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FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) #348338
08/06/18 12:48 AM
08/06/18 12:48 AM
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Shilohsmom Offline OP
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They are saying there could be a link between grain free dog food and heart disease.

https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/newsevents/cvmupdates/ucm613305.htm

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 11/24/18 07:50 PM.

Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348339
08/06/18 01:12 AM
08/06/18 01:12 AM
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Vancouver Island, BC
Wolfie Offline
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I wonder which brand each of these dogs were fed, that would be nice to know. It is getting harder and harder to trust ANY dog food.

I am really thinking of just going 100% RAW.

Last edited by Wolfie; 08/06/18 01:13 AM.

Anita

R.I.P Amber, Cisco & Yukon:
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Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's a memory
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Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348340
08/06/18 02:59 AM
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I wish they had mentioned names too. I've just started looking at this and really don't know what to think yet. headbang


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348341
08/06/18 03:05 PM
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I am including a link to a post on the American Veterinarian website. I don't think they are looking at any specific brands, it is more about the whole grain-free diet and the potatoes or multiple legumes as well as their protein, starch, and fiber sources early in the ingredient list, indicating that those were the main ingredients. Also feeding raw doesn't solve the problem they are seeing.
https://www.americanveterinarian.co...en-grainfree-dog-foods-and-heart-disease

I feed a grain free food that is venison and potato, but she gets grains with other things she eats, like I will toss some leftover pasta in her food. I may also go back to adding some cooked Oatmeal in her food.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348342
08/06/18 04:04 PM
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Woodreb Offline
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I read the FDA article and the link that Val posted. Both talk about the problem being related to not enough taurine. The best sources of taurine are muscle meats - so it may not be surprising to find that diets with too much of any kind of carb as a major ingredient is a problem.
That being said, it seems this is a fairly recent study and they are not entirely sure what is the cause of the problem, the link to diet is a theory right now, not a proven fact.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348344
08/08/18 01:17 AM
08/08/18 01:17 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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I have been following this a bit, and the problem appears not exactly to be grain free, but grain free filled with protein fillers like peas and lentils, as I understand it, but it's still not completely clear.

I thought the following were pretty interesting...

https://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/176405475391/fda-dog-heart-disease#.W2BQAtIzrIU

(sorry the next one is so long, it's a FB post - Monica Segal is also one of the few places where you can get taurine not from China)
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2161940860500278&id=216331401727910&refid=17&_ft_=top_level_post_id.2161940860500278%3Atl_objid.2161940860500278%3Athrowback_story_fbid.2161940860500278%3Apage_id.216331401727910%3Aphoto_id.2161940003833697%3Apage_insights.{"216331401727910"%3A{"role"%3A1%2C"page_id"%3A216331401727910%2C"post_context"%3A{"story_fbid"%3A2161940860500278%2C"publish_time"%3A1531665000%2C"story_name"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"object_fbtype"%3A266}%2C"actor_id"%3A216331401727910%2C"psn"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"sl"%3A4%2C"dm"%3A{"isShare"%3A0%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A0}%2C"targets"%3A[{"page_id"%3A216331401727910%2C"actor_id"%3A216331401727910%2C"role"%3A1%2C"post_id"%3A2161940860500278%2C"share_id"%3A0}]}}%3Athid.216331401727910%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1535785199%3A8271782668477390926&__tn__=*s-R

Hope these FB links work...
https://m.facebook.com/comment/replies/?ctoken=1788209067962738_1788214081295570&actor_id=1833821513&ft_ent_identifier=1788209067962738&gfid=AQBoOwhko7r2TV5P&refid=52&_ft_=top_level_post_id.1788209067962738%3Atl_objid.1788209067962738%3Athrowback_story_fbid.1788209067962738%3Apage_id.373471946103131%3Apage_insights.{"373471946103131"%3A{"role"%3A1%2C"page_id"%3A373471946103131%2C"post_context"%3A{"story_fbid"%3A1788209067962738%2C"publish_time"%3A1533079542%2C"story_name"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"object_fbtype"%3A266}%2C"actor_id"%3A373471946103131%2C"psn"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"sl"%3A4%2C"dm"%3A{"isShare"%3A1%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A0}%2C"targets"%3A[{"page_id"%3A373471946103131%2C"actor_id"%3A373471946103131%2C"role"%3A1%2C"post_id"%3A1788209067962738%2C"share_id"%3A0}]}}%3Athid.373471946103131&__tn__=R#comment_form_373471946103131_1788209067962738_reply_1788209067962738_1788214081295570


