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I Hired a Trainer #350640
05/10/19 11:42 PM
05/10/19 11:42 PM
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Today Gypsy and I met with a trainer. These are individual sessions. One on one. $325 for 5 sessions.

First let me say, I enjoyed meeting her! She was here a couple of hours, we talked about Everything, she made NO attempt to pet Gypsy, fed her a lot of treats, and Gypsy was an Angel! That sounds like an exaggeration, even to me...well she was awfully nosy about Jeanette's purse/bag. But she was all about this new lady with yummy treats! She was up on the couch, nosing as close as she could to that bag of goodness. Jeanette was not a threat, but the bringer of good things, the dispenser of good things. Gypsy laid her head down while on the couch, quite close to Jeanette. She also laid next to me and fell asleep at one point. Very relaxed and at ease. We talked about .about the fear aggression with dogs & people, exploring the world, about being an adolescent, about my methods, about time outs, about rewards vs punishment, about managing vs training. You name it. We talked about commands and collars.

I am excited to begin this journey with Gypsy. To be able to teach her how to get the best out of life. Like I told Jeanette...I don't want or need Gypsy to be best friends with all.the.dogs. or all.the.people even, but I want her to be able to see a dog and move on with no outlandish reaction, and I want her to greet people politely. If I were pressed for a 3rd thing to work on, I would say recall, yet I know GB is young and that takes time and the maturity that comes with it.

Jeanette gave me a lot of praise too! For my determination, and for the things I am already doing with Gypsy. Since Gypsy has been such a handful so far, I know I have to do the work to get her where I want her so I don't have to just manage her like I did with Nadia. So Jeanette didn't have any immediate assignment for me...told me to keep doing what I am doing and she will put a plan together for our other 4 meetings. Just to be able to talk face to face with someone who truly gets this whole thing was awesome for me. Seeing my baby relax like she did was even better smile


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350641
05/11/19 01:29 AM
05/11/19 01:29 AM
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Alexandria, NH
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Good luck with your training.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350642
05/11/19 03:28 AM
05/11/19 03:28 AM
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This sounds like a win-win for everyone! thumbup Can't wait to hear about your next session and Jeanette's plan.


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350649
05/12/19 12:11 AM
05/12/19 12:11 AM
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Bev,

Sounds like a very forward looking plan-and you seem to have found a partner in Jeanette.

Please keep us posted about those next sessions-I can surely learn something.

MJ

Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350661
05/16/19 03:44 PM
05/16/19 03:44 PM
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Jeanette the trainer was here yesterday. She caught me off guard by arriving a little early. Dogs were barking up a storm, Gypsy was terrible. As soon a Jeanette came in, Gypsy seemed to remember this lady was the dispenser of yummy treats and settled down quickly. We basically did a lot of talking again, about things I need to do now to connect the dots for Gypsy. This will be done with clicker training and lots and lots of treats.

We also went out in the back yard. Jeanette stayed on the deck while Gypsy and I went int o the yard and did a few things so J could see where we are in obedience. She was impressed that Gypsy will do a sit/stay while I turn my back and cross the yard with a toy. Gypsy will wait for me to throw the toy, or I can call her to me and she will come sit at my feet in front of me, Schutzhund style.

Next time will be in about 2 weeks, and we will go for a walk. Jeanette will call and let me know she is here and we will go out to meet her on the sidewalk. That will be a challenge for us because she doesn't greet people in her space well, then trainer will follow us on a walk and click then I treat, ending with trainer walking Gypsy while I click and she treats. Not sure how well that will all go, but I am in this for the long haul and will do as she says.

We just played in the rain, but no walking today- not my favorite thing to do is getting drenched. Maybe I will take her to go get Z's food and more treats.


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350662
05/17/19 03:59 AM
05/17/19 03:59 AM
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Hey Bev,
I enjoy hearing about the trials and tribulations Ms. GB offers you. Keep up the good work!

Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: middleofnowhere] #350663
05/17/19 02:24 PM
05/17/19 02:24 PM
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Thanks Middle!!


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350665
05/18/19 04:23 AM
05/18/19 04:23 AM
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Now that I am 'connecting the dots' with clicker training a certain youngster won't do anything without treats crazy

Well, she will do a sit/stay and let me walk with my back turned across the yard with her toy....and then come when called for her toy.

