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Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: Codmaster] #344706
07/13/17 01:09 PM
07/13/17 01:09 PM
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Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
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Kayos said "in real life" not at shows. Yes, you did misunderstand and you brought your past condescending self to the post.

I see some things never change. I should have stayed with my first thought and not responded to you.

In REAL LIFE those are reasons I would not leave my dog out of sight in public.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: PositiveDog] #344707
07/13/17 04:43 PM
07/13/17 04:43 PM
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middleofnowhere Offline
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CM - That's the long down. In the BH the handler leaves the dog as in goes out of sight until called back by the judge.

There are reasons to train for this and there are reasons to not do it in real life. Depends on the dog, the situation, the handler -- all situations require evaluation.

Once a well meaning person decided to walk my dog when I had left her in a down stay. She got an earful from me.

Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: PositiveDog] #344708
07/13/17 08:01 PM
07/13/17 08:01 PM
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Codmaster Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Kayos said "in real life" not at shows. Yes, you did misunderstand and you brought your past condescending self to the post.

I see some things never change. I should have stayed with my first thought and not responded to you.

In REAL LIFE those are reasons I would not leave my dog out of sight in public.


Bonnie - Excuse me for missing "Real Life" did I also miss where she said "not at shows"?

Thank you for noticing it - another nice insult again from you as well. = "past condescending self"! I really wish you had stayed with your "first thought" and stayed out of it as well. But "some things never change".

Just out of my curiosity does your stage name "positive dog" reflect your training approach. Please stay cool - no condencession intended - just curious.

As far as training a dog to be able to hold a stay out of sight or not - up to the trainer to decide; with my own dogs and the ones I have seen personally; it is just a matter of training and the dogs nerves.

I agree that some dogs would have difficulty in being able to do this - either in public or in a trial. Nerve/confidence issue for some. If I had a dog with this problem, I certainly would not push them to do it. As far as fearing stealing a dog or hurting a dog or poisoning a dog - WOW! I would not leave my dog in a public spot where I was afraid this would happen - must be a terrible neighborhood for sure. In fact, I would not like to even train my dog at all in such a location. We did a lot of training in a nearby city's streets and never even considered such problems.

Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: middleofnowhere] #344709
07/13/17 08:08 PM
07/13/17 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: middleofnowhere
CM - That's the long down. In the BH the handler leaves the dog as in goes out of sight until called back by the judge.

There are reasons to train for this and there are reasons to not do it in real life. Depends on the dog, the situation, the handler -- all situations require evaluation.

Once a well meaning person decided to walk my dog when I had left her in a down stay. She got an earful from me.


Yes it is the "Long Down" and a fun exercise to train a dog for, esp. when the two dogs are good friends. Great distraction!

Doing it "in real life" whatever that means to anyone - in a public street, in a crowded training class, in a crowded back yard, in a parking lot, vets office or anywhere; to me is a great way to "Proof" the stay behavior.
Of course i would never recommend that anyone do it where their dog could be in danger! That would really be stupid. Like having a dog practice a stay right next to a busy highway!!!!!!

Having someone try to walk your dog - WOW!
I can imagine what I would have said. I don't think he would have went with a stranger however, but from the looks of my old guy I don't think that very many people would have tried to pick up his leash at any rate.

Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: Codmaster] #344710
07/13/17 08:17 PM
07/13/17 08:17 PM
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Bonnie - never mind my question in my post above about your training approach - I saw your website. Thanks.

Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: Codmaster] #344716
07/16/17 02:30 AM
07/16/17 02:30 AM
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Personally, I don't think training methods are the issue. I know people personally who have put their dog into the ring for group stays knowing full well their dog isn't ready. What's worse is that a dog I'm thinking of specifically is NOT okay with other dogs. And this person has no problem using punishment to train (and we all know I'm a cookie-pusher as far as methodology goes). IMHO, from what I've seen, it's more that people aren't willing to put forth the effort to properly train their dogs and they put them in the ring before they're ready.

With Risa's history, I would not ask her to do group stays. If all the dogs could hold position, she could do it just fine and there wouldn't be an issue. HOWEVER, I know who my dog is. For her, that's an extremely stressful situation even though she has the training. I would not want her to feel afraid in the ring; it's supposed to be her safe place. If another dog broke and came over to her, I would not want her to feel concerned for her safety (which she might). I also would not want to potentially ruin someone else's dog's good time in the ring if Risa were to overreact to a dog approaching her. Therefore, I long ago decided that I will not put her in that situation. Period. If everyone really thought about the potential repercussions of their actions (or their dog's actions), I don't think we'd have some of the issues we do.

That being said, I won't miss them any more than I miss the Honor in rally.


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Re: New AKC Obedience Regs? [Re: DancingCavy] #344762
07/17/17 08:02 PM
07/17/17 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: DancingCavy
Personally, I don't think training methods are the issue. I know people personally who have put their dog into the ring for group stays knowing full well their dog isn't ready. What's worse is that a dog I'm thinking of specifically is NOT okay with other dogs. And this person has no problem using punishment to train (and we all know I'm a cookie-pusher as far as methodology goes). IMHO, from what I've seen, it's more that people aren't willing to put forth the effort to properly train their dogs and they put them in the ring before they're ready.

With Risa's history, I would not ask her to do group stays. If all the dogs could hold position, she could do it just fine and there wouldn't be an issue. HOWEVER, I know who my dog is. For her, that's an extremely stressful situation even though she has the training. I would not want her to feel afraid in the ring; it's supposed to be her safe place. If another dog broke and came over to her, I would not want her to feel concerned for her safety (which she might). I also would not want to potentially ruin someone else's dog's good time in the ring if Risa were to overreact to a dog approaching her. Therefore, I long ago decided that I will not put her in that situation. Period. If everyone really thought about the potential repercussions of their actions (or their dog's actions), I don't think we'd have some of the issues we do.

That being said, I won't miss them any more than I miss the Honor in rally.


You are one of the few thoughtful and honest owners of dogs! And I agree with you about the reasons for the issues!

I also did not show in a class with a group stay (although we did do the ScH with the Long Down and he was good) because I knew him at the time and if a dog challenged him = FIGHT. Little dogs or friendly ones running up to him was fine but aggression was not going to work - so no Groups. GSD would probably get blamed!

The AKC actually cited the variety of methods (not naming them of course) in their reasons for the changes. I would agree it is more the trainer and application of the method.

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