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Anyone have experience with this? #314698
05/01/14 11:33 PM
05/01/14 11:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,939
Illinois
Sage's mom Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Sage's mom  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,939
Illinois
Spondylosis and Lumbosacral disease?

Some of you know Sage has been having issues on and off since November. No pain response when moving anything, recently a lot of pain only when putting weight down to walk/stand, rear end lameness in one leg, wobbliness, slow/unable to correct when paw is flipped...

After a dozen vet visits, switching vets, tests, etc.. They mentioned possible Lumbosacral disease but said there are a lot of spinal issues that could cause these symptoms as well. Sage has a chiropractor visit Monday so the vet wants to wait a week and see how he responds after that and by then he will have had 2 weeks of rest, rimadyl, and tramadol. Eventually we're going to end up at a specialist and getting an MRI.

When he was x-rayed in November there were only very early signs of spondylosis.. fusing of his spinal cord at T13 and L1 right at the center of his back. The view and quality of the x-ray from our previous vet did not show the area of the spine and pelvis meeting.

Now if I'm understanding all of this right Lumbosacral disease is where the spinal cord and pelvis meet and friction causes nerve damage that leads to the rear end issues and pain. Spondylosis is the fusing of the spinal cord that will also cause issues but little pain and will progress and eventually limit mobility.

I am trying not to freak out and jump to conclusions. I know Sage has spondylosis. I had assumed since he's so young (will be 5 next month) that he would be an old man before there were noticeable mobility issues. Now he may have Lumbosacral disease on top of it? I can't find any information on treatment for young dogs with this. I read there are surgical options but recovery is painful and lengthy so usually treated with pain meds to keep seniors comfortable and would surgery even be recommended for a dog with spondylosis too?

Sage is not a dog that can sit around and do nothing. This on and off restricted activity for the last few months has been tough on him and me. This was the first time he was in so much visible pain too. He's too young and otherwise in great health. I am not prepared to see my boy start declining teary


-Brandi

Sage 6-5-09 -- 6-25-19

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Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: Sage's mom] #314715
05/02/14 09:23 AM
05/02/14 09:23 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Oh Brandi hugging hugging I don't know anything about this but sending you and your sweet boy so many positive thoughts grouphug


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
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Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: bianca] #314719
05/02/14 11:43 AM
05/02/14 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
This is a really detailed article but I think you will get a lot out of it: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vet...e/detail/169902

From it -

Affected dogs are often large-breed older dogs, with German shepherds being overrepresented.8,12,18-20

Plain radiography is also useful in identifying anatomical anomalies of the vertebrae such as transitional vertebrae, or vertebrae with anatomical features characteristic of the two different regions of the vertebral column (Figures 2 & 3).

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=189&A=3457&S=0

I am sorry - I hate back issues.

Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #314727
05/02/14 01:23 PM
05/02/14 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I've but a few minutes right now...

I would want to gather all the blood tests and compare them, I'm assuming from your post that recent bloodwork has been done.

I would want to send a panel to protatek and check for toxo and the other neuro disease I can't think of right now, as well as a tick panel.

Looks like the doxy had an improvement, until recently?
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/300344/2

I would definitely see the chiro too.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: MaxaLisa] #314728
05/02/14 01:28 PM
05/02/14 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
What have been the recent tests you've done?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: MaxaLisa] #314828
05/04/14 01:40 AM
05/04/14 01:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,939
Illinois
Sage's mom Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Sage's mom  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,939
Illinois
Thanks for the links Jean!

Lisa,

Our new vet ran another blood panel and tick check. Again everything was in normal levels and negative for anything on the tick panel. Somehow I didn't see the last post on the old thread about sending bloodwork off. I'm going to speak to the vet about that this week on our followup visit. I feel like the doxy only seemed to cause an improvement and it was just that his pain went away. This latest episode Sage seemed to improve at the same rate with rest and pain meds. He seemed okay today. No sign of pain and normal gait but I'm still keeping him on rest. I am hearing his back make crack/popping sounds a lot.

The new vet didnt run many extra tests just bloodwork and gave him a very thorough examination and then another follow up the next week. They checked his response on paws being flipped, movement, vision, ears, teeth, his whole body for any abnormalities. Stuff my previous vet did not do in the exam room but claimed to do when he was there for x-rays.

We have the chiropractor appointment Monday morning and will hopefully have more information then. Another followup with our new vet this week as well. I have a couple options for acupuncture that I'm waiting to speak to the chiro about before making an appointment.


-Brandi

Sage 6-5-09 -- 6-25-19

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Re: Anyone have experience with this? [Re: Sage's mom] #314838
05/04/14 05:32 AM
05/04/14 05:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I would look at the blood tests and see if there are any values near the edges. Also, the tick tests don't show that there are no tick diseases, for a variety of reasons, the most direct one being that we don't have tests for all the tests tick diseases out there, they are being discovered at a pretty quick rate, relatively speaking. Would have to know the type of test too, as PCRs have a much higher level of false negatives. I would double check to see if sage was tested for toxoplasmosis and neospora, both can cause neuro symptoms and are not on routine screens. Doxy does not treat those.

Improvement on doxy can be from the anti-inflammatory effect rather than the antibiotic effect, so it can be tricky.

Back disease is tough. It's paainful, and GSDs are very stoic, so it's hard. Very glad that you'll be seeing the chiro.

What supplements are you using currently?

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 05/04/14 08:04 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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