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Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: MaxaLisa] #345086
09/06/17 12:12 AM
09/06/17 12:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Karin  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I personally don't think neuros are super helpful unless you're going to do the MRI and all sorts of testing, and then do different drug therapies.


Well, we just got back from our visit to the veterinary neurologist and Lisa, you're absolutely right! She said that she thought Heidi's problems were all behavioral but that they could do a spinal tap and MRI to see if there were any problems, but she said it would probably come back normal. I definitely don't want to subject Heidi to that at age 12. It was stressful enough for her just to go through the examination!

She also didn't seem too interested in the videos that we brought to show her and when I asked about hypothyroidism (since Heidi's results were low-normal), she said that wouldn't cause any behavioral issues or anxiety issues, let alone seizures. She said that the main symptom would be low activity.

Everything I've been reading says that anxiety issues (and seizures) can be caused by low thyroid, and sometimes even weight loss can be a result of it (contrary to the weight gain that is common). Plus Heidi's coat is very dull.

She said that they could prescribe trazadone for her anxiety, but I think we should stick with the valium in the times when she is really, really agitated. So, we're back to square one again.

I think I might contact our regular vet and see if she would agree to a trial prescription of a low dose of Thyro Tabs, like Keefer is taking, just to see if it does anything...


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345087
09/06/17 12:28 AM
09/06/17 12:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Karin  Offline OP
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Here is one of the videos where Heidi is repeatedly lifting her nose up in the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVDV9hdIv9s&feature=youtu.be


Last edited by Karin; 09/06/17 12:29 AM.

Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345088
09/06/17 01:25 AM
09/06/17 01:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,608
SeanRescueMom Offline
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Just out of curiosity, have you ever noticed if Heidi does that when she's outside before a storm or fluctuating temperature change? Sean had seizures and would do the exact same thing in the yard, as Heidi did in the video, but only before a storm front.


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: SeanRescueMom] #345090
09/06/17 01:45 AM
09/06/17 01:45 AM
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Shilohsmom Offline
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I've been following this thread with concern but everytime I go to write I get distracted. sleep

I'm so sorry Heidi is having such problems. As far as the eating, this might be a long shot but have you had her teeth checked? With age comes more dental issues. How are her lips? Sometimes Shoshi has sore lips so I put some meds on them and that helps. For any meat that I add I tend to warm it first in the microwave. It makes it smell more and attracts the pup.

I know Heidi is in good hands. Please keep us posted. Oh, the weathers been so hot that likely will be affecting her too. My pups are miserable here with all the heat.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Eli and Kodiak
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh and Shoshi
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: SeanRescueMom] #345094
09/06/17 04:49 AM
09/06/17 04:49 AM
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San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Karin  Offline OP
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That's interesting that Sean had the same type of head tilts. I really don't think this is a behavioral issue because it seems to be an involuntary movement and something that is so different that she just started out of the blue. I'll have to keep an eye on any weather changes. This has only happened to her when she's been inside the house. And it doesn't seem like it was related to weather, but I will make a note of it if it happens again.


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345095
09/06/17 04:53 AM
09/06/17 04:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Thanks for your reply, Rosa. Heidi's teeth were checked and cleaned a while back. Her lips are pretty floppy these days so who knows, maybe they are sore too! It's tough to get old! And yes, this weird, horribly hot weather is no doubt making things worse for her. We recently got a wall A/C in the living room, and that's where we're spending our time, with the A/C running all day. I'm going to hate to see our next PG&E bill!! Thank you for the kind words and good thoughts.


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345096
09/06/17 04:56 AM
09/06/17 04:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Here's another video of the tremors she was having last week. This is also a new thing and another thing I don't think is "behavioral" because it's a rhythmic shaking. She'll shake and then stop, and shake and stop, etc. It's different from the constant shivering/shaking she does when she's really scared.

https://youtu.be/qWxsQS9t-CU

By the way, her liver values (ALT) were on the high side in her blood panel. Is milk thistle a good supplement for this sort of thing? Does anyone have a good brand they recommend? Thanks!


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345099
09/06/17 01:39 PM
09/06/17 01:39 PM
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Posts: 2,608
SeanRescueMom Offline
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I tried to watch the video but got a message that it is private and I have to sign in. Do you have any idea why this may have happened?