But if she has the toy, she won't drop it without a click and treat. Or anything else without clicks and treats.

And it's hard to play fetch to get her tired when it takes forever to drop a dang ball without clicks and treats.

We went from 3-4 games a day to ONE ... the rest of the day she was pacing and unsettled without sufficient exercise.

Connecting the dots is hard!

(In her defense, she could be feeding off my negative energy- a lot has been going on, as I had to put my mom on Hospice this week)

However, yesterday, I had a meeting with a lady here at the house. Gypsy made friends with her in a very short period of time. And before this lady left, Gypsy had given her kisses and shared her toy with her. That is HUGE for this little girl!
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350667
05/18/19 02:48 PM
05/18/19 02:48 PM
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Can you not use clicker training when playing ball. I would play Two-Ball, have two balls or toys of equal value to Gypsy. Throw one when she brings it back let her see the second ball, normally the dog will drop or even spit out the first toy to have the second one. I use play to teach things like sit or down, I ask for the behavior and when it happens the reward is you throwing the ball.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #350668
05/18/19 10:27 PM
05/18/19 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisc.Tiger_Val
Can you not use clicker training when playing ball. I would play Two-Ball, have two balls or toys of equal value to Gypsy. Throw one when she brings it back let her see the second ball, normally the dog will drop or even spit out the first toy to have the second one. I use play to teach things like sit or down, I ask for the behavior and when it happens the reward is you throwing the ball.


That is what we used to do. Until she figured out there really were two balls. Then she would go after the 1st about halfway , turn and have a stare down with me waiting for the 2nd. I frequently went back in the house because she never went to get the 1st ball. I have been doing clicker training with the ball for a couple days, however I lack the fine motor skills to treat at the right time because I am holding her still, clicking, treating and trying to get the ball picked up before she gets it. So I was trying to just have the treat in my hand down low, where she could drop the ball, get the treat while I grab it. Problem there is she holds the treat in her mouth (I think...she doesn't eat it anyway, no matter how long I wait.) until she is after the ball again and comes back slower looking for what fell out of her mouth. We were so close to her coming back and just dropping it before I started clicker training....and today she was fair. She has come to understand apparently that if I say 'alright', we are headed back in and Then she will drop the dang toy.

After a good game of fetch, she naps. I need those naps times so I can get other things done. Or to just have a little me time to gather my thoughts, etc


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350670
05/20/19 07:10 PM
05/20/19 07:10 PM
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Oh Bev, it is great entertainment for her I am sure. (and for me but likely not so much for you.) Been there.

Have you tried sitting down? Now this can also get problematic as in I have two dogs most likely to out when I am sitting... But it did work for out & two ball. Then I eventually switched to standing and throwing hoses - two hoses. This is basically what Val had to say ----- Have doggo focus on me, throw one hose to my right, dog comes running back with that hose & as soon as she drops it in anticipation of the other hose (Aus! & throw the second hose to the left) repeat. I also have toys - two close to alike. I might play a similar game with them after the hoses. Both these toys have rope handles (for the handler - they don't do anything particularly good for the dog) and the dog prefers one over the other no matter how identical they look to the human. First throw is the least favorite, if she drops it before she gets to me, the other ball does not get thrown. She gets a "get that!" order. When that toy is dropped close enough for me, to prolong this a bit, snatch it up and throw it again (keeping favored toy tucked away). This may happen a couple of times (I use Aus as she drops it and follow quickly with a yes as I do the re-launch.) When I'm thinking close to enough, I will launch the favored toy rather than the one that was just dropped. If she brings it back and releases it, we can do another throw. If she doesn't release it, we tug for a bit and she gets to carry it inside.

OK enough of that --- Don't know if it is helpful or not but there it is.

The ways they find to frustrate their handlers.....


Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350671
05/20/19 08:34 PM
05/20/19 08:34 PM
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I am trying to figure out how to get Gypsy to bring the first toy back to you. Try a short throw with number 1 and then start walking backwards as she starts coming towards you, or throw the first toy and before she start coming back to you turn you back on her and see what she does.

