We recently started having the cats stay outside. They have claws and adequate shelter for protection from the elements (complete with an ongoing heating pad for the grumpy hateful old cat) and food is provided to have just enough for a feed in the morning and in the evening to discourage having multiple critters show up to eat the leftover food.

Welll, night #2 a tabby showed up and started harassing Bella. Over the course of the night it would come back and just target Bella. I assume it's because she's friendly in nature and Suki is a hateful cat that had already put Tabby In its place. When Husband heard the cat come back, I told him to send Abbey after it. She won't hurt the cat but she LOVES chasing cats and would probably chase the runaway cat. He brings Abbey out with him and sees that the tabby had cornered Bella. He sends her after it.

Nope. Cat ran and Abbey just stayed with Bella. *facepalm smacks* Likely either she can't see the dark coated cat in the night (even with a full moonlight) or she was more concerned with her feline pal than the thrill of chasing a cat. So far, we have not seen the tabby in the daytime. Its come back one other time and Abbey just isn't seeing the tabby, she just sees Bella. I guess we should remove "nighttime defensive tactics" from her list of duties!

Sounds like something Ciara would do. She is constantly wanting to play with Bentley (grandson's cat and current full time resident with us). I'm not sure if she would be interested in a strange cat in the yard.

outside cat??????????

asking for some other creature to do something to your "Pet" or else have the cat kill something else (bird. rabbit, etc.), sounds like.

Hope it goes well for your poor cat.

Outside cats are perfectly ordinary. They are hunters, and they kill rodents, birds, nuisance animals, that is their nature. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, in the country, where I am, that's normal behavior, want a cat if you have a barn and feed, and need to keep the unwanted critters down. And a dog on a farm is also partly to keep unwanted critters, including stray cats away.

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with having outside only cats. The plan was to only bring them inside the building when there is bitter cold, bad storms, or some other weather-related event where it's a good idea to bring the cats in to shelter from the elements. I am theorizing that the tabby is trying to maintain its territory. We moved in a few months ago... likely it is trying to keep its territory and is going for Bella because Bella is super friendly and probably an easy target. For now, we are keeping them cats inside the building detached from our house at night or when weather is bad. This seems to be working out pretty well. Bully tabby hasn't been back during the day and honestly I've not seen it before that night.

Disagreement here: There's plenty wrong with having uncontained outside cats. They kill and maim songbirds, they crap in neighbor's garden beds. (leaving kitty rocca for the dogs and disgusting stuff for the gardener.) They get eaten by owls, hawks, coyotes. They sound like babies being murdered when they fight or are in heat. What I'd like to see is a "cat tractor' that works like a chicken tractor. You could then keep your cats contained but move them around to control mice and other rodents. On a limited, controlled basis (controlled, away from song birds, out of neighbor's property) - sure, have them outside. But uniformily? nope. Not on my list of recommended practices.

My outside cat never killed song birds (that I know of), she killed blue jays though, a couple of bats that I know about, and some moles that I know about. She and the possum had a few battles, and she did not win. Cats and songbirds were created wild critters, to be outside. That we domesticated cats, or semi-domesticated them, does not give them any advantage at all in the hunting of song birds. In fact, it may make them less capable of hunting and killing.

I'm sorry, except for large predatory birds like hawks and eagles, I hate birds. I don't see why they get a free pass to poop all over the neighbor's car and flower beds and hair, etc. And, yes they are wild, but people feed them and THEY make them less capable of taking care of themselves, tamer, and more likely to be eaten by cats, because of where food is set out for them. And, yes, if you are feeding birds, than chances are your neighbors ARE getting a disproportionate amount of bird droppings. There was a pond out behind the Trumbull Campus of Kent State when I was going there, and it was host to a host of sea gulls. And the sea gulls had a collective goal of pooping on every car in the parking lot, every day.

They're all God's critters, and I don't see how people can actively hate on cats because of birds. Most cats have trouble getting birds. They stalk them, sure, but the bird lifts and flies away in a heart beat. It's like dogs and squirrels. So somehow my cat got a couple of blue jays, and bats. I saw that as her being a pretty awesome hunter. And she lived outside for that reason, to hunt rodents. Since she passed on, the rodent population (I live right on a river), it has grown. They make big holes in my yard, and when it gets cold, they come in. I need me a big, nasty, hunting cat to deter the rodents, and if they take out birds that some neighbor somewhere has made less adept to taking care of itself, oh well. Since I lost Goblin-Kitty, I haven't gotten another cat. But I need one.

