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Severe storm phobia #300339
11/23/13 08:45 AM
11/23/13 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Hi all,
I am sure I have mentioned before but I wondered if anyone here medicates their dog for storms. And if so, what do you give?

Molly is progressively getting worse and we are having thunder every second day at the moment. Today she had on her Thundershirt and 3mg of Xanax and it didn't make a dent in her panic. I thought when I take Coop to the vet this coming week I would ask him what else I can do, but wanted any feedback here first please.

Today she started trying to climb on the kitchen bench, climb the shelves in the pantry and linen cupboard. These are all new behaviours. Our usual routine is she either hides in my wardrobe or I hold her on my bed (which is what we did for 3 hours).

Any help please would be gratefully received.

I should add I have tried DAP, rescue remedy and another apawtherapy natural remedy but she is so bad frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300340
11/23/13 12:27 PM
11/23/13 12:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
PaddyD Offline
Old Hand
PaddyD  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
I am sorry for Molly's troubles and I hope you can help her.
This will probably not work but what I always did with my dogs for storms or
fireworks was to sit and observe them with them. I would sit and read a
book or some such thing and act as though they were a normal occurrence.
With some dogs this took only one or two 'sessions' and they were desensitized.
With some it took longer .... with some it didn't work at all.
My last dog went from hiding to having to go and watch the storm. If she
could see it she would calm down. Strange.
Best of luck to you and Molly. lurking goodluck


Pat
=====================
Abby - GSD - 7/4/2009
=====================


Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: PaddyD] #300341
11/23/13 12:47 PM
11/23/13 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
J
JakodaCD OA Offline
Veteran
JakodaCD OA  Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
I have used melatonin with 'ok' results..it doesn't prevent the fear but seems to 'chill' them out more.

I've had a couple of storm phobic dogs in the past, one would get in the bathtub, or a closet, the other actually tried climbing in the fireplace.

One helped by doing TTouch on him,,but doing that to a 125lb shaking bag of bones almost on top of you is rather iffy:)

The melatonin, kicks in fast, I give my 40# aussie 3mgs.


Diane
Ozzie von Kleinen Hain
Jakoda's Kholee
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Danger Danger von Kleinen Hain aka "Masi"
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx aka "Jynx"
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge aka "Jag"
"Angel" Sami
"Angel" Dodge
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: JakodaCD OA] #300342
11/23/13 01:46 PM
11/23/13 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
shepnterrier Offline
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MA
Bianca, when do you give the Xanax? Acc to Dr Karen Overall, the key is to give it 2 hrs before the storm is predicted to begin:
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=136493
(the article is from 2004)

Another veterinary behaviorist, Dr Nicholas Dodman, uses Buspirone as the drug of choice for t-storm phobia.

An overview on meds to treat t-storm phobia:
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html

Dr Dodman at Tufts University offers the 'VetFax' service:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/clinical.shtml
"VETFAX
This is a veterinarian–to–veterinarian consultation service for animal behavior problems. You and your referring veterinarian provide a written account of the behavior problem via behavior history forms and mail or fax this report to Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic. Dr. Dodman and his assistant will fax or mail a three to six page consultation response to the referring veterinarian within one week.

For more information, please call Ronni Tinker at 508-887-4640. Your charge for this service will be determined by your local veterinarian."

Dr Dodman's Vetfax is the route I would take myself. He has vast experience on using meds for behavioral issues and especially phobias.

Victoria Stillwell developed a non-medical treatment protocol together with a sound researcher and a pianist: http://positively.com/products/cnp/ I have no experience with it. Not knowing the work, just going by the title, it might focus on sound whereas some dogs might react to the electrostatic in the air as much as to the sound. But I don't know the product. The QuickLinks on that page might be worthwhile checking out, too.

There are a couple of audio DVDs out that have a soundtrack of t-storms, and offer instructions for desensitization. They are targeted to dogs with mild to moderate storm phobia (such as the Chipster), not the ones with severe t-storm phobia. I haven't tried these protocols yet, Chip and I can still manage with the VetriScience calming supplement, thundershirt, and playing before it gets real bad (he initiates the play as a way to distract himself). He hides underneath the bathroom sink, the non-conducting porcellain, so in his case he must be sensitive to the electrostatic, and sound desensitization is unlikely to resolve the fear entirely.

