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Severe storm phobia #300339
11/23/13 08:45 AM
11/23/13 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Hi all,
I am sure I have mentioned before but I wondered if anyone here medicates their dog for storms. And if so, what do you give?

Molly is progressively getting worse and we are having thunder every second day at the moment. Today she had on her Thundershirt and 3mg of Xanax and it didn't make a dent in her panic. I thought when I take Coop to the vet this coming week I would ask him what else I can do, but wanted any feedback here first please.

Today she started trying to climb on the kitchen bench, climb the shelves in the pantry and linen cupboard. These are all new behaviours. Our usual routine is she either hides in my wardrobe or I hold her on my bed (which is what we did for 3 hours).

Any help please would be gratefully received.

I should add I have tried DAP, rescue remedy and another apawtherapy natural remedy but she is so bad frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300340
11/23/13 12:27 PM
11/23/13 12:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
PaddyD Offline
Old Hand
PaddyD  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
I am sorry for Molly's troubles and I hope you can help her.
This will probably not work but what I always did with my dogs for storms or
fireworks was to sit and observe them with them. I would sit and read a
book or some such thing and act as though they were a normal occurrence.
With some dogs this took only one or two 'sessions' and they were desensitized.
With some it took longer .... with some it didn't work at all.
My last dog went from hiding to having to go and watch the storm. If she
could see it she would calm down. Strange.
Best of luck to you and Molly. lurking goodluck


Pat
=====================
Abby - GSD - 7/4/2009
=====================


Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: PaddyD] #300341
11/23/13 12:47 PM
11/23/13 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
J
JakodaCD OA Offline
Veteran
JakodaCD OA  Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
I have used melatonin with 'ok' results..it doesn't prevent the fear but seems to 'chill' them out more.

I've had a couple of storm phobic dogs in the past, one would get in the bathtub, or a closet, the other actually tried climbing in the fireplace.

One helped by doing TTouch on him,,but doing that to a 125lb shaking bag of bones almost on top of you is rather iffy:)

The melatonin, kicks in fast, I give my 40# aussie 3mgs.


Diane
Ozzie von Kleinen Hain
Jakoda's Kholee
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Danger Danger von Kleinen Hain aka "Masi"
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx aka "Jynx"
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge aka "Jag"
"Angel" Sami
"Angel" Dodge
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: JakodaCD OA] #300342
11/23/13 01:46 PM
11/23/13 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah
shepnterrier  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
Bianca, when do you give the Xanax? Acc to Dr Karen Overall, the key is to give it 2 hrs before the storm is predicted to begin:
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=136493
(the article is from 2004)

Another veterinary behaviorist, Dr Nicholas Dodman, uses Buspirone as the drug of choice for t-storm phobia.

An overview on meds to treat t-storm phobia:
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html

Dr Dodman at Tufts University offers the 'VetFax' service:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/clinical.shtml
"VETFAX
This is a veterinarian–to–veterinarian consultation service for animal behavior problems. You and your referring veterinarian provide a written account of the behavior problem via behavior history forms and mail or fax this report to Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic. Dr. Dodman and his assistant will fax or mail a three to six page consultation response to the referring veterinarian within one week.

For more information, please call Ronni Tinker at 508-887-4640. Your charge for this service will be determined by your local veterinarian."

Dr Dodman's Vetfax is the route I would take myself. He has vast experience on using meds for behavioral issues and especially phobias.

Victoria Stillwell developed a non-medical treatment protocol together with a sound researcher and a pianist: http://positively.com/products/cnp/ I have no experience with it. Not knowing the work, just going by the title, it might focus on sound whereas some dogs might react to the electrostatic in the air as much as to the sound. But I don't know the product. The QuickLinks on that page might be worthwhile checking out, too.

There are a couple of audio DVDs out that have a soundtrack of t-storms, and offer instructions for desensitization. They are targeted to dogs with mild to moderate storm phobia (such as the Chipster), not the ones with severe t-storm phobia. I haven't tried these protocols yet, Chip and I can still manage with the VetriScience calming supplement, thundershirt, and playing before it gets real bad (he initiates the play as a way to distract himself). He hides underneath the bathroom sink, the non-conducting porcellain, so in his case he must be sensitive to the electrostatic, and sound desensitization is unlikely to resolve the fear entirely.

My dog Robin developed severe t-storm phobia in middle age before the meds and CDs were available. She suffered the same from the sounds of fireworks as during t-storms, and she didn't hide underneath the sink or behind the toilet bowl. So in her case sound desensitization would have been worth a try.

Fear causes as much suffering as physical pain. Not everybody takes it as seriously. Molly Moo is so lucky to have you for her human!


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: shepnterrier] #300345
11/23/13 02:51 PM
11/23/13 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Oh boy,,,, I was hoping the meds would help this. I have had storm phobic dogs in the past but not as bad as Molly.

I have used Ace in the past but that has kind of fallen on disfavor these days.

I plan on starting Havoc on melatonin this spring as he is developing some storm fears.

Can you maybe try some music? I think I might try some soft soothing music to see if calms her some. And if not, heck ROCK and ROLLL !!!!! It might drown out the thunder. I expect she is also responding to the change in barometric pressure, not much you can do about that.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Kayos] #300347
11/23/13 03:03 PM
11/23/13 03:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,744
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,744
Oh poor Miss Moo!

I thought Wolf was bad, he just crammed himself into a closet and wouldn't come out for several hours, I sometimes held him for a while to stop the shaking.

Molly's reaction is way past that-maybe you have better storms?

I just hope you both get relief, really.

MJ

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #300350
11/23/13 03:42 PM
11/23/13 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
bianca, I will list some of the things that at times helped DeeDee


Vitamin B complex. Google, there is a lot of info about the B complex and helping fearful dogs.

Melatonin.

Also, with the thundershirt put it on at times where there are no storms. This way the shirt isn't associated with only bad things.

T-Touch, DeeDee loved her hear, neck and head work.

I used sound flooding, fan and TV or Radio.

I tried the Xanax with DeeDee with no success. When we tried to up the dosage, all we did was upset the liver, so I had to do liver support to get that straightened out.

I hope you can come up with a combination that helps miss Moo


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #300352
11/23/13 04:38 PM
11/23/13 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
No direct experience here, indy was bothered by fireworks and thunder, but it wasn't terrible, and some melatonin took the edge off and allowed her to basically to ignore it.

The homeopathic remedy phosphorous might help.

The herb scullcap might help relax the nervous system.

If it's just storms and not fireworks, there is a storm jacket that shields from static I think, which operates under a different priniplce than the thundershirt, which basically is a waddling technique.
Eta: here it is, I've also seen it on amazon:
http://www.stormdefender.com/how_it_works.htm

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 11/23/13 04:40 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300362
11/23/13 06:53 PM
11/23/13 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,744
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,744
We tried an anti-static wrap for Wolf with no luck. Also DAP and the "Through a Dog's Ears" disc without effect.

Molly is a whole different creature and maybe she will respond. I certainly hope so.

Mary Jane

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #300363
11/23/13 07:37 PM
11/23/13 07:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,436
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,436
Massachusetts
Miss Molly Moo, my goodness! Bianca I am hoping that one of the solutions offered here might help your adorable girl. Val has had so much experience from when she had DeeDee, perhaps one of her ideas might help. I am wishing you wonderful success with helping Miss Moo! crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Braverhund] #300373
11/23/13 10:33 PM
11/23/13 10:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
hugging No helpful advice, just my sympathy. frown


Leah
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Good_Karma] #300397
11/24/13 02:58 AM
11/24/13 02:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,334
Vancouver Island, BC
Wolfie Offline
Pooh-Bah
Wolfie  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,334
Vancouver Island, BC
I too don't have any helpful advice but wanted to give Miss Molly Moo some comfort and support.hugging Poor girl.


Anita & 10.5 yr old Yukon

R.I.P Amber & Cisco:
"Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's a memory
And there you'll always be."
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wolfie] #300403
11/24/13 06:13 AM
11/24/13 06:13 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you all so very, very much. Sarah thank you for such a detailed reply and Val I hope talking about DeeDee hasn't upset you too much hugging

Today in the morning it started raining (not heavy) and Molly started flipping out again frown

I am going to email my vet soon and ask where to go from here. I wonder (after reading the links Sarah provided) if she needs to go back on Prozac and then something else (not Xanax) when the thunder hits?

I will update when I hear back. Thanks again so very much hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Braverhund] #300435
11/24/13 05:35 PM
11/24/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,754
M
middleofnowhere Offline
Carpal Tunnel
middleofnowhere  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,754
My thunder phobic dog got relief from that and fire crackers when her hearing went. Before that I made the mistake of trying to sooth her - made her anxiety much worse. I discovered it was better to ignore it. I think that maybe Bill Campbell's jolly routine was suggested for things like this. As in here comes the big scarey noise (in this case thunderstorm) let's play and have a party! If I remember correctly, this is started with an artificial controlled thunder storm (or other bothersome noise) - and you gradually build up until the full-blown event is no longer a concern for the animal.

So - no I never medicated for it. Thundershirts were unheard of back then and I hadn't read Bill Campbell's website.

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: middleofnowhere] #300438
11/24/13 05:46 PM
11/24/13 05:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah
shepnterrier  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
Middle, Chippy tries distracting himself by bringing me a toy to play fetch when a storm begins. And we play. When the storm gets really bad, however, fear overcomes the brave little terrier, but not to the point of hyperventilating, fortunately. I curl around him, that helps him. Otherwise he would sit trembling underneath the sink. In a cat box, b/c one happens to be underneath the sink.

In general, I will comfort a friend with fear, human or animal. Suzanne Clothier commented on the topic. As always, she doesn't mince her words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ8ugSSTNmM
http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

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