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
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Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
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Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Wolfie] #348416
08/14/18 03:04 PM
08/14/18 03:04 PM
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jlstudent1970 Offline
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I found out that a good amount were eating Zignatures and Pure Vita. One GSD 3yrs old had CHF, what a shame, the Dr. gave him 6 to 8 months to live, however he is responding well on meds. This dog was feed kangaroo Zignatures. I am sorry I can't say where I got info from b/c it is confidential but I wanted people to know what I found out.

Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348418
08/14/18 10:21 PM
08/14/18 10:21 PM
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I'm not sure what to do here especially with a new pup coming soon. I feed Taste of the Wild. Before I was feeding the different flavors but recently I just switched to their Pine Forrest variety. I did this because I was looking for something different hoping it would help Eli's skin. According to TOTW this receipe includes 'nutrient rich legumes like peas and garbanzo beans.'

I'm not sold on grain free. I'd be fine with a quality food with or without grains.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: jlstudent1970] #348425
08/15/18 12:15 AM
08/15/18 12:15 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted by jlstudent1970
I found out that a good amount were eating Zignatures and Pure Vita. One GSD 3yrs old had CHF, what a shame, the Dr. gave him 6 to 8 months to live, however he is responding well on meds. This dog was feed kangaroo Zignatures. I am sorry I can't say where I got info from b/c it is confidential but I wanted people to know what I found out.


Thanks for that info!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348428
08/15/18 11:52 AM
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I would use a good food with some grain in and or merrick's grain free line don't have lentils, peas or chickpeas. I have heard puppies do better with some grains in their food, especially if there is no known allergy that a vet found. Maybe some one on here can suggest a good grain in diet. Anymore with dog food I don't even know what brand is good.

Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348435
08/15/18 11:40 PM
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Here is my point of view (just my opinion) peas and chickpeas and lentils are high in fiber, which some dogs can't absorb all their nutrients. Also, they boost protein in dog food, which is not good, seems the dogs are getting a good amount of protein from legumes which don't have all the amino acids as meat that they need including taurine which is found in meats. Now, there are wild animals that eat grain, but NEVER legumes that I know of. So in a nut Schell I don't like grain free that much. I looked up some grains for their fiber and protein count and legumes have a lot more fiber and protein. Don't know if that matters in dog food? Maybe the protein level in grain in diets may have more of meat protein count, but not sure. Food for thought.

Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: MaxaLisa] #348443
08/19/18 09:51 AM
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Vancouver Island, BC
Wolfie Offline
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Originally Posted by MaxaLisa
Originally Posted by jlstudent1970
I found out that a good amount were eating Zignatures and Pure Vita. One GSD 3yrs old had CHF, what a shame, the Dr. gave him 6 to 8 months to live, however he is responding well on meds. This dog was feed kangaroo Zignatures. I am sorry I can't say where I got info from b/c it is confidential but I wanted people to know what I found out.


Thanks for that info!



Yes, Thank you! thumbup


Anita

R.I.P Amber, Cisco & Yukon:
"Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's a memory
And there you'll always be."
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348447
08/20/18 12:27 AM
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Shilohsmom Offline OP
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The problem is all the top foods I've found so far have been 'grain free'. Paul just left so I'll have some time to begin looking at this. Anyone familiar of a good quality food that's not grain free?


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348475
08/25/18 06:00 AM
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Fromm is a good choice. They have a large selection to choose from and they are a reputable company.


