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Behavioral guidelines for vets #338163
01/01/16 05:23 PM
01/01/16 05:23 PM
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Mary Jane Offline OP
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My animal hospital referred me to these guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Association. At first glance, I find them pretty comprehensive and positive: Behavioral guidelines for vets.

MJ

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: Mary Jane] #338170
01/02/16 12:16 AM
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Thanks Mary Jane.

There was some very interesting information in the reference.

But I really do hope that my vet doesn't believe and worse try to follow some of the stuff in this document. Way too "Positive" for me and my dog and wouldn't work for him for a lot of things. The advice there probably would work for some dogs I am sure.

But it was very interesting to hear what vets are being told - esp. about any fear and aggression in dogs.

n Personally I think that a behaviorist/trainer used to working with large potentially aggressive dog breeds would be a much better choice, but just an opinion based on my own experience.

And my vet and the techs there are very, very good with my dog even though he can be a pain some times.

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: Codmaster] #338179
01/02/16 09:14 AM
01/02/16 09:14 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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I didn't have a chance to read the guidelines, but it doesn't surprise me that Sophia Yin was listed as one of the authors (what a loss!). I hope to get a chance to read it later smile


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: MaxaLisa] #338205
01/03/16 02:50 PM
01/03/16 02:50 PM
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BasiaBear Offline
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Yes, RIP Sophia Yin. She lives on in her work though! Thanks for sharing, Mary Jane.


Danielle
~Basia
~Amadeus
Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: BasiaBear] #338210
01/03/16 11:13 PM
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Sophia Yin - that would seem to make sense, I guess. I didn't notice her name either.

As I mentioned, glad that my vet didn't read the article (or pay attention to it, at any rate). And he and his vet tech/office staff seemed to be able to handle my guy very well.

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: Codmaster] #338222
01/04/16 02:53 PM
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I saved it to read thoroughly later. I did scan it. Some good info there.


Kathy

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Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: Kayos] #339751
03/31/16 05:15 AM
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I finally got a chance to look through the guidelines a bit more, and I still hope that my vet doesn't read it or at least doesn't follow it very much!

I might have just missed it in the article, but I didn't see much about the role genetics (Absolute Key) and/or breed (much difference between these?) plays in a dog's behavior!

(I ignore cats only because I don't know much if anything about them but do believe breed/genetics would also play a big role in a particular cats behavior).

Authors also seem to be of the opinion that a dogs fear/anxiety are the big cause of their behavior - sounds like a number of trainers we have run into in our local obedience training club.

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: Codmaster] #339752
03/31/16 02:36 PM
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Of course, here I am liking the article that CM doesn't like! And liking it for the reasons he dislikes it!

I liked the article - I didn't read it in depth but appreciate that, especially in context of a vet's office, fear can be a big factor in dogs behavior.

Ironically, I do have to ask most female staff (because they seem to be the ones to do it) not to "coo" at my dogs. That's anxiety producing for them which may be wierd but it is. Up beat and matter of fact seem to do best for my crew. The article seems to miss that.

Looking back over the years, I had one dog needing immediate vet care appear in my back yard. The vet saved his life and that dog was a big fan of vets. We had training class outside the building a bit later and getting him to walk past that door was a challenge. He wanted to go in so bad. He taught my other dog that the vet was a good place.

Another dog I got as a pup was another vet fan. This was in part due to a particular receptionist who simply had a way with this dog. Ever after, she never saw a vets office that she didn't love - to the point of clearing the high counters (not by jumping but by sweeping stuff off of them in enthusiasm.)

Owners seem to miss the point that holding a soothing your dog in these situations (anxiety producing ones) only ups the anxiety. I don't see that so much here but at some clinics with smaller waiting rooms, it was chronic. Hold muffy and pet muffy as muffy's trembling increases with every stroke and codling word.

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: middleofnowhere] #339754
03/31/16 05:59 PM
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Guess it might depend on ones dog - whether fear/anxiety plays a big role in their behavior. I don't have a dog who has ever shown much if any fear about new things and people. In fact I can only remember a couple of my past GSDs who were the least bit fearful of new things. I have been lucky I guess in having GSDs with a breed standard temperament (sometimes a bit fast acting but certainly not fearful).

