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Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: shepnterrier] #300456
11/24/13 08:20 PM
11/24/13 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA

When I first read these I was so relieved, because this is what I have always believed and acted upon.

It really is not whether to comfort them or not, but how you do it. Indy had very mild fears. I did not know how to properly address max's fears, they were deep and strange, luckily not to noises though.

Now having a dog with true fear, it's a whole new ballgame. During fireworks I have pre-emptively given her 2-3mg of melatonin (she is 20 lbs) and he has done well. There is a thread around here somewhere that talks about melatonin dosing - some of the recommendations are very high. I have used the same dose in all of my dogs, which is a bit funny, but the smallest is the worst in terms of fear.

Indy became more fearlful of fireworks as she started losing her hearing I think. Then he suddenly got better, but I then realized that he had lost a lot of hearing. When she started losing her hearing, she also started barking when the alrm clock went off (I really miss that when I'm trying wake up still!). So it's possible that changes in their hearing make them more wary in different ways. That is only from a sample of 1!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300468
11/24/13 11:16 PM
11/24/13 11:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
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Sorry Bianca that Miss Moo is upping the anti with storms and given the weather we have had of late, doesn't look like this week is going to be much better frown

From a holistic perspective I can suggest Barbara Fugere in Sydney (holistic vet who does phone consults)...she may have some suggestions....

And it's hard...do you think it's the noise or change in atmosphere or both? How are you and how do you react when storms start approaching? And I agree it's easier and far more effective if you can get any meds in well before the thunder arrives.

Levi is now pretty much deaf...didn't use to give a toss about storms, (even when Kobe was freaking out about them...it was like what's your problem) but as hearing has altered, he now gets quite concerned about them.

I hope you find a solution soon....and I hope the weather improves!!!!

Big hugs to Miss Moo hugging


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300499
11/25/13 07:56 AM
11/25/13 07:56 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you all so much for the ideas/links and feedback. I haven't heard back from the vet yet.

I have tried Melatonin, I first bought the wrong kind and then ordered some from over there and it made no difference either. I don't fret over her, I talk normally but do end up kind of squeezing her when she is beside herself. I play music really loudly but nothing seems to help frown She also will not eat even really yummy treats like salami for an example.

Touch wood, the weather is better now and for the next few days. She didn't used to be like this, I think she was between 1 1/2 - 2 years when she started this (It was before I got Cooper).

Last edited by bianca; 11/25/13 08:00 AM.

Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300501
11/25/13 11:42 AM
11/25/13 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
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Qyn  Offline
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Victoria, Australia
I had a client's dog when I was a groomer that was thunder phobic and it was only certain kinds of music that worked with her and this one worked and it wasn't even played loud yet she would stay calm while it was on. When thunder was forecast and I was available I would let her stay with this playing and it gave the owners peace of mind as she had escaped many times and hurt herself (she lost an eye from running into something in a panic - they do not even know how it happened).

I hope you find something that will work for Molly this has been going on for a very long time.

Last edited by Qyn; 11/25/13 11:42 AM.

Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Qyn] #300564
11/26/13 08:15 AM
11/26/13 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Oh thank you Alison hugging I will download that, heck I will try anything. On the weekend I even tried Country music! (no offence to anyone who likes that). I used to play 'Through a Dogs Ear' but again, no change.

This afternoon the man across the road fired his Harley up (a regular occurance) and she was shaking like a leaf. I was outside so I asked Mum and Dad to keep an eye on her but not fuss. She came right after about an hour.

I haven't heard back from the vet so I called and he is away until Friday. I don't wish to explain her history to the locum vet so will wait until Friday to try and sort this out once and for all.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300674
11/27/13 09:52 AM
11/27/13 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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My vet emailed me today suggesting that I try this veterinary behaviourist. I spoke to him and have a phone consult tomorrow at 7pm. I've also just emailed him a long history! So hoping he can help.

http://www.animalbehaviour.com/


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300743
11/28/13 05:17 AM
11/28/13 05:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
The behaviourist should know what drugs can best help her behaviour. I sure hope that this is the key to making her more comfortable. Please let us know how it goes!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300748
11/28/13 06:03 AM
11/28/13 06:03 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Thanks Lisa, I am really hoping he can help. He did say on the phone that there is not one easy fix, a combined approach is needed. A couple more hours to go!


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300753
11/28/13 08:43 AM
11/28/13 08:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
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Australia
I hope they can help Bianca!


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300754
11/28/13 12:27 PM
11/28/13 12:27 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Thanks Marie smile

Well I think I have a new best friend teehee! He is really nice and we had an hour and a half phone consultation. He will send me a report within a couple of weeks but will send my vet an email tomorrow.
Molly is to go back on Prozac 30mg (was on 20mg before). He said Xanax usually is the drug of choice for storms up to a maximum of 4mg. Because 3mg doesn't make a dent in her, we are going to try a beta blocker (not sure which), start off on a low dose. If that doesn't help then try Clomidine (sp).

He thinks it could be partly due to early impoverished begginings (she was the runt and it was touch and go, hand reared etc) and that at maturity between 12-18 