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Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310775
03/13/14 08:28 PM
03/13/14 08:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
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Even if it wasn't "balanced," he's still absorbing more bioavailable nutrients on his raw diet than he'd have available to him on any "premium" grain-free. All foods we feed are very high in omega 6, as everything's agri-farmed, corn-fed meat. I'm sure Renji is getting a balancing omega-3 such as fish oil, yes? On that note, is he getting any flax oil? It's an itch-producer for many dogs, Goldens famously so. Another itch culprit can be joint supplements made for humans, as all the coatings to make them palatable for us, and the fillers used to make a nice-to-swallow pill-shape, can cause serious itchies in dogs. This was the case with my last senior. Only doggy joint supplements for my dogs from now on, even though others may have gotten away with giving human-intended joint supplements to their dogs. Just a consideration.

I really hope that the Prozac helps, and that you and your vet can isolate exactly what your Renji needs.


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Braverhund] #310781
03/13/14 11:03 PM
03/13/14 11:03 PM
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Diana Offline OP
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Diana  Offline OP
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Thanks Patti, no flax. He gets gunky ears on flax. Found that out when we tried Nupro. I'm going to have to take a close look at his diet to see if anything has changed or perhaps find an ingredient in his supplements that could be a problem. All his supplements are from Springtime. I picked up the bottles and am going through the ingredients now.


Renji - 12ish M GSD x chow rescue

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310784
03/14/14 12:05 AM
03/14/14 12:05 AM
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Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
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Springtime's Omega 3-6-9 has flax in it. My sister's Aussie can't take those. Just a thought.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: PositiveDog] #310785
03/14/14 12:10 AM
03/14/14 12:10 AM
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Diana Offline OP
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Diana  Offline OP
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He takes Fresh Factors, Longevity, Bug Off, and Calmplex. None have flax or anything grainy or suspect. I might take him off Calmplex in light of the Prozac. I didn't know about the 3-6-9 having flax; now I know to stay away from that!


Renji - 12ish M GSD x chow rescue

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310786
03/14/14 12:19 AM
03/14/14 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
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Massachusetts
Grimmi really got in trouble with the Bug Off Garlic. I tried it, because I wished to avoid the chemicals in the topicals. He got very itchy on it, and he had a sort of pale powdery residue in his coat. I do know a few people who have their dogs on it, and they are fine. Grimmi really didn't feel or do well on it, though. The ingredients were mainly powdered garlic, so, I can understand that in nature, dogs are not supposed to/would not ingest garlic.

I dislike using the topicals. Advantix caused skin ulcers, but Grimmi tolerates Frontline basically okay. Gosh, it's like a balancing act with some of our sensitive dogs (and the odd stuff we're trying to put into/onto them)!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Braverhund] #310807
03/14/14 03:09 PM
03/14/14 03:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,203
Alabama
aubie Offline
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aubie  Offline
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Alabama
Hey Diana, I know I'm late to the party in posting, but I know you've been doing a lot of cleaning in your house, and I know you've thought of this and you may have already said it, but could there be anything you've used that could cause a reaction? Are you using the water from the water heater that you flushed with peroxide? Just trying to rethink this. Feel free to read this and say: Well of course I've thought of that stupid aubie woman! Duh! rofl


Tiffany mom to:
Anna, GSD 9/21/08
Panzer, GSD 9/12/15
Duncan Dog RIP 2/99-10/15
Danger Kitties: Mia & Winston RIP Alley Cat 10/12, Simon 6/13
Andon two-legger
Anna's Dog Blog: www.annathegsd.blogspot.com
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: aubie] #310809
03/14/14 03:54 PM
03/14/14 03:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 522
Diana Offline OP
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Diana  Offline OP
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Patti, now there's a thought. I did notice Renji also has this fine powder by his skin. I'll pull him off of the bug-off and am weaning him off the calmplex. He'll stay on the Fresh Factors and Longevity as he was on those before the former two.