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: SeanRescueMom] #345100
09/06/17 01:47 PM
09/06/17 01:47 PM
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Shilohsmom Offline
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I'm getting the same private message when I try to see the video.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Eli and Kodiak
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh and Shoshi
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Shilohsmom] #345102
09/06/17 02:53 PM
09/06/17 02:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Karin  Offline OP
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This is the first time I've posted anything to YouTube. I must have done it right by dumb luck the first time! I think I fixed it:

https://youtu.be/OYPYCXIFcKU


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345115
09/07/17 01:29 AM
09/07/17 01:29 AM
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SeanRescueMom Offline
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It's working now! I can see the shaking but because her head is down it's difficult to see if there's any change in her facial expression.
Can you tell if her expression is different than when she was putting her nose up in the air doing the head tilts?


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: SeanRescueMom] #345117
09/07/17 01:35 AM
09/07/17 01:35 AM
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Shilohsmom Offline
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I can see it now too. Not sure what could be going on but wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and Heidi and hoping for only good news.


Rosa

Proud Mom to Eli and Kodiak
and never to be forgotten, Shiloh and Shoshi
Every dog deserves to have a human that thinks its the greatest dog that ever lived!
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Shilohsmom] #345125
09/07/17 12:35 PM
09/07/17 12:35 PM
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Mary Jane Offline
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Thinking about you two, as well. (Heidi, that's a very pretty collar).

MJ

Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Mary Jane] #345143
09/08/17 09:37 PM
09/08/17 09:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 909
San Jose, California
Karin Offline OP
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Thanks for your replies, everyone! As far as facial expression goes, it's the same as her usual expression. She usually has her mouth open and is panting a bit. She hasn't done the nose tilts for at least a week, thank goodness!

Also, I've read that sometimes rosemary can cause seizures in dogs. I think there is something to that because I noticed that the nose tilting seemed to happen more often when we were giving her rosemary and turmeric treats. One thing I've discovered is that it is VERY hard to find any kind of dog food or treat that doesn't contain rosemary oil, rosemary extract or rosemary leaves. They say that the oil and extract is more potent and more likely to cause problems. And when you see "mixed topherols" or "natural flavorings," chances are that rosemary is in the food. It's considered a "natural preservative," which seems to be popular right now. In any case, I've been doing my best to avoid rosemary completely and I actually think it has helped.


Karin and Dave

Heidi, 12-year-old GSD
Adopted on 10/14/07 from: German Shepherd Rescue of Northern California (http://www.savegsd.org)

Sheba, GSD/Malamute angel
Re: Seizures in a senior dog? [Re: Karin] #345154
09/09/17 09:24 PM
09/09/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Do you have copies of all the recent bloodwork (aside from thyroid)?

I would NEVER trust a neuro that said seizures are not linked to a low thyroid. Who is training these people???? Finding good "professional" help is so hard these days, for dogs and people. I have been disappointed by all of the neuros I have consulted with for dogs and humans.

You can Google and find info on that. There are all sorts of neuro issues that can come from hypothyroidism, including seizures. Now, it may be true that you won't see them in severe form with low normal values, but that doesn't mean that having optimal thyroid function won't help treat any neuro disease.

With jazz's seizures the vet ruled out tick disease, later I had them rule out myasthenia gravis though no one really thought she had it. I put her on the most pure homeprepared diet that I could, and we still treated with doxy for other things. I put her on neuro supportive supplements. Jazz does have a history of two types of clostridium infections, as well as topical staph. Flagyl of all things helps with the tremors, as does doxy, but there is now (oops, meant was NO) evidence of infection when these were started (long story).

There are some random studies that point to gut infections like H pylori triggering or making parkinson's worse, as well as some clostridium strains maybe implicated in MS. Based on those studies, and experience here, for any dog I have, or human even, I am going to look for gut infection in any neuro disease (after testing for TBD), and if I don't find any still treat and note response. This is something neither allopathic nor holistic vets/doctors would endorse outright, though the reason we did some treatment was due to consultation with our internal medicine specialist since jazz has IBD and also neuro issues. Anxiety is the tip of iceburg wink

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 09/09/17 09:30 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

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Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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