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Xerxes (incontinence) #355747
08/11/21 10:58 PM
08/11/21 10:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Last week I guess it was - Xerxes started having accidents in his sleep. Well, even if he didn't sleep in our bed, we'd be concerned, but he either sleeps between us at our heads or on my pillow with me. He's had four nighttime accidents now, one on the mattress (we got a waterproof protector when we got this mattress as Agis liked peeing on soft things when he was younger), and three on my pillow.

First more straightforward urine test - no UTI. Dilute urine. Bloodwork - all looks normal. First pee sample brought in to test urine specific gravity - very dilute urine. Sterile urine capture and culture - all fine.

They want us (when things cool off, we're in a heat wave) to do our best at estimating how much fluid he drinks. We have five animals and Xerxes will bay if separated from the others. We can't have that in an apartment. They realize we'll have to make do. Supposed to bring in (as heat subsides) 2-3 first pee samples over the next couple of weeks. They want to see how dilute.

They say it may just be plain old incontinence and he might be older then we were told (5-6ish years is a guess after all, given the shelter we got him from people who six months before had got him from a rescue that got him from another rescue in the US...stupid rescues called him RAT. What sort of name is that!), but with the USG being so dilute, they have early kidney concerns and want to rule that out. In the meantime, I have a puppy pee pad under my pillow case, heh. Nothing like waking up with your face in a pee spot!!!! My poor pillow.

Of interest what occurred to me yesterday - and Toby the day before, though he forgot to say anything - in the last 4-6 months Xerxes has started flank sucking. I assumed it was OCD/anxiety behaviour and so waited for his annual in May to raise it. They tested the area for pain response - nothing - he's not leaving sores - anal glands were sore. We gave him anxiety supplements which did nothing. Tried to exercise him more, work his mind - still does it.

Anyways, one sign of kidney failure is flank pain. I'm not sure he's high enough when he's flank sucking, but since it's a recent behaviour...we thought it was interesting. Have flagged it with the vet.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355748
08/12/21 01:18 AM
08/12/21 01:18 AM
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So our best bet is a UTI? If so let's hope for that. In the meantime for your health and well-being, I'd have him sleep on a piddle pad if he's sleeping on the bed. When BTE 1 had issues, the piddle pads worked great. She would help position them, too. Another thought would be a dog band (incontinence wrap for male dogs) for evenings/nights/sleep. Sleeping on dog pee doesn't sound in your best interest.

Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355749
08/12/21 01:39 AM
08/12/21 01:39 AM
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Tennessee
DarkEyes Offline
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Middle's suggestions are great. I have to agree, it can't be good for your health to have this happening on your bed so close to you.

Does UTI in dogs have a certain odor and color? I would think a UTI would have that characteristic, but I haven't had a dog with a UTI. Myself, I have, but not dogs.


Abbey: 12 years old German Shepherd

Suki: 12 years old grumpy Calico

Bella: Ragdoll. Now living with her best cat friend Ty at an oversized cat condo in Crazy Cat Lady City.

2 little angels/monsters in disguise: My 2 boys
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355750
08/12/21 02:44 AM
08/12/21 02:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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No, it's not a UTI. He had a sample collected by us AND a sterile sample (which was cultured by an outside lab) tested and no UTI. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355751
08/12/21 02:45 AM
08/12/21 02:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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They only want to see more urine to check how dilute it is from a kidney perspective.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355757
08/12/21 03:55 PM
08/12/21 03:55 PM
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Mary Jane Offline
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You wrote that his blood work is normal, I guess they did check kidney markers. They are pretty valuable for kidney disease in people.

Poor guy, poor pillow, and poor you...

Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355758
08/12/21 03:57 PM
08/12/21 03:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Yeah, they did all the kidney stuff with the bloodwork, all normal.

Apparently in really early kidney disease the urine specific gravity/dilution is what they use for diagnosis. Not sure if he'd need imaging too. I don't know whether to hope for kidney disease or not!


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355764
08/13/21 01:33 AM
08/13/21 01:33 AM
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Tennessee
DarkEyes Offline
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Hmm. That's just odd... hopefully he was just in a rut and nothing more, and will be better soon.


Abbey: 12 years old German Shepherd

Suki: 12 years old grumpy Calico

Bella: Ragdoll. Now living with her best cat friend Ty at an oversized cat condo in Crazy Cat Lady City.