The alternative is putting poison around, and folks tell me that the owls (birds again) will eat the poisoned rodents, and fall ill and die. Sometimes natures remedies are just better. A cat will mean no poison, no dead owls from eating poisoned mice. Win-win. The bird populations can lose some stragglers. Probably fits with that nature-thing, survival of the fittest.

Oh and, I live in the country, and outside cats are a way of life out here. I suppose it might be very different living in a city.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but bird populations are in decline. See this article as one example. And birds do serve a purpose. I'm all for keeping the rodents down and our cat has been effective inside the house at keeping any that get in under control. But I don't particularly want him outside going after the birds.

I have mixed feelings about the cat being a part time outside cat, but if the rodent population is particularly bad, I can understand wanting a "barn cat" or 2. That would also help keeping the tick populations down as they are a vector for ticks.

I have two feral cats and I have a lot of birds, we have several feeders set up that the cats could climb if they wanted to. The last feral I had to discourage from sitting under the bird feeders, he will occasionally get a Morning Dove, but very rarely.

Cats that have a source of food are either birders or they are not. Not saying that cats aren't a problem for the bird population, but I think there could be other factors in the decline.

A morning dove? Is that a pigeon? When I was small, before we moved out there, So I was 10 or under. Probably about 7, we had a neighbor who was an old crochety man. Found out years later that his wife had Alzeimer's and he took care of her from the time she was about 40. And, that when he first got sick his son came and sold the house out from under him, and when he got out of the hospital, he had no where to go. Which was sad. But I just knew him as a crochety old man. Mr. Haufmann. German to boot. (I am German, so I can say that, LOL!) Well he handed us his pellet gun and told us to kill pigeons.

We shot pigeons. We shot each other. It was a good think we didn't shoot each other's eyes out. Today, that sort of thing would fly, but forty some years ago.... Well, anyhow another neighbor, on the next street, accused my dad of shooting the pigeons that were all dying on his roof. My dad told him he wasn't, but he may know who is, and he would take care of the problem. He had a talk with Mr. Haufmann and the gun disappeared.

Ah memories....

Pigeons are Pigeons. Morning Doves are much nicer than Pigeons.
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Mourning_Dove/overview

If you scroll down on that link you will see the difference.

Ok, thanks. I think it was the rock pigeons he wanted us to shoot. It was a long time ago and they all kind of look like birds to me. I mean, I can tell a robin from a parakeet, and I know what a hummingbird looks like, a sea gull, cardinal, blue jay, Canadian goose and bald eagle, but if you ask me the difference between a goshawk and a falcon or hawk or peregrine, I couldn't tell you, and no way on the little birds. Dad said rock doves are pigeons. But that site calls them rock pigeons.

OK on the cat thing ---- wounded birds show up at my place -- fewer since one neighbor lost their cat. Only one was being nabbed by a hawk.

I'd have to check but I don't think pigeons on natives - I suspect they were imported as domestics maybe? I like trying to ID the birds that I see up here. (bird books help) There was a bigger variety in Arkansas but it is still pretty neat up here.

Selzer, Here is a pretty good link to identify Birds. https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/browse/taxonomy/Columbidae

That's kool. You can even listen to what they sound like. It was rock pigeons the neighbor man had us shooting, and the morning dove does look different and sound different.

We have our reasons for our cats being outside of our main house. It's my business I am not airing here I am not going to get into a debate about whether it's wrong or fine to have sheltered cats, feral cats, or indoor/outdoor cats because it's a waste of time and looks like this could lead to unnecessary drama. For the record, animals under our care have their purpose for being under our care. We don't get rid of animals when they no longer suit our purpose, we take care of them until they pass away from old age (We hope). I hope those that are in disagreement with my choices can agree to disagree and move on...

Abbey was sent out to do her job, which is defend her family. It's part of her purpose for being our dog. She loves Bella, so I know she'll protect her. She couldn't do the chase that night because either she sensed something was up with Bella or she just couldn't see the dark colored tabby at night (we still haven't seen it to this today) thus she didn't chase the cat off the property. We recognized a problem with the tabby coming at night and have resolved it. When the resolution doesn't work we'll work something out. For now, the cats are doing fine with the current arrangement.

As for the birds posts, I don't mind this being off the thread here, it's fine. I'd like to add to possible factors of the decline in birds. One being due to destruction of their homes from human impact, such as cutting down trees and bushes to make way for homes, businesses, and manicured landscaping purposes. Another major factor I'm thinking would be the sheer amount of pest control measures used to reduce bugs in the yard and in the homes. That has got to be hard for the birds to adapt.

My kitty stays inside. She is safe there, Too many predators for your poor cats.