German Shepherd Home
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348664
09/05/18 07:13 PM
09/05/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
I've got to admit this is about as confusing as it gets to me.

Thanks for the info Ruth and its so nice to see you again. Please don't be a stranger around here. I have submitted a request to join that group. I really don't like Facebook and am worried I might not find it helpful.

My concern, is Kody and soon to be, Shoshi will be on TOTW grain free. All the good foods are grain free now. Someone suggested Fromm's but now I see that's on the list. It doesn't matter as Fromm's is only sold in a very high priced pet store here and I simply cannot afford those prices. If I was feeding ONE small dog it would be different, but I have one super large dog (Eli 120+ lbs) and a small GSD, Kody and soon the baby.

Why aren't brands mentioned? Why is that a secret? Both Shiloh and Shoshi were on TOTW and Merrick throughout their lives and both lived to 13.5 years. Eli's been on the same and even with all his issues he will be twelve in November. I think its pretty rare for a dog his size to live as long as he has. All that on grain free food. Now that I think about it, I think way back when it wasn't grain free but I just don't know when things changed.

Honestly, I just don't know what to do. I also can't afford Raw at this time.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348665
09/05/18 07:56 PM
09/05/18 07:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
I just spoke with a lady from TOTW. She said they have always supplemented the dog food with taurine. She said because its become such an issue the new bags are going to start showing that in their Guaranteed Analysis. I feel better about that. What do you folks think?


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348666
09/05/18 08:46 PM
09/05/18 08:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,569
Alexandria, NH
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,569
Alexandria, NH
I'm not trying to belittle the various observations that have been made concerning this condition. But I'm not seeing a lot of numbers associated with some of the articles linked so far. And without hard numbers, it's really hard to judge how widespread the problem really is (some, many, etc don't really tell me anything that puts the information in perspective)

I don't really think 149 cases out of the entire dog population of this country (~89.5 million) is something I would call prevalent. Should we be aware - yes. Should we follow things and see where they lead - yes. Should we all panic - I'm not so sure that is warranted at this stage
.
Who started these studies - did anything originate from one of the big dog food producers. It seems they have been trying to convince everyone that grain free and raw diets are not good for animals that did not evolve to eat what they make as dog food for quite some time.

Yes - I see where it says some vets have made the observations, but I know vets who think it's terrible to feed a raw diet, so how objective are they?

Feed the best you are comfortable feeding and maybe give them some raw meat when you can, so their diet is a bit more natural.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Woodreb] #348668
09/05/18 10:41 PM
09/05/18 10:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,199
Colorado
Kris Offline
Pooh-Bah
Kris  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,199
Colorado
Totally agree with you Johanna! It kind of reminds me when they said we shouldn't eat eggs because they were going to kill us. Now eggs are promoted and good for us! It changes daily and seems to be based on opinion most of the time. My dogs have lived long, healthy lives, so i'll probably continue doing what I've always done. Still interested in the results, but I think they have a long way to go before something is definitive.


Kris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samson, GSD, 10/13/07
Annabel, Keeshond, 4/21/11
Petie, Toy Poodle, 5/5/07
Kitties: Meezer, Bob, Mia and Dewey
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Woodreb] #348669
09/05/18 11:47 PM
09/05/18 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,966
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,966
Ohio
Thank you, Johanna. I agree totally.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348670
09/05/18 11:49 PM
09/05/18 11:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,359
Vancouver Island, BC
Wolfie Offline
Pooh-Bah
Wolfie  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,359
Vancouver Island, BC
Agh, the group is now a closed group. I don't want to join as I am not on Facebook that much.

It is indeed very confusing. Yukon has been fed Fromm since I got him at 8wks. I do occasionally switch to other brands (that list is getting smaller now) for variety and also supplement with raw daily. I can't have him tested as I don't have that kind of money right now (in the process of moving)

He will be 11yrs old at the end of October, I would think if anything were seriously wrong either myself, my mum or vet would have noticed a decline in health and behaviour. He still acts like a 3-4yr old.