My dog Robin developed severe t-storm phobia in middle age before the meds and CDs were available. She suffered the same from the sounds of fireworks as during t-storms, and she didn't hide underneath the sink or behind the toilet bowl. So in her case sound desensitization would have been worth a try.

Fear causes as much suffering as physical pain. Not everybody takes it as seriously. Molly Moo is so lucky to have you for her human!


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: shepnterrier] #300345
11/23/13 02:51 PM
11/23/13 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Oh boy,,,, I was hoping the meds would help this. I have had storm phobic dogs in the past but not as bad as Molly.

I have used Ace in the past but that has kind of fallen on disfavor these days.

I plan on starting Havoc on melatonin this spring as he is developing some storm fears.

Can you maybe try some music? I think I might try some soft soothing music to see if calms her some. And if not, heck ROCK and ROLLL !!!!! It might drown out the thunder. I expect she is also responding to the change in barometric pressure, not much you can do about that.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Kayos] #300347
11/23/13 03:03 PM
11/23/13 03:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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Oh poor Miss Moo!

I thought Wolf was bad, he just crammed himself into a closet and wouldn't come out for several hours, I sometimes held him for a while to stop the shaking.

Molly's reaction is way past that-maybe you have better storms?

I just hope you both get relief, really.

MJ

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #300350
11/23/13 03:42 PM
11/23/13 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,847
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
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Posts: 8,847
Wisconsin
bianca, I will list some of the things that at times helped DeeDee


Vitamin B complex. Google, there is a lot of info about the B complex and helping fearful dogs.

Melatonin.

Also, with the thundershirt put it on at times where there are no storms. This way the shirt isn't associated with only bad things.

T-Touch, DeeDee loved her hear, neck and head work.

I used sound flooding, fan and TV or Radio.

I tried the Xanax with DeeDee with no success. When we tried to up the dosage, all we did was upset the liver, so I had to do liver support to get that straightened out.

I hope you can come up with a combination that helps miss Moo


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #300352
11/23/13 04:38 PM
11/23/13 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
No direct experience here, indy was bothered by fireworks and thunder, but it wasn't terrible, and some melatonin took the edge off and allowed her to basically to ignore it.

The homeopathic remedy phosphorous might help.

The herb scullcap might help relax the nervous system.

If it's just storms and not fireworks, there is a storm jacket that shields from static I think, which operates under a different priniplce than the thundershirt, which basically is a waddling technique.
Eta: here it is, I've also seen it on amazon:
http://www.stormdefender.com/how_it_works.htm

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 11/23/13 04:40 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300362
11/23/13 06:53 PM
11/23/13 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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We tried an anti-static wrap for Wolf with no luck. Also DAP and the "Through a Dog's Ears" disc without effect.

Molly is a whole different creature and maybe she will respond. I certainly hope so.

Mary Jane

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #300363
11/23/13 07:37 PM
11/23/13 07:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,437
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Massachusetts
Miss Molly Moo, my goodness! Bianca I am hoping that one of the solutions offered here might help your adorable girl. Val has had so much experience from when she had DeeDee, perhaps one of her ideas might help. I am wishing you wonderful success with helping Miss Moo! crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Braverhund] #300373
11/23/13 10:33 PM
11/23/13 10:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
hugging No helpful advice, just my sympathy. frown


Leah
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Good_Karma] #300397
11/24/13 02:58 AM
11/24/13 02:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,334
Vancouver Island, BC
Wolfie Offline
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Wolfie  Offline
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Posts: 2,334
Vancouver Island, BC
I too don't have any helpful advice but wanted to give Miss Molly Moo some comfort and support.hugging Poor girl.


Anita & 10.5 yr old Yukon

R.I.P Amber & Cisco:
"Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's a memory
And there you'll always be."
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wolfie] #300403
11/24/13 06:13 AM
11/24/13 06:13 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Thank you all so very, very much. Sarah thank you for such a detailed reply and Val I hope talking about DeeDee hasn't upset you too much hugging

Today in the morning it started raining (not heavy) and Molly started flipping out again frown

I am going to email my vet soon and ask where to go from here. I wonder (after reading the links Sarah provided) if she needs to go back on Prozac and then something else (not Xanax) when the thunder hits?