I can't remember having that problem or if I did what did I do to fix it. All of my GSD's had pretty good ball drive.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350672
05/21/19 12:01 AM
05/21/19 12:01 AM
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Looking at Val's response was a bit of a dope slap.

Whew, OK this is an old problem with throwing the frisbie for Barker the Elder the First. Like 1990s. Long line on doggo. Long line on doggo. How could I forget that? Especially when it saved the relatively expensive, nice soft gummy frisbies from being reduced to rubble. You don't need to hold the long line. Your throw can go out further than the line reaches. You can , however, pick up the long line and call doggo back with success. That is how you get the retrieve to work when it has become keep away.... Maybe that will work for you Bev.

Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350676
05/22/19 05:28 PM
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I have gotten to the point that it easier for me to let her walk about sniffing and when she drops it I go get it. Not exactly good training, but keeps me out of the cold and rain for so long. Half the time with her, and of course that long again with Z. I have a 30 foot leash- however can I throw the toy ony 20-25 feet? LOL Nope! It bounces off the trees, she gets tangled, and reeling it back in then clicking and treating...I am not all that haha coordination has never been my strong suit. The least favorite toy works the best. I hold onto the favorite, but I still end up fetching the least fav as she drops it about a mile away (it feels like a mile) because she is so focused on me having that favorite toy. Even if I keep it in a pocket, she knows I have it.

It will all come together eventually, but the first thing that needs to happen is better weather!


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350677
05/22/19 09:50 PM
05/22/19 09:50 PM
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I have been trying different things with G, and over and over again, if she doesn't drop the toy I say "alright let's go in the house" and she instantly drops the ball (I should say Spits.It.Out. ) Too cute, and proof she knows what I am saying.

Meanwhile we are still lacking walks, but her time is filled with marrow bones so keep her busy and prevent misbehaving.

Feels like a win win to me. grin


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350687
05/24/19 03:53 PM
05/24/19 03:53 PM
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Zisso Offline OP
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Okay...

I don't want to start a new thread for this since a have a couple going on....

I am giving thought to having Gypsy spayed. shocked

I know it is preferred to wait until they have their first heat cycle and they are matured around 18 months to 2 years. I know the risk of the growth plates not completely closing this young and....

But...she might be better off being spayed young. She is simply not accepting people or dogs, not calming down when needed, not behaving or learning much of anything She is Soooo defiant. I know a lot of this is because she is still a baby, but these bad habits are becoming ingrained in her and will be a ton more difficult, if not impossible to train her out of later.

So, I need some input. Have any of you spayed young due to behavior issues?


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350688
05/24/19 04:37 PM
05/24/19 04:37 PM
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Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
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Spaying her early will not solve the issues you are dealing with, it might actually make it worse at this stage of her life. You are dealing with a young dog that has soft nerve and fear issues.

You need to change your thinking, there is no magic cure, but a lot of work and trial and error to find something to help her.

Here are some of the things that helped with DeeDee.

Thundershirt, example at the vets office DeeDee was a trembling dog trying to find a corner to crawl into. With her Thundershirt she was super doggie jumping up on the bench then stepping over to the exam table.

It helped center her so to speak, so we could do things, she was more focused less hectic. I could get her to follow command better.

Tranquil-Tabs Herbal supplement that can help calm some dogs down. some times with DeeDee it was just Tranquil-Tabs, some times just Thundershirt and some times both.

Gypsy is hectic because of her nerves, so you need to work really hard on things that can help her. With dogs, I would work on focus on me and leave it. Work the Leave it with the best of the best rewards. She can't learn when her brain is going 110 miles and hour. Make sure she understands "Leave It" before you add the stressful situation. She needs behaviors ingrained that she can go to.

Also get the "T-Touch" training, there are things that can help her. DeeDee's was ear work, it calmed her down.

These aren't the easiest dogs but once you can help her it is very rewarding. DeeDee was very loving and sensitive, so you don't want to get frustrated with her out bursts, she just doens't feel brave enough to deal so she gets tipped over the edge of what she can handle.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350690
05/24/19 05:33 PM
05/24/19 05:33 PM
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Bev I didn't mean this to sound bitchy or harsh, it is just there is no quick answer.