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Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348584
08/31/18 08:35 PM
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Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348585
09/01/18 12:36 AM
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That was a great article. Thanks for posting. For once its nice to not see our GSDs on the list of breeds most affected.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Kody and Sasha
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh, Shoshi and Eli
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Shilohsmom] #348643
09/05/18 01:39 AM
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Hi all -- I have been discussing this very issue in a PM with Lori and Deb and wanted to let people know about the FB group on this topic. It is run by the cardiologist who is leading the research, a couple of vets and some golden people. In addition to the foods mentioned above the #1 food correlated with DCM is Acana. It's not all varieties of Acana but it's a lot of them. Fromm is also on there (including some grain inclusive Fromm) and lots of other foods. They are advising if you are feeding any foods with the suspect ingredients in the top 5 (legumes, potatoes, sweet potatoes) that you have your dog's whole blood tested BEFORE switching foods. There are instructions for the blood testing in that FB group. Thus far it's affected more goldens than other breeds but gsds, other breeds, and mixes have been affected too. I think it's very important to get the word out. My new guy (a blue heeler) was on Acana but I switched him before I knew to get the blood test. I have found figuring out kibble such a headache now that I'm switching him primarily to raw. The FB group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1952593284998859/

Beware that it's heavily moderated and they will delete comments with no warning. They are pushing Royal Canin and some of the Purina foods but there are people suggesting other foods. Take a look at the files on dogs who have been tested.


Ruth

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http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

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Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: BowWowMeow] #348645
09/05/18 02:05 AM
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Thanks for the information, Ruth. Who is the veterinarian running the page? And the cardiologist's name? I just requested to join, but those two people aren't standing out to me in the list of admins and/or moderators. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds... Congrats on your new pup!!


Kris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samson, GSD, 10/13/07
Annabel, Keeshond, 4/21/11
Petie, Toy Poodle, 5/5/07
Kitties: Meezer, Bob, Mia and Dewey
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: Kris] #348653
09/05/18 04:59 AM
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Hi Kris! Dr. Joshua Stern out of UC Davis is the cardiologist and the vet is not someone I have ever heard of but she seems to spend a lot of time moderating. Now they are contradicting their original advice and saying that because breeds and mixes other than goldens haven't necessarily shown the low taurine, taurine levels may not be a predictor of DCM and that the only way to know for sure is to do an Echo! Really scary stuff. I've put Felix (new guy) on sardines now. Hopefully he is ok. :-(

This is the summary of a webinar put on by the "Pet Food Industry" and the FDA today:

They have 149 DCM cases (160) dogs, 35 deaths - 90% are on grain-free diets or boutique food. They are seeing dogs with low Taurine and not.

Three kinds of DCM:
1 - Standard DCM - genetic in particular breeds
2 - Taurine deficiency and DCM - both typical and atypical breeds
3 - Diet associated, not Taurine deficient- both typical and atypical breeds

They recommend the following if you have been diagnosed:

Report to the FDA
Keep track of diet history
Save the food
Measure the Taurine levels
Standard Taurine supplementing (levels recommended by vet)
Changing diet - do so by talking to your vet, cardiologist, or nutritionist —do not take recommendations from pet stores
Repeat the ultrasound, echo in 3-4 months (changes, if they happen, may take 6-9 months to be seen)

Companies have not been specifically notified that may be implicated as suspicious diets. They have reached out to a few companies, but did not mention specifically. Most companies were made aware through the Pet Food Industry (PFI). Some of the boutique and small companies may not be members of the PFI.


Last edited by BowWowMeow; 09/05/18 05:05 AM.

Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: FDA Warning on Dog food - DCM and taurine(?) [Re: BowWowMeow] #348663
09/05/18 07:05 PM
09/05/18 07:05 PM
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Kris Offline
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Thanks so much Ruth! As usual, your explanation is so much easier to follow than their's. It just seems like it's changing so quickly - add taurine, no - don't add taurine. I joined the group so will be watching carefully. I didn't realize that this was such a prevalent condition in dogs?


Kris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samson, GSD, 10/13/07
Annabel, Keeshond, 4/21/11
Petie, Toy Poodle, 5/5/07
Kitties: Meezer, Bob, Mia and Dewey
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