I will update when I hear back. Thanks again so very much hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Braverhund] #300435
11/24/13 05:35 PM
11/24/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,759
M
middleofnowhere Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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My thunder phobic dog got relief from that and fire crackers when her hearing went. Before that I made the mistake of trying to sooth her - made her anxiety much worse. I discovered it was better to ignore it. I think that maybe Bill Campbell's jolly routine was suggested for things like this. As in here comes the big scarey noise (in this case thunderstorm) let's play and have a party! If I remember correctly, this is started with an artificial controlled thunder storm (or other bothersome noise) - and you gradually build up until the full-blown event is no longer a concern for the animal.

So - no I never medicated for it. Thundershirts were unheard of back then and I hadn't read Bill Campbell's website.

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: middleofnowhere] #300438
11/24/13 05:46 PM
11/24/13 05:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
shepnterrier Offline
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MA
Middle, Chippy tries distracting himself by bringing me a toy to play fetch when a storm begins. And we play. When the storm gets really bad, however, fear overcomes the brave little terrier, but not to the point of hyperventilating, fortunately. I curl around him, that helps him. Otherwise he would sit trembling underneath the sink. In a cat box, b/c one happens to be underneath the sink.

In general, I will comfort a friend with fear, human or animal. Suzanne Clothier commented on the topic. As always, she doesn't mince her words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ8ugSSTNmM
http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: shepnterrier] #300456
11/24/13 08:20 PM
11/24/13 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA

When I first read these I was so relieved, because this is what I have always believed and acted upon.

It really is not whether to comfort them or not, but how you do it. Indy had very mild fears. I did not know how to properly address max's fears, they were deep and strange, luckily not to noises though.

Now having a dog with true fear, it's a whole new ballgame. During fireworks I have pre-emptively given her 2-3mg of melatonin (she is 20 lbs) and he has done well. There is a thread around here somewhere that talks about melatonin dosing - some of the recommendations are very high. I have used the same dose in all of my dogs, which is a bit funny, but the smallest is the worst in terms of fear.

Indy became more fearlful of fireworks as she started losing her hearing I think. Then he suddenly got better, but I then realized that he had lost a lot of hearing. When she started losing her hearing, she also started barking when the alrm clock went off (I really miss that when I'm trying wake up still!). So it's possible that changes in their hearing make them more wary in different ways. That is only from a sample of 1!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300468
11/24/13 11:16 PM
11/24/13 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
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Shepherds  Offline
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Posts: 513
Australia
Sorry Bianca that Miss Moo is upping the anti with storms and given the weather we have had of late, doesn't look like this week is going to be much better frown

From a holistic perspective I can suggest Barbara Fugere in Sydney (holistic vet who does phone consults)...she may have some suggestions....

And it's hard...do you think it's the noise or change in atmosphere or both? How are you and how do you react when storms start approaching? And I agree it's easier and far more effective if you can get any meds in well before the thunder arrives.

Levi is now pretty much deaf...didn't use to give a toss about storms, (even when Kobe was freaking out about them...it was like what's your problem) but as hearing has altered, he now gets quite concerned about them.

I hope you find a solution soon....and I hope the weather improves!!!!

Big hugs to Miss Moo hugging


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300499
11/25/13 07:56 AM
11/25/13 07:56 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you all so much for the ideas/links and feedback. I haven't heard back from the vet yet.

I have tried Melatonin, I first bought the wrong kind and then ordered some from over there and it made no difference either. I don't fret over her, I talk normally but do end up kind of squeezing her when she is beside herself. I play music really loudly but nothing seems to help frown She also will not eat even really yummy treats like salami for an example.

Touch wood, the weather is better now and for the next few days. She didn't used to be like this, I think she was between 1 1/2 - 2 years when she started this (It was before I got Cooper).

Last edited by bianca; 11/25/13 08:00 AM.

Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300501
11/25/13 11:42 AM
11/25/13 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
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Qyn  Offline
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Victoria, Australia
I had a client's dog when I was a groomer that was thunder phobic and it was only certain kinds of music that worked with her and this one worked and it wasn't even played loud yet she would stay calm while it was on. When thunder was forecast and I was available I would let her stay with this playing and it gave the owners peace of mind as she had escaped many times and hurt herself (she lost an eye from running into something in a panic - they do not even know how it happened).

I hope you find something that will work for Molly this has been going on for a very long time.

Last edited by Qyn; 11/25/13 11:42 AM.

Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Qyn] #300564
11/26/13 08:15 AM
11/26/13 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Queensland. Australia
Oh thank you Alison hugging I will download that, heck I will try anything. On the weekend I even tried Country music! (no offence to anyone who likes that). I used to play 'Through a Dogs Ear' but again, no change.

This afternoon the man across the road fired his Harley up (a regular occurance) and she was shaking like a leaf. I was outside so I asked Mum and Dad to keep an eye on her but not fuss. She came right after about an hour.

I haven't heard back from the vet so I called and he is away until Friday. I don't wish to explain her history to the locum vet so will wait until Friday to try and sort this out once and for all.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300674
11/27/13 09:52 AM
11/27/13 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Queensland. Australia
My vet emailed me today suggesting that I try this veterinary behaviourist. I spoke to him and have a phone consult tomorrow at 7pm. I've also just emailed him a long history! So hoping he can help.

http://www.animalbehaviour.com/


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300743
11/28/13 05:17 AM
11/28/13 05:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
The behaviourist should know what drugs can best help her behaviour. I sure hope that this is the key to making her more comfortable. Please let us know how it goes!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300748
11/28/13 06:03 AM
11/28/13 06:03 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Queensland. Australia
Thanks Lisa, I am really hoping he can help. He did say on the phone that there is not one easy fix, a combined approach is needed. A couple more hours to go!


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300753
11/28/13 08:43 AM
11/28/13 08:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
Addict
Shepherds  Offline
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Posts: 513
Australia
I hope they can help Bianca!


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300754
11/28/13 12:27 PM
11/28/13 12:27 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thanks Marie smile

Well I think I have a new best friend teehee! He is really nice and we had an hour and a half phone consultation. He will send me a report within a couple of weeks but will send my vet an email tomorrow.
Molly is to go back on Prozac 30mg (was on 20mg before). He said Xanax usually is the drug of choice for storms up to a maximum of 4mg. Because 3mg doesn't make a dent in her, we are going to try a beta blocker (not sure which), start off on a low dose. If that doesn't help then try Clomidine (sp).

He thinks it could be partly due to early impoverished begginings (she was the runt and it was touch and go, hand reared etc) and that at maturity between 12-18 months was the magic time that it all started to go pear shaped. The maturity of genetic propensities. That was when her reactivity went through the roof and barrier frustration, on lead aggression etc. He said it is like a learning phenonem where her drive is anxiety and the barrier is frustration.

He said it's possible it could be nuerological and he consults with a neuro but to pay $2700 for an MRI of her brain, he thinks it is not likely to prove anything.

We are going to try multiple interventions, a DAP diffuser (I have tried the DAP spray. He said thundershirts can be hit and miss and hers makes no difference so to try an old cut up pair of pantyhose - she is going to look like a fat sausage laugh Instead of trying to make her den in her crate (which is huge) use a cardboard box which is sealed up with just enough room for her to get in (small opening cut into it for a door) and put an unwashed item of my clothing in there. Even use the DAP spray in there and while there are no storms teach her to go in their = food treats. And that seems to make so much sense because on the weekend she was digging to try and get in my box of pepsi (never going to fit)

Start to feed her using the Kongs as licking (aural) is a calming sensation and keeps her busy and eventually feed all her food this way. Also apparently around 90% of the serotonin is in the guts and the remainder in the brain.

When there is a storm use deep tissue massage but only for like 10 seconds at a time, particularly around the ear canals, shoulders and thighs.

I really like him, he is a vet first and foremost and has worked with the NZ police dogs (I fostered one once) so he gets brownie points for that!

I am going to get a thunderstorm CD and try and desensitise her.

I told him I have ordered some tracking books to keep her thinking and he thought that was great (although it looks as if the second posting from Dogwise has gone awol too).

He is going to call me on Monday to see if I have thought of any other questions etc and we will give it around 2 months to see how this new programme works. He said he is always a phone call away.

I've probably missed a lot but I was trying to take notes while listening etc and please excuse my spelling mistakes!

I so hope my Molly Moo can feel better crossedfingers But I did tell him I will do whatever it takes.

Even though this is incomplete I hope maybe some of it may help others ~ Lisa thinking of Jazz here - the pantyhose idea is worth a shot and he said you can even use multiple layers.

And if you have made it this far, thank you for reading hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300756
11/28/13 01:42 PM
11/28/13 01:42 PM
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Victoria, Australia
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Sounds like a very productive consult and that there are lots of options to try. I found this part where it is is possibly due to "early impoverished beginnings (she was the runt and it was touch and go, hand reared etc) and that at maturity between 12-18 months was the magic time" very interesting and I did not know this about Molly.


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Qyn] #300782
11/28/13 08:20 PM
11/28/13 08:20 PM
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Australia
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Wow...that's a very comprehensive discussion you got to have with him and he gets brownie points from me on taking the time to go through everything so thoroughly. I hope this new program brings results and good to know he is only a phone call away and offers up full support.

It sounds very positive and you have a plan....and we all like good plans as then you feel you are doing something useful and constructive.


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300785
11/28/13 10:04 PM
11/28/13 10:04 PM
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Northern CA
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Very hopeful that this guy will be able to help - sounds very promising! Will be interesting to see the full report. I can hear the relief in your voice smile


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300826
11/29/13 06:59 AM
11/29/13 06:59 AM
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Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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Thank you ladies hugging I am feeling so much better having a plan now!

Yes Alison, she was a sickly pup and in fact was the only 1 of the 9 in the litter to be named by the breeder. (she was Tessa).

I have ordered the DAP plug in and will pick up the prescriptions from my vet tomorrow. As you will see from the the pics, I need to get a bigger box (well I'm going to get 2 as I know Coop will want his own!) Getting her 'kit' together!






Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300829
11/29/13 07:08 AM
11/29/13 07:08 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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OOh I also have learnt recently that one of her littermates and Dam suffer from mild storm phobia.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300834
11/29/13 10:08 AM
11/29/13 10:08 AM
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Australia
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Hello to Miss Moo and the black pony. Looks like you are getting well and truly organized. It's not uncommon for these things to be in the "family". Both Kobe and his litter sister were terrified of thunder. Interestingly they weren't as puppies/youngsters and although they both lived apart and didn't have contact, they both started developing it at around the same time (was about age 5).

Really hope this is the solution for you.


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300835
11/29/13 10:56 AM
11/29/13 10:56 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Thank you Marie hugging Yes the vet last night said it is more common for 'middle aged' dogs to develop phobias although he said that would usually be around age 7.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300873
11/29/13 06:46 PM
11/29/13 06:46 PM
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Northern CA
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That is a pretty small box laugh

I'm sure that there is a genetic component to this stuff. Interesting about the others...

The DAP plug in (and collar) seemed to really hype Jazz up, o it definitely did *something*


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300956
11/30/13 08:23 AM
11/30/13 08:23 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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I found a big box today and cut it down, taped it up and it's not exactly what I think he had in mind! laugh

Oh I didn't know that about Jazz frown It's strange isn't it how things like that work so differently or not at all in others. Molly never showed any response to the spray before. Have got her with her head in the box so far, will keep working on it.

Got her prescriptions today so she has had her first dose of Prozac.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300958
11/30/13 09:31 AM
11/30/13 09:31 AM
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Northern CA
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We will need a picture of her new box smile

I might try her collar again with Jazz at some point, to tet it out. She's funny little squirt. I hope that you will see some positive stuff with the diffuser. I'm not exactly sure I did, but not sure I would have noticed. The collar though my vet seemed to have good experiences with it.

Hope the meds start kicking in crossedfingers !


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #301061
12/01/13 06:26 PM
12/01/13 06:26 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Probably too soon to see any response, but I was thinking of her!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #301140
12/02/13 09:38 AM
12/02/13 09:38 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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"a funny little squirt" wub wub I had another chat with the behaviourist today to clear up a few questions I had so that was good.

Will take a pic of the box tomorrow....it's a real hash job! I need to find a better box! Waiting for the delivery of the diffuser which I will just leave on in my room (they sleep in there) as the rest of the house is open plan and I would need too many of them. Thank you for thinking of my Moo hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301154
12/02/13 02:01 PM
12/02/13 02:01 PM
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Wisconsin
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I found with the spray that if I applied it to a bandana that I would have to let it air out because the mixture contains alcohol and most dogs don't seem to like that. Once it has evaporated it is good.

I hope that her box helps her out.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #301259
12/03/13 08:27 AM
12/03/13 08:27 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Thank you Val hugging I did use to spray her collar and leave it for about 15 minutes before I put it on her.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301262
12/03/13 09:24 AM
12/03/13 09:24 AM
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Australia
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I too would like to see a picture of Miss Moos new haven....or are you concerned it might not meet building regulations laugh.

Any change in anything since starting the Prozac?


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #301314
12/03/13 06:38 PM
12/03/13 06:38 PM
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McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

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This thread is getting very interesting and there are some really good ideas here. I think I like your behaviorist too.

I never realized most phobias develop in middle age. Havoc has just this year begun to develop thunder storm issues. He has never been noise sensitive and gun shots still do not bother him.

I think I like the box idea and the DAP spray on the collar.

I wonder if we could make this sticky? Wonder if we need Lisa or Val
s permission? I should know the answer to that - silly me!


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Kayos] #301334
12/03/13 10:10 PM
12/03/13 10:10 PM
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Wisconsin
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When I knew we were having stormy weather coming I would spray Deedee's blanket in her crate so it had a chance to air out before she needed it. I also had the DAP plug in next to the crate.

Kathy you might want to try the TranquilTabs for Havie. EntirelyPets Affiliate Link

Other calming products http://www.germanshepherdhome.net/shop/calming-aids/


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #301353
12/04/13 12:13 AM
12/04/13 12:13 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Well we have heavy rain today and thunderstorms forecast frown The specialist said if there is any chance of a storm to give the Propranolol. It is better to give if the storm doesn't eventuate than to give it too late.

So I just gave her one (20 mg) starting dose. It is meant to be 1mg per KG so she is slightly underdosed.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=701989

Here are pics, dodgy box building, then I needed to buy a lawn mower for the orchard (I'm too dodgy with the ride-on laugh) so a perfect box for her. Then I have tried the pantyhose but I don't think I have it just right yet.

In her box is a thin bed, an unwashed T-shirt of mine and I have sprayed DAP in there (still waiting for the diffuser to arrive). So if we have a storm I hope she will go in there.





Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301355
12/04/13 12:15 AM
12/04/13 12:15 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Oh and he said the idea of the pantyhose is like we use compression stockings for DVT etc, tight but not too constrictive.

Will report back later if there is a storm or to let you know if there is any reaction to the Proprononl.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301397
12/04/13 06:48 AM
12/04/13 06:48 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Well so far no thunder but it is still forecast. We have had really heavy rain and Miss Moo has been so nice and relaxed all day. I wouldn't say I have really noticed a difference after giving her the beta blocker so I think that is good. (her heart rate didn't slow so much she fainted which he said could happen). So all in all,(touch wood) a good day for her.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301402
12/04/13 10:26 AM
12/04/13 10:26 AM
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Last edited by MaxaLisa; 12/04/13 10:27 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #301406
12/04/13 01:20 PM
12/04/13 01:20 PM
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
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Originally Posted By: bianca
... So all in all,(touch wood) a good day for her.


thumbup Good that Molly is having a good day.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Woodreb] #301413
12/04/13 02:04 PM
12/04/13 02:04 PM
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Maybe being relaxed in a heavy rain is the beginning of relaxing with a little rumbling and then more thunder, etc-you know staying under threshold. Maybe?

Whatever it is, we love a relaxed Moo.

MJ

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #301483
12/04/13 09:55 PM
12/04/13 09:55 PM
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McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

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Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
When I knew we were having stormy weather coming I would spray Deedee's blanket in her crate so it had a chance to air out before she needed it. I also had the DAP plug in next to the crate.

Kathy you might want to try the TranquilTabs for Havie. EntirelyPets Affiliate Link

Other calming products http://www.germanshepherdhome.net/shop/calming-aids/


Thanks Val! I have really started using Entirely Pets more than Only Natural Pets. Better prices. First time I used them I forgot the affiliate link. frown


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Kayos] #301535
12/05/13 07:21 AM
12/05/13 07:21 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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Well I checked the radar all day today and darn it if I missed a huge storm frown Molly wouldn't eat her breakfast this morning (not like her at all) so I thought sod it and dropped the Prozac to 20mg. Then this thunder came out of the blue, raced inside threw a Propronol into her, put her thundershirt on and sprayed DAP everywhere. Thankfully she is ok now and actually ate her dinner (plus a bit extra). She was not interested in going in her box but did try to climb on the kitchen bench frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #302270
12/11/13 02:08 PM
12/11/13 02:08 PM
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This thread has been wonderful. Thanks for starting it! My mixed dog has recently started to become more anxious during storms. I think I am going to try the box idea, typically I will get out our big comforter blanket and he will ball himself up in the middle of it and hide out in there. On the down side, he's got in there and then has been sat on because we can't see him. O.O

I've also used Chamomile and Lavender, but those also do not seem to be working as well. I really want to stay away from giving him medications if possible, but as he's got older, he seems to get more upset with storms.


“Dogs are better than human beings because they know but do not tell.” Emily Dickinson
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Sidhe] #302403
12/12/13 07:34 AM
12/12/13 07:34 AM
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bianca Offline OP
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I'm sorry your boy has this awful affliction too frown It's really terrible to see them so stressed. You may want to give the DAP diffuser a try, I think it's made a difference here.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #302581
12/13/13 08:22 AM
12/13/13 08:22 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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Well Miss Moo has really not been herself since re-starting Prozac frown So I've made the decision to wean her off it. She was meant to be on 30mg but I've been giving 20mg. Tonight I gave her 10m and will continue for a week or so and then I'll go to 5mg. Poor girl has not been wanting to eat and has been acting odd (she is odd but this is different).

Last edited by bianca; 12/13/13 08:23 AM.

Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #302667
12/14/13 04:24 AM
12/14/13 04:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
I'm really sorry about the prozac frown

When I saw jazz's specialist, we talk super briefly about anxiety meds as an option down the road. Basically it was IF they work and IF she tolerates them. So I think that there are a lot of IF's with these meds.

Have you ever tried St. John's Wort for her?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #302685
12/14/13 07:21 AM
12/14/13 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you Lisa hugging Basically I just don't think her anxiety in general is bad enough to medicate her daily for. No I haven't. I think I will just see how she goes once weaned off and hopefully with the DAP etc she will be ok and back to my Mooey.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #302690
12/14/13 07:35 AM
12/14/13 07:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
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Shepherds  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
hugging for you and Miss Moo. And hugging for Coop too smile


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #302691
12/14/13 11:39 AM
12/14/13 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,940
Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Online Coffee
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,940
Ohio
I'm beginning to hear good things about Zylkene, a natural product you can get from some vets.

It may worth talking to your vet about.

Here is a link:

http://www.zylkenepet.co.uk/aboutzylkene/index.html

And I still like Cholodine, which I get from Entirely Pets. Skye has done well on it.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #302697
12/14/13 02:20 PM
12/14/13 02:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,437
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
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Massachusetts
Bianca, I am wishing calm and serenity for Moo, Cooper, and for you, too. peacesign hugging


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Braverhund] #302711
12/14/13 04:33 PM
12/14/13 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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I wish things were easier for Miss Moo-she seems so sweet and gentle (I am skipping the 4-legged mouth part). I can't remember how she did with massage, but it helps some of us.

Best wishes to all of you,

MJ

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #302787
12/15/13 06:41 AM
12/15/13 06:41 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Thank you my friends hugging Bonnie that is interesting, I have saved the link for future reference! She is already a bit more Mooish, more interested in eating again thank goodness. Mary Jane she is a sweet girl (although always the fun police!) and the mouthy part was when she drove me to tears as a puppy laugh


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303451
12/18/13 12:27 AM
12/18/13 12:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Glad she is more mooish (love that term ... and her wub ). Sorry this is such a problem!


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Qyn] #303492
12/18/13 08:35 AM
12/18/13 08:35 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Queensland. Australia
Thanks Alison hugging Well she's been off it for 2 nights now and is already back to MOO!!!!!!! And she's back to being the hungry hippo so I am very happy smile A storm is predicted for Friday so will see how she goes with just the Beta Blocker, DAP etc.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303495
12/18/13 10:02 AM
12/18/13 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
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Shepherds  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
That's good news...fingers and everything else crossed for Friday. hugging


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #303550
12/19/13 03:35 AM
12/19/13 03:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
crossedfingers for friday! I'm glad she is back to herself.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #303555
12/19/13 06:53 AM
12/19/13 06:53 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Queensland. Australia
Thank you Marie and Lisa hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303586
12/19/13 04:39 PM
12/19/13 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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I guess it's already Friday in Queensland, so before I forget to post: I do hope that Moo is full of Mooishness and not fear during the storm.

Mary Jane

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Mary Jane] #303637
12/20/13 09:03 AM
12/20/13 09:03 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you Mary Jane hugging Well we had thunder last night at bedtime (not predicted and not shown on the rain radar frown ) but she made it through okish. We were due for storms today so I have given her the beta blocker earlier and just had a few thunder cracks, so far she is not to bad but certainly not Mooishness at the moment frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303638
12/20/13 10:35 AM
12/20/13 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
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Shepherds  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
How did Moo go Bianca?? Must also be time you gave her a big smooch from me (and the black pony of course) smile


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #303687
12/21/13 07:12 AM
12/21/13 07:12 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you Marie, smooches delivered!!!! hugging Thankfully no thunder although I just checked the weather and some is expected tomorrow frown I've always been home but will be at work so she will just have Ma and Pa here frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303710
12/21/13 04:23 PM
12/21/13 04:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Have you ever tried L-theanine? I was on a social anxiety forum (doing research for jazz), and some said that they had very good luck with this, as much as with their beta blocker.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #303773
12/22/13 08:28 AM
12/22/13 08:28 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
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Queensland. Australia
Lisa no I haven't. It seems like I have bought so many different things for both pups with no success frown I know you will be flat out but if you have a chance would you mind please suggesting a brand and dosage please?


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303786
12/22/13 05:03 PM
12/22/13 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
Have you ever taken her for a ride in the car during a storm? For Kramer that was magic - when there was a storm or fireworks, we would ride around, get some food maybe, play some Crosby Stills and Nash, and no problem at all. For a dog like Bella, who hates riding, that would be a punishment, but for Kramer, it was so relaxing. By the time we got home, he could think to do obedience and we would do that until the storm ended, or he decided I could take my treats and shove them, he was done being my monkey boy. wink

It only worked if I was home of course, because he did not have his own car.

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #303788
12/22/13 05:06 PM
12/22/13 05:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,759
M
middleofnowhere Offline
Carpal Tunnel
middleofnowhere  Offline
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M
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,759
I love the idea of the dog having his own car to drive around in storms! GSD Storm Chaser!

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: middleofnowhere] #303790
12/22/13 05:15 PM
12/22/13 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
Yes! Great new show on Animal Planet.

It's even going on "close" to Miss Moo with the New Zealand driving dogs:
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals...w-zealand-video

It would be nice if a car ride was therapeutic for her.

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #303802
12/22/13 07:52 PM
12/22/13 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
shepnterrier Offline
Pooh-Bah
shepnterrier  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,032
MA
The car is a Faraday cage!!! Therefore, no electrostatic in here!!!

That's why you cannot be struck by lightening in a car, as long as you keep all windows closed.

If it's that effect that calmed Kramer, then it won't matter whether the car is moving or standing still.

Woohoo, I'll try that with Chip who reacts to the electrostatic. Still leaves the thunder and lightning, and any conditioned association between thunder/lightning and expecting electrostatic. But, hey, not experiencing the electrostatic will make a difference.

PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Last edited by shepnterrier; 12/22/13 07:56 PM. Reason: added PS

Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #303824
12/23/13 12:59 AM
12/23/13 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: bianca
Lisa no I haven't. It seems like I have bought so many different things for both pups with no success frown I know you will be flat out but if you have a chance would you mind please suggesting a brand and dosage please?

I soooo hear you bianca, I'm having that problem with Jazz, which makes me reluctant to recommend anything - I hate throwing money down the drain frown

If you still want to try it, let me know, and I'll look into it a bit more, for the both of us.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #303854
12/23/13 07:18 AM
12/23/13 07:18 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you all! Funny, if I leave the car door open, Moo jumps in the drivers seat while Coop makes do with the passenger seat rofl

Thank you Jean, I have tried that and it made no difference frown But good thinking and I appreciate it hugging

Lisa, yes please. I am more than willing to try pretty much anything as it seems the beta blocker causes her constipation frown well I can't find another culprit so am blaming that. If you don't mind I would appreciate it greatly hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: shepnterrier] #322245
08/27/14 10:14 PM
08/27/14 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
PaddyD Offline
Old Hand
PaddyD  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 844
Massachusetts
OK, well, desensitization worked for fireworks.
Now Abby has decided she is afraid of thunder at age 5.
No idea why. She has been fine for 5 years.


Pat
=====================
Abby - GSD - 7/4/2009
=====================


Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: PaddyD] #322286
08/29/14 03:22 PM
08/29/14 03:22 PM
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M
middleofnowhere Offline
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middleofnowhere  Offline
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M
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Pat,
Try the same routine you used with fireworks with thunder.

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