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Hip dysplasia not hereditary #351852
12/04/19 01:04 PM
12/04/19 01:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 510
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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jarn  Offline OP
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Yeah, okay, that's why reputable breeders screen for it and don't breed dogs with it...BUT IT'S NOT HEREDITARY! Is there a 'rolls eyes' emoji?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...agnosed-with-genetic-condition-1.5383260

I feel for the owner though, though I hate it when people buy from breeders just because and don't rescue. I get buying from a breeder if you have specific goals - absolutely fine - but if you just decide you want a dog and don't do research beyond reading some reviews, some good, some bad - well. That is the sort of owner that supports BYB.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351855
12/04/19 04:13 PM
12/04/19 04:13 PM
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Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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As I understand it (and I am not an expert) some hip dysplasia is hereditary-at least according to the AKC
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/health/hip-dysplasia-in-dogs.

Also too much protein too soon can accelerate bone growth that is not great for joints-but like most things with health-it's complicated.

Thanks for the post,
MJ

Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: Mary Jane] #351856
12/04/19 04:41 PM
12/04/19 04:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Shilohsmom Offline
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It sounds like this case was a backyard breeder who's pups were not CKC registered. Same thing happens here when they are not AKC registered. These organizations set standards and without such registration there are no standards at all. But that is just one marker to go by when looking for a pup.

The buyer said that before they purchased this pup that they say the breeder had a series of good and bad reviews but decided to go with them anyway. I agree that its possible for a good place to get a bad review but when buying something as important as a puppy, I would have a hard time going with them after seeing bad reviews.

I tend to think the majority of HD is generic but it can also be caused by environmental issues as well.

I would love to see all the backyard breeders out of business. I do support breeders that are working to improve our breed. I also support rescues. There is plenty of great dogs with both.

But like MJ stated, HD is complicated.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351858
12/04/19 07:04 PM
12/04/19 07:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 510
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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That's true. I'm trying to be careful of certain things with Agis to stack the odds in his favour, though I might be ballsing it up (I'm feeding him a large puppy food, not running with him until around 18 mos (he can run while playing on grass) and limiting his exposure to stuff like stairs and controlling his speed when he does do them. Even if he's not predisposed due to genetics, he comes from a few breeds predisposed, so we're trying to be careful.

But to say it's not genetic (at all) is such a crock I laughed! There is certainly at least an element, and a fairly big one.

I think in general if you're getting a puppy off of Kijiji it's probably not well-researched or a good quality breeder. From my limited knowledge of breeders, anyways. Good breeders have a huge role to play in preservation and advancement of breeds, but BYB...UGH


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351860
12/05/19 12:15 AM
12/05/19 12:15 AM
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Posts: 2,461
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Shilohsmom Offline
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I agree Jenn. It sounds like your doing a great job with Agis.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351869
12/06/19 02:07 PM
12/06/19 02:07 PM
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Indra Offline
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There is a hereditary and an environmental component when it comes to hips and elbows. Hips can be influenced in the litterbox, through food, repetitive exercise... but there is absolutely a genetic component as well. There are very clear known "bad hips" producers within the breed.



Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351928
12/15/19 10:00 PM
12/15/19 10:00 PM
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NE Ohio
Selzer Offline
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Selzer  Offline
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I think if it was totally genetic than with the screening that the SV has been doing for a long time, it would have been removed from that gene pool, but it's not. It's polygenic, and therefore you can have two dysplastic dogs produce a litter free of it, and you can have dogs with good to excellent hips produce dysplastic pups. Is it all hereditary? I don't know. I think that if neutering before the growth plates close can cause the long bones to continue to grow, up to a half of an inch more than they naturally would, they are going to fit differently into the hip joints than they naturally would -- that would/could be an incidence of HD that would net be genetic. I have read the study about puppies lying in litter boxes and how that affects their joints, the argument being that in the wild a den would dug and the puppies would be raised in kind of a bowl, where with a litter box it is flat and hard. And yeah, can deterioration happen when folks are pressing to do jumps and a frames and run over hard surfaces before a pup is well grown. And then there is food. Too much protein, too little protein, the calcium/phosphorus ratio. I mean, if you have too much calcium and calcium deposits grow in the joints, that can effect how the joints develop and deteriorate.


Geriatric:
Seniors: Odessa, Joy
Mature Adults: Bear, Hepzibah
Adults: Karma, Cujo 2
Young Adults: Ramona, Kojak
Puppies: Tinuviel, Uzzi, and Kaiah
Whelps: Vera, Vaya(ConDios), VanHelsing, Vlad, Vagrant, Villain, Viking, Vigor

Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #351929
12/15/19 10:24 PM
12/15/19 10:24 PM
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NE Ohio
Selzer Offline
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Couldn't edit, wasn't quick enough. But there is also that maybe the way they test is off, what indicators and at what age, they may show false negatives, and false clears.


Geriatric:
Seniors: Odessa, Joy
Mature Adults: Bear, Hepzibah
Adults: Karma, Cujo 2
Young Adults: Ramona, Kojak
Puppies: Tinuviel, Uzzi, and Kaiah
Whelps: Vera, Vaya(ConDios), VanHelsing, Vlad, Vagrant, Villain, Viking, Vigor

Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #352061
01/02/20 11:27 PM
01/02/20 11:27 PM
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Los Lunas, NM
Kayos Offline

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Kayos  Offline

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Los Lunas, NM
I agree with Selzer.

My first gsd from a byb, Lucky, was dysplastic but lived to a good age with medication.

My heart dog, Kayos, was severely dysplastic. She came a from a good breeder and both parents had good hips. Two brothers had excellent hips. She was so bad the vet that xrayed her at 9 months suggested we not wake her up. We did not euthanize her on the spot. We got a second opinion and replaced her hips at 4 years of age. The dog the vet said put down now lived to almost 14.

Mayhem has one slightly dysplastic hip. But with exercise and supplements you can't tell. She still does agility and will be 8 in 3 months. Pretty sure this is a result of stress on the right hip. At 12 months her hips were fine. At 3 the right hip showed mild HD. She loved to chase squirrels and I think the repetitive motion of bouncing off the fence in a swimmers turn motion affected her hip.

None of my male dogs has ever had HD. Go figure.

Lucky and Kayos were spayed at 7 months, before we knew about growth plates and early altering.

Wolf was neutered at 9 months. His hips were never xrayed. Max, a rescue, was altered at 18 months. Havoc was altered at 16 months.

So yes, definitely a genetic and environmental component.

Last edited by Kayos; 01/02/20 11:30 PM.

Kathy

PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU, RATN 4/4/12
Jeli, (Pembroke Welsh corgi) CGC, RATI 5/13/19

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos, Havoc - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #352073
01/04/20 05:26 PM
01/04/20 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,249
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
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Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
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Wisconsin
Cheyenne had one Grade I hip. She lived to be a grand old age of 14 when she decided that she had had enough of struggling and pain. She was struggling before the house fire, the best thing that happened was she got moved out to the kennel, had more exercise.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Hip dysplasia not hereditary [Re: jarn] #352085
01/06/20 10:37 PM
01/06/20 10:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 510
Toronto, ON
jarn Offline OP
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jarn  Offline OP
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I'm so glad I've posted this article, I've learned lots! Definitely a complex subject.


Jenn
Neb, Xerxes, and Agis
Timothy and Cordelia (kitties)
RIP Luc
RIP Teagan
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