I will pop into the store I buy my dog food and see what the owner says about all of this. She is really good at keeping up-to-date on food related issues.


Anita & 11.5yr old Yukon

R.I.P Amber & Cisco:
"Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's a memory
And there you'll always be."
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348671
09/06/18 12:19 AM
09/06/18 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
I agree. I'm not going to worry about any of this right now and I'm not going to have my pups undergo unnecessary testing. Your right, the numbers of dogs affected is small. It will be interesting what they finally stay about this.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348674
09/07/18 01:30 AM
09/07/18 01:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
Hi sorry I posted that and then disappeared. That's what my work life is like now. :p To simplify: although lots of the mods on that FB group are pushing RC and PP, the recommendations from cardiologists is that you choose a food that doesn't have legumes, potatoes, or sweet potatoes in the top 5 ingredients. _It does not matter if the food contains added taurine as it's some combo of the legumes that is inhibiting absorption for some dogs. They really have no idea what is causing this, dogs that shouldn't be getting heart disease are getting it now. Some of these dogs are very young. In some cases multiple dogs in a household (different breeds, different ages) who are eating the same food are getting diagnosed with DCM. If the pet food companies make changes right now it should be to get those legumes out of the main ingredients and some of them are doing that (see below). It is very true that right now it's a statistically insignificant number of dogs who have died or been diagnosed but there is clearly something going on and, since grain free has been around for years, it's something new.

These are the foods so far where at least 1 dog has low taurine AND dilated cardio myopathy. It is not all formulas. If you need more info just PM and I'll look it up:

4 Health
Acana
Blue Buffalo
Canidae
Fromm
PureVita
Nutrisource
Kirkland
Nature's Variety
Petcurean
TOTW
Zignature

I became concerned because Felix was eating Acana and many dogs eating Acana got sick. Felix's energy level dropped dramatically about 4 months after I adopted him. He was diagnosed and treated for both hookworm and erlichiosis but his energy level never came back to his previous level. So when I saw this I thought maybe it was the food. I was kind of shocked when I looked at the ingredients and saw that 8 out of the top 11 ingredients were legumes and legumes were numbers 4-10. When I went to their website just now I saw that they have completely changed their ingredients so that the top 6 ingredients (of the formula I was feeding) are now fish products. I compared it with the old bag and there's a big difference so that's good.

The research got started when cardiologist Joshua Stern (who is a golden owner) noticed there were a lot of goldens coming in with diet-induced DCM. He reached out to cardiologists around the country and together they noticed a trend. There were enough cases there for the FDA to issue several warnings.

If you want to supplement taurine they recommend using whole foods (like sardines or chicken thighs) rather than a powdered supplement.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: BowWowMeow] #348677
09/07/18 02:12 PM
09/07/18 02:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
Thanks Ruth. I sent you a PM. Would like to know what formulas of TOTW are on the list. Unfortunately, only two of their formulas are All Life Stages. The others are all Maintenance formulas.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348678
09/07/18 04:29 PM
09/07/18 04:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,199
Colorado
Kris Offline
Pooh-Bah
Kris  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,199
Colorado
Ruth, you are always such a wealth of information - thank you. I feed NutriSource and have for years because of Sammy's allergies. I just stuck with it because Petie & Annabel do well on it also - or so I think. I am feeding it to Ryder (6 mos.) old also. I did see information that NutriSource is adding taurine, but that doesn't seem to be the problem. I feed the Chicken and Pea, but I'll check out the other formulas.


