstar otherwise? Oh yeah. So this is a bit of a shock.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357052
04/25/22 04:04 PM
04/25/22 04:04 PM
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Mary Jane Online content
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OK, I guess you're at the vet now. All good luck to Mr Neb.

I hope the vet has some positive ideas for your old gentleman. To add to your menu: scrambled eggs.

Please post when you can,
MJ

Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357053
04/25/22 04:23 PM
04/25/22 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Thanks MJ. I posted tomorrow today (how confusing am I being heh) so we aren't there until tomorrow...but I will update.

Scrambled eggs is a great idea! I shall buy some eggs when I am next at the grocery store.

I realized with the reorg of our walk in closet I can keep some wet in there. So got a few kinds...and a can of green tripe, yech, I'll have to give everyone some of that...shudder! We can't afford to feed only wet (can always put water on his kibble I suppose) but a bit of wet certainly can work. It must've all smelled good because I got followed around!


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357063
04/26/22 06:46 PM
04/26/22 06:46 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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I wasn't feeling well this morning - I think I did not optimally time my nighttime AAP and morning dose - so I felt quite cross-eyed, Neb did not go to the vet. Unfortunately. He is however completely normal and fine.

I am pretty sure the diarrhea was the raw beef treats at the butcher, and, well, the camping thing he's been doing for a few years now, that's definitely not new. Worried that he was hit that much harder but I think he's probably just more frail from his age. This is the first time I realized...he's old. I know it's dumb not to think of a 14 year old dog as old but I didn't. He's my Nebbers!

We are going to monitor him for now, stay in touch with the vet.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357079
04/30/22 07:30 AM
04/30/22 07:30 AM
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Aww poor Neb! I get the holy crap, he is old! Spend so long with these dogs, that realization hits hard when it comes. I am glad he has settled now!


Abbey: German Shepherd, R.I.P.

Ranger: Patch Beagle

Suki: 14 years old grumpy Calico

Bella: Ragdoll. Now living with her best cat friend Ty at an oversized cat condo in Crazy Cat Lady City.

2 little angels/monsters in disguise: My 2 boys
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: DarkEyes] #357082
05/02/22 12:08 AM
05/02/22 12:08 AM
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Sorry I missed all this. I hope Nebs has continued to improve. Yeah, that old age really sneaks up on us fast sometimes. All the sudden you notice the grey hairs or the slowing down as they walk. It's a sad but special time. No doubt they look to us more for comfort than they needed to do before.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357100
05/02/22 07:15 PM
05/02/22 07:15 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Thanks DE and Rosa.

Yeah, I mean, I knew he was old, but all of a sudden he seemed...frail. He's back to as he was before, I should weigh him, speaking of. I weighed him last week and his weight was holding steady. We've kept forgetting to give him his fourth 'meal' but I remembered today (Toby didn't when I was away this weekend because 'I didn't know how much' - I'm not measuring, just giving him a bunch of wet - felt bad I didn't leave better instructions - but Toby gave him extra kibble. I have put a dozen eggs on the grocery list so I can start making him a scrambled egg).

At least he was quite sprightly on our (very short - like 1.2k) walk this morning - I mean, we did around 3.5k/hr, a bit faster. For him these days that's great.

I shall weigh him now! He has gained .5lb! I know that's not tons but it's something. He did just have some weight but not .5lb of it I am pretty darn sure. 17kg on the nose. (So, technically, 37.48lbs, but I'm rounding up)


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357121
05/04/22 12:50 AM
05/04/22 12:50 AM
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What a wonderful update party I'm so happy for both of you.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357141
05/05/22 05:29 PM
05/05/22 05:29 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Thanks Rosa! I should reweigh him regularly - I'm all impatient to do it now. Let's see...he's down about .25lb, but that could just be regular fluctuation. Still up slightly from where he was.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357242
05/25/22 11:31 PM
05/25/22 11:31 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Well. The weekend after I last posted Neb had loose stools when I returned from backpacking (Toby: I forgot to shut the gate to the second bedroom and he got into the litterbox).

Last weekend (long weekend) I did my first solo canoe trip. Yesterday afternoon - diarrhea. Ever since. I tell Toby I called the vet and Neb goes in (what was today). After the incidents I wrote about in this thread previously, he got better before I felt well enough to get him to the vet. Then the soft poop post-backpacking for 2 potty trips - okay, he ate cat poop.