Tiffany, you've been following on FB so you are catching a lot more. smile BTW, if anyone wants to follow Renji and me on FB, PM me! We are NOT using the well water for drinking. Renji is getting bottled water. Yes, I'm almost certain this was caused by chemicals, either what we used to clean or the leftovers from the smokers before us. After all, none of this began until we moved in, except for his questionable nerve issues. I'm still pulling out gross stuff every time I vacuum. In fact, I've been researching a better vacuum to buy.


Renji - 12ish M GSD x chow rescue

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310815
03/14/14 05:23 PM
03/14/14 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 522
Diana Offline OP
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Diana  Offline OP
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So I talk to the neurologist again. And then I talk to one of their internal medicine vets. The internal medicine vet says it sounds like a neurological problem. The neuro insists the blood work was fine and doesn't indicate any problem.

And yet, darn dog acts like he ran a marathon after three or four throws of the ball.


Last edited by Diana; 03/14/14 05:28 PM. Reason: typo

Renji - 12ish M GSD x chow rescue

"German shepherd dog breeding is working dog breeding or it is not German shepherd dog breeding." -v. Stephanitz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310819
03/14/14 06:29 PM
03/14/14 06:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 501
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MSD Offline
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Hi, maybe this could be of some help, I have two very sensitive dogs, I understand about wanting a clean home and the chemicals. I’ve resorted to using Dr. Bronner’s Magic Soaps, and it is AWESOME and CLEANS EVERYTHING from your windows, kitchen cabinets, shower, floors, walls, moldings, gets ink out of clothing and you can even bathe yourself and your pup with it. This is my go to cleaner and I can’t say enough good things about it. I can’t think of anything I wouldn’t use it for. A little goes such a long way. The ingredients are: Water, Organic Coconut Oil*, Potassium Hydroxide**, Organic Orange Oil, Organic Olive Oil*, Organic fairDeal Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Organic Lemon Oil, Organic Lime Oil, Citric Acid, Tocopherol. I also use a lot of baking soda and white vinegar and a 50% water/50%alcohol in a spray bottle for quick spills in the kitchen.

Originally Posted By: Diana
Yes, I'm almost certain this was caused by chemicals, either what we used to clean or the leftovers from the smokers before us. After all, none of this began until we moved in, except for his questionable nerve issues.

Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MSD] #310827
03/14/14 08:57 PM
03/14/14 08:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,203
Alabama
aubie Offline
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aubie  Offline
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Alabama
Have you rented a carpet cleaner and sucked all the nastiness out of the floors? You could use a green cleaner like Simple Green or even a mixture of vinegar/water or even the Bronners?

Although, seeing the black nastiness that comes from your floor may make you nauseous! sick


Tiffany mom to:
Anna, GSD 9/21/08
Panzer, GSD 9/12/15
Duncan Dog RIP 2/99-10/15
Danger Kitties: Mia & Winston RIP Alley Cat 10/12, Simon 6/13
Andon two-legger
Anna's Dog Blog: www.annathegsd.blogspot.com
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: aubie] #310836
03/14/14 10:15 PM
03/14/14 10:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,436
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
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Massachusetts
For Smokey's allergies/sensitivities, I had a local carpet cleaning company come (affordable! cheers) and do my main room with a portable system with a green, safe cleaner intended for sensitive/allergic crawling babies. It's called HOST. It's really a bunch of chewed-up tiny bits of sponges, saturated with a non-allergenic cleaning fluid. HOST gets scrubbed vigorously in between the carpet fibers, has to sit for a short while, then gets very strongly vacc'd out with their powerful system. The carpet is then basically nearly dry. And WOW is it clean! Smokey's allergies got better after that. paw peacesign


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Renji health issues - test Qs [Re: Diana] #310892
03/15/14 07:17 PM
03/15/14 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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I don't know what is going on with Renji, it sure is a mystery. My "balance" remark was more directed at the bloodwork than the diet though, since those values are not what I would be comfortable with. Definitely no gross abnormalities or things out of range, which is what the vets will look for. The specialists are usually best at looking at things only after they get bad enough to present themselves.