Also you need to be her rock and the strong leader. She needs the strong leader, it is your job to protect her. If she is reacting to a dog, step between her and the dog.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #350692
05/25/19 01:05 AM
05/25/19 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Wisc.Tiger_Val
Bev I didn't mean this to sound bitchy or harsh, it is just there is no quick answer.

Also you need to be her rock and the strong leader. She needs the strong leader, it is your job to protect her. If she is reacting to a dog, step between her and the dog.


Val, I didn't take it that way at all and as a matter of fact you said exactly what I needed to hear. I wasn't sure the spay would help or hurt, and way down was fearing it would be harmful to her behaviors....that it could intensify them. I will admit and own this with every fiber of my being....I get frustrated...I grasp at straws. Dang it....I want so badly to have the easy going pup that learns easily, isn't stubborn, has no fears, and got just the opposite. There are times I am just plain exhausted from her constant on the go, pacing, bugging to do something. She gets more and more time outs these past few days for misbehaving than she does rewards for behaving nicely. She gets Plenty of exercise....plenty of food.... so I try with all my might to think of more things we can try.

Tomorrow begins another challenge that I DREAD. My daughter is coming to town. And staying here of course. She has her 1st dog now, that is 2 years old and this dog has made my daughter an expert. Go figure. She will try telling me what I should do, etc, but things are different for this pup than they were for her pup, so we are bound to clash. Ughh!

Other stress factors going on with me regarding mom and my job seem to hit at the same time G gets out of control so I am working on controlling my own anxieties so she can't feed off them, and yukky weather has been the final straw in the order of our ever so busy days ...


Bev~mom to:
Zisso-DOB 09/16/07
Gypsy Breeze-DOB 10/26/18

R.I.P. Kiki, Nadia, Pepe, and all my other loves from years gone by.
Re: I Hired a Trainer [Re: Zisso] #350693
05/25/19 01:32 AM
05/25/19 01:32 AM
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Hey there, I'm pretty late to this thread. I was reading on Gypsy and your challenges with her. She sounds so much like my Abbey. Abbey was so tough to train. I spent the first few years of her life basically exercising her for a good hour before putting in any training. I'd exercise her for an hour followed by about 30 minutes of training, twice a day. The first years, she was being exercised and trained for 3 hours a day! Whew... and she wasn't even food driven, so I had to come up with something else to use as a reward, which was play.
With Abbey, I learned that a tired dog is a good dog. She's pretty anxious and she has severe anxiety with her yelps and screams if she thinks someone is being left behind or if she's being left behind. Abbey is very smart and can easily outsmart people.
Abbey was spayed about 11 months old, before her heat cycle came in. I can't remember why, but it was something to do with reducing cancer risk. I don't if that is true. I do know it didn't help her nerves because she was an anxious psycho dog before she got spayed.


I will also add... that Abbey is turning 11 years old next month and she's still a defiant smartass dog. But she's so sweet and loves us, and protects my kids if anyone gives her reason to think they will harm my kids. She is still hyper, and doesn't act old although she is on supplements and pain blocker medicine because she developed hip dysplasia. I stopped giving her 3-hour exercises when I got pregnant with my first and it was a slow descent from 3 hrs to 2 hrs exercises, then smaller walks twice daily, sometimes once daily if schedule is too hectic.


From an owner of a hyper, psycho, "all strangers are dangerous", endless ball of energy dog to another, I wish you best luck and can say that things will get better, you've got to keep doing your best.


Abbey: 11 years old German Shepherd

Suki: 11 years old grumpy Calico

Bella: Kitten, Ragdoll

2 little angels/monsters in disguise: My 2 boys
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by Shilohsmom. 12/02/19 04:10 PM
I love my babies
by Shilohsmom. 11/29/19 07:35 PM
December 2019 Photo Contest Entries
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 11/26/19 05:25 PM
Comments for December 2019 Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 11/26/19 05:22 PM
Agis
by jarn. 11/26/19 01:51 AM
Puppy breath I'm thinking
by jarn. 11/25/19 11:40 PM
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
Happy Thanksgiving
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 11/28/19 03:44 PM
World peace thru eating (not political0
by Mary Jane. 11/26/19 06:16 PM
Wheres Middle
by Shilohsmom. 11/22/19 12:15 AM
Weekend plans
by Shilohsmom. 11/16/19 04:43 PM
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