And then this! (Toby: He might've gotten into the litterbox while you were gone again headbang)

So I took him today. His annual is/was June 6th, so we were hoping to wait until then, but not at this stage. In the last 29 hours he's had diarrhea at least 16 times - after the first few times, not huge amounts, but even still. Smaller meals (scrambled egg, GI wet food, sweet potato) but not fasted.

We have done bloodwork and testing urine. No meloxicam until this is sorted (we'd already handled that). Hoping it's not liver or kidneys. And he's lost more weight - Toby was like, well, after the last 24 hours, what do you expect? But I dunno. Vet is less fussed about that. Went home with metronidazole - vet said not to fast - he had his first dose around 4:30, and while I just took him out (diarrhea but not JUST liquid) he'd gone THREE HOURS without needing to go out - last night was a treat.

I'll update everyone when I hear about test results!

(Don't get me started on Xerxes getting into the hall at 6am this morning and running after the dog across the hall baying full force - he's all bay, no bite, but waaaaay too early to be that loud - I was mortified, scared to see the neighbours!!!!!! - I'd taken everyone out just before 5am, but was taking Neb out again on his own)


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357243
05/26/22 12:07 AM
05/26/22 12:07 AM
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That diarrhea can be a tricky one. I'm glad you were able to get him to the Vet. I'm hoping its not the kidneys or liver as well. Please update us when those results come in.

I just read that a dog can get sick from eating cat litter. Cat litter usually sticks to the poop so I'm thinking when he eats the tasty tidbits that he's eating cat litter as well. It said the dyes and perfumes can cause GI problems which include diarrhea. Not sure if that info is helpful to you or not.

Sounds like Xerxes was ready to jump at the first opportunity he had to go chasing another dog. Glad no damage was done but I'm sure it got your heart racing.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357247
05/26/22 09:53 AM
05/26/22 09:53 AM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Thanks Rosa. That is good to know about the cat litter. Ours is scent free but that's still a possibility.

Xerxes is a bit of a jerk with dogs he doesn't know - until calm introductions are made - Max has had enough stuff going on trying to adjust to life with people we haven't done introductions. It's also bad because we're friendly with those neighbours. Right afterwards I saw them outside while I had Neb and apologized and they were fine with it - gave Max a treat - but yeah. Sigh

I will definitely update!!!!


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357250
05/26/22 01:50 PM
05/26/22 01:50 PM
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Mary Jane Online content
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I am still impressed how you and Toby manage 5 animals and work and any recreation-but you do! I guess we all have our dog diarrhea/bland food stories we would rather forget. Do keep us posted about Neb (and everybody).

MJ

Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357251
05/26/22 07:14 PM
05/26/22 07:14 PM
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Overall Nebís blood values look great.

One of his kidney values (which was barely out of parameters last year) (SDMA) has gone up slightly again. His urine was very dilute so they want us to try to take in a few first thing in the morning urine samples over the next bit to see if heís having trouble concentrating his urine due to kidneys or if he was drinking a lot to compensate for the diarrhea.

There was a very small amount of blood in his urine. But no other sign of a UTI. So we donít need to treat for a UTI, something else we will keep an eye on at this stage.

She wants us to talk about keeping him on meloxicam as she suspects a lot of his GI stuff could be that. Itís the cost/benefit.

Of course, I am going to talk to them some more about doing some treatment-type stuff like lower protein foods for his kidneys even if his USG is normal on subsequent tests.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357254
Yesterday at 02:05 AM
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Sounds good so far happyboogie


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357260
4 hours ago
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jarn Offline OP
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Well, his urine specific gravity is still really dilute, so we're supposed to try to figure out how much he's drinking and maybe do a culture. But it is looking like he has kidney issues. But - he's pooping again (normally!) and has gone on a few sniff walks with me alone, plus to the park across the street with the other two a few times.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Tough week for Nebbers [Re: jarn] #357262
2 hours ago
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Alexandria, NH
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Good luck with Neb.

Caleb was drinking close to a gallon of water a day the last month or so.


Johanna

Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Caleb, AodhŠn, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
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