My first thought about the tight stomach, etc. was also that pancreatitis might be a possibility, but the bloodwork and the u/s don't support that, so it's much less likely. I am not convinced that an MRI or CT scan would show a lot, and those are very stressful on the dog.

It does appear that there are significant gut issues though, and probably a good chance that there is inflammation in the gut, from the tightness and also some of the symptoms. I would be addressing that as a first step.

Looking at the bloodwork, if this were my dog, particularly knowing that a raw diet is being fed, these are some of the thoughts that would be going through my head....

A low end protein state doesn't make sense to me in a raw fed dog, and may point towards intestinal absorption problems.

The low globulin, combined with the low neutrophils and low lymphocytes, to me, and I may be wrong, points to a chronic immune suppression. Lower globulin with the higher albumin might be from the high protein diet, but I am still concerned about those low end neut/lymph blood values. The appearance of basophils I wish I knew more about, since I'm dealing with that here. Most dogs don't seem to have those appearing and can be a marker for a certain type of inflammation.

The high bilirubin, since all the other liver values look good, might be from a breakdown of red blood cells, but the reticulocytes (new rbc's) aren't high, so maybe that's not likely. The rbc values though are at the high end, which may be dehydration, or other things. That's often a mystery to me, I've seen it with the dogs here.

Raw fed dogs are more likely to have high end BUN rather creatinine in general, so there might be some stress on the kidneys, something I would watch, but not worry about too much at this point.

I do not understand the high glucose, particularly in a fasted dog. A quick google says that potassium is often given to lower glucose, so maybe this is part of the low potassium issue. Low potassium can affect so many things; I would definitely address this.

The low end phosphorous in a prey model fed dog makes absolute no sense to me.

I would have a nutritionist go over the diet as a first step. Even if the diet is balanced, it could be that he has special needs, but between the phosphorous and postassium, those are enough indications to me that I would want to double check things. This is who I use, but there is also Monica Segal, and others out there: http://www.betterdogcare.com/

The urine looks pretty concentrated, so more fluid through the urinary tract would be helpful. 8.0 is pretty alkaline - Last time Jazz had a u/a, they listed the normal ph as 5.5-7.0, and the normal SG as 1.015-1.050. The anion gap is also low, representing a more alkaline state in the body, perhaps, but I don't know if these are connected; in general I think they need not be.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Diana] #310893
03/15/14 07:19 PM
03/15/14 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Diana
So I talk to the neurologist again. And then I talk to one of their internal medicine vets. The internal medicine vet says it sounds like a neurological problem. The neuro insists the blood work was fine and doesn't indicate any problem.

And yet, darn dog acts like he ran a marathon after three or four throws of the ball.



All that first paragraph means is that things aren't bad enough for them to know what's wrong frown

Trust your instincts that there is something wrong, though it might be like finding a needle in the haystack frown


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: MaxaLisa] #310894
03/15/14 07:45 PM
03/15/14 07:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,436
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Massachusetts
I know bloodwork seems normal, but could it be his heart? Even with a normal rhythm, I wonder, due to exercise component that you mention. Renji is a challenging boy, like my Grimmi, to bring to a vet's and ever try anything creative, but... any chance your internal medicine vet could, in an enclosed outdoor area, watch Renji chasing a ball? As anxious as Renji can be, would he run for his ball in a new enclosure if you were throwing it for him? Just a thought, it would be nice for the vet to witness what you witness.


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Renji health issues - Bloodwork! [Re: Braverhund] #310895
03/15/14 07:59 PM
03/15/14 07:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Northern CA
I think it's always possible Patti. Max had similar fatigue and breath problems, and his heart had undergone significant changes that were secondary to other issues. He was also low potassium in his diet, but not yet in his bloodowrk.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 03/15/14 07:59 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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