2 little angels/monsters in disguise: My 2 boys
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: DarkEyes] #355773
08/14/21 06:52 PM
08/14/21 06:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,714
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Shilohsmom Online content
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I had Shoshi on Proin after she started peeing in her sleep. It worked wonders for several years and it wasn't expensive.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355800
08/19/21 11:47 AM
08/19/21 11:47 AM
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Mary Jane Offline
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How's Xerxes doing? Do they have all the urine samples for the follow-up?

Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355805
08/19/21 09:30 PM
08/19/21 09:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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We want to get the urine sample tomorrow to them. Were going to do it today but had an emergency video appointment with my psychiatrist that I wanted Toby there for - and I don't feel up to driving/leaving the house really, so we'll do it tomorrow - Toby has Fridays off. Then one early next week IF they want.

I thought I updated - the first sample we took in of this group had normal concentration. However, he had an accident Sunday night. So I am wondering if he has just standard incontinence and fingers crossed nothing with his kidneys.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355812
08/20/21 05:32 PM
08/20/21 05:32 PM
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Shilohsmom Online content
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Ask the Vet about Proin. I know of so many people that have used this successfully with their pups including me. I really hope you can get to the bottom of this soon. Things are stressful enough with even more stress added on.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355813
08/20/21 07:45 PM
08/20/21 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Rosa, that's hilarious, I just spoke to the vet and she sent me a fact sheet on Proin.

Xerxes had a little accident overnight. Took in first urine this morning (such as it is what with the accident and all) and the dilution was normal. Will do one more next week.

After that, they recommend Proin, though we'll have to monitor high blood pressure. They said, likely not much to worry about because he's so relaxed. I said, at the clinic, sure, but in regular life he is a trembling bundle of hate (that IS an exaggeration, but we call him Xerxes the Attack Beagle for a reason - he HATES other dogs, and has no problem letting them know (he also knows to sit quietly, but is super tense while doing so). Especially huskies. He HATES huskies. We can see one across the street 300m away and he'll lose it. If we take the elevator down to the lobby (rather than the stairs) then he's got attitude when the door opens JUST IN CASE there's a dog there that he has to tell off. Ahh, Xerxes. Not to mention he is a rather anxious little guy.

I think one thing to do would be x-rays to rule our bladder stones? But I'm not sure how much he's presenting like that, so I've asked.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355815
08/20/21 11:10 PM
08/20/21 11:10 PM
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Shilohsmom Online content
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Jenn, that Proin was a miracle drug for me. I never had a problem with it and had dry nights for the rest of her life. I've also heard many positive, and no negative, comments about it. He sounds like a real spitfire. That was my Shoshi.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355818
08/20/21 11:50 PM
08/20/21 11:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Oh I'm so glad to hear that! That is really good.

Xerxes is fear dog reactive, we're quite sure. I love him to death, he and I are pretty tightly bonded. He is a spitfire for sure wub


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355880
09/02/21 09:44 PM
09/02/21 09:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Xerxes continues to have accidents, and all his urine tests for dilution (last today) were normal. He goes in tomorrow for his blood pressure check before he starts Proin.

...which I made the mistake of googling, now I'm all worried about stroke.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355890
09/03/21 01:48 PM
09/03/21 01:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Toby told me I should still go backpacking - which I've agreed to - we want to get this started today (if we start it) so hopefully any start up vomiting and diarrhea is done with by the time we do the 7 hour drive next weekend to camp (also so he's not sick in the tent).

Depending what the vet says about stroke risk, we may not put him on it. We both agree we'd rather deal with pee then stroke. Though there must be other meds too. Testosterone is one I saw.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355891
09/03/21 04:23 PM
09/03/21 04:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Toby is uncomfortable with the proin side effects so for now we're holding off. Vet said this really is the thing you give, not other stuff. I got more comfortable but it's a joint decision and I respect his view. I said I knew people who had given it with success, but he still felt the risk did not outweigh the reward.

My biggest concern was possible inappetence. Xerxes has zero insurance weight - he runs a very low body fat percentage already.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355897
09/03/21 10:36 PM
09/03/21 10:36 PM
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Posts: 2,714
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Shilohsmom Online content
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No worries about the Proin, I just hope you have success with whatever you try crossedfingers


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Xerxes (incontinence) [Re: jarn] #355899
09/03/21 10:53 PM
09/03/21 10:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 907
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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Right now it looks like we'll be trying patience frown When we're back from camping in a week and a bit (trip#2) I'm going to do some research. I thought male dogs could try testosterone too.

That or I need to find a way to make Toby more comfortable. I didn't want to override him entirely.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
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