And it seems to me that too many people are way too quick to attribute dogs reaction/behavior/temperament to "Fear/Anxiety" and treat them accordingly.

Interestingly enough, a couple of years ago I attended a training seminar with a world class Obedience trainer who I believe had a great approach to training/behavior. She said "Train the dog in front of you - don't worry about or try to figure out the "Why" of your dogs behavior - just the "What". Worked great as she did many successful demos with dogs from the audience.

Too many trainers worry about the "Why" and attribute the behavior to things like "Fear" and/or "Anxiety" - esp. the ones we have encountered in our local Ob circles.

Perfect example was when we were doing "Down Stay" at a distance away. Every time a dog broke the stay, one instructor we had would explain it by saying"Your dog got anxious and scared and that is why he/she would not stay". An excuse! Maybe just needed a reminder that the dog HAD to stay where and for how long it was told to (once it knew the command). Much easier and more effective to train this way and seemed to work.

Same thing with behavior at a vet I think, at least with my own current and past dogs. I did have to explain to some vet techs that they need to appear confident and in charge with some dogs; and also not to stare at them (in a "hostile' manner) as it can be a challenge to some dogs.

Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: middleofnowhere] #339755
03/31/16 06:03 PM
03/31/16 06:03 PM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: middleofnowhere
Of course, here I am liking the article that CM doesn't like! And liking it for the reasons he dislikes it!

I liked the article - I didn't read it in depth but appreciate that, especially in context of a vet's office, fear can be a big factor in dogs behavior.

Ironically, I do have to ask most female staff (because they seem to be the ones to do it) not to "coo" at my dogs. That's anxiety producing for them which may be wierd but it is. Up beat and matter of fact seem to do best for my crew. The article seems to miss that.

Looking back over the years, I had one dog needing immediate vet care appear in my back yard. The vet saved his life and that dog was a big fan of vets. We had training class outside the building a bit later and getting him to walk past that door was a challenge. He wanted to go in so bad. He taught my other dog that the vet was a good place.

Another dog I got as a pup was another vet fan. This was in part due to a particular receptionist who simply had a way with this dog. Ever after, she never saw a vets office that she didn't love - to the point of clearing the high counters (not by jumping but by sweeping stuff off of them in enthusiasm.)

Owners seem to miss the point that holding a soothing your dog in these situations (anxiety producing ones) only ups the anxiety. I don't see that so much here but at some clinics with smaller waiting rooms, it was chronic. Hold muffy and pet muffy as muffy's trembling increases with every stroke and codling word.


I think the "soothing" depends on how you do it. The "coddling" of dogs in this situation usually is bad news. But a lot of dogs do want assurances from their owners, and that might look different for each dog.

I've found with jazz, there are certain she needs to be held (kinda like the theory of a tight thundershirt), and other times she just needs to work it out on her own, yet still needs the assurance that I am there. And when her anxiety goes through the roof, I do have to ground her.

But that icky coddling, much like the "coo'ing" you talk about Middle, does not help at all. I've infortunately seen the opposite at least as often - a fearful dog, practically emotionally abandoned by their own, right when they are needed, often on the advice of trainers.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Behavioral guidelines for vets [Re: MaxaLisa] #339759
03/31/16 07:59 PM
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If I had a dog who was "fearful" or "Anxious" about a new situation, I suspect that the best way to handle it would be to project an "Everything is cool and under control" attitude to the dog. I.E. you, the owner, got it all under control so no reason to be worried.

My current GSD is very self confident in any situation that we have seen, so far; so this hasn't ever been a problem. He has a few times gotten very excited about a few things (i.e. when we pull up to the training location and he gets very "Up" and anxious to get onto the field). Talking to him and waiting seems to work in this situation pretty well.

Sort of same thing as with a child or other person who might be getting upset/scared in a new situation.

Might also need to "snap" either out of their current mental state if they are really "losing it", before projecting the "I got it" attitude.

But then we all know our own dogs best, so I would assume we ought to be able to figure out the best way to handle them if they do get upset about something.


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