Kris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samson, GSD, 10/13/07
Annabel, Keeshond, 4/21/11
Petie, Toy Poodle, 5/5/07
Kitties: Meezer, Bob, Mia and Dewey
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Kris] #348685
09/07/18 11:05 PM
09/07/18 11:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
Got your PM Rosa and will send you the data. Here is a good scientific article: https://thesciencedog.wordpress.com/2018/08/30/the-heart-of-the-matter/


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: BowWowMeow] #348686
09/07/18 11:14 PM
09/07/18 11:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
Many thanks Ruth. I look forward to hearing back from you.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348699
09/09/18 05:44 AM
09/09/18 05:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
I took pictures because there was too much information. You can see the formulas on the right. The ones in yellow mean taurine levels were low. You can see in the column next to that whether they had an echocardiogram and what those results were. Hope this helps! Also, there is one dog on there fed Barking at the Moon who was got a very low taurine result but it doesn't look like an echo was done yet.

For those of you who have adopted a wait and see attitude: I urge you to at least see if the formula you're feeding has any dogs with diet-induced DCM.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348963
09/30/18 08:39 PM
09/30/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
Lots of great info added to this thread, thanks Ruth for posting some of that, I meant to, but didn't back to the forum. I think if a food is questionable, it's a safer bet to move away from it, unless there are compelling reasons not to.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: MaxaLisa] #348965
09/30/18 08:53 PM
09/30/18 08:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
S
Shilohsmom Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Shilohsmom  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
S

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,133
I ended up switching my pups to Victors. I know this is all new but I didn't want to take any chances.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348966
09/30/18 08:56 PM
09/30/18 08:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
As an after thought, since I know that a lot of GSDs are picky about their food and switching is not all that easy, taurine can be added to any diet, check the ingredient list and if it's not there, you can add some. I used to add some to indy's diet due to her heart disease.

Rosa, I hope that the new food works out!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #349405
11/24/18 07:48 PM
11/24/18 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #350295
03/03/19 05:10 AM
03/03/19 05:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,585
Northern CA
Updating this sticky....


A few articles from Jean Dodds' Blog:

Dilated Cardiomyopathy (heart disease) in Dogs and Why Some Dogs Eat “Exotic” Ingredients
1/6/2019
https://www.hemopet.org/dcm-heart-disease-dogs-exotic-ingredients/

FDA Updates on Heart Disease in Dogs - this contains further links at the end of the article
2/24/2019
https://www.hemopet.org/fda-updates-heart-disease-dogs/


Tufts update from 11/2018
http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/11/dcm-update/


Website storing a bunch of taurine and DCM info
https://taurinedcm.org/




Last edited by MaxaLisa; 03/03/19 05:11 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: MaxaLisa] #350318
03/04/19 08:04 PM
03/04/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,709
SeanRescueMom Offline
Carpal Tunnel
SeanRescueMom  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,709
Lisa, Thanks for the updates and info. thumbup


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
Ideas for nail trim
by SeanRescueMom. 05/24/19 08:08 PM
Spring hikes
by MaxaLisa. 05/11/19 05:36 PM
I Hired a Trainer
by Zisso. 05/10/19 11:42 PM
Retired police dog saves toddlers
by Shilohsmom. 05/04/19 04:17 PM
May 2019 Photo Contest Entries
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 05/02/19 09:34 PM
Comments for May 2019 Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 05/02/19 09:31 PM
Babsy
by Selzer. 04/29/19 02:50 AM
SIX months
by Zisso. 04/28/19 05:27 PM
Time to Vote for April 2019 Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 04/28/19 05:20 PM
Kody and his feathered friends
by Shilohsmom. 04/24/19 02:59 AM
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
Happy Mothers Day.
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 05/12/19 04:41 PM
Rosa's Sasha
by Kris. 04/25/19 08:18 PM
How is everyone doing?
by Indra. 01/20/19 02:41 PM
Rosa's Hello old Friends, continued part 2
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 01/13/15 03:49 PM
Word Association Game - Part 2
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 01/21/13 03:27 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 6 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
jckd, shdep, Richardgreen, Pytheis, robrvfc13
2953 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics18,237
Posts285,884
Members2,953
Most Online220
Dec 20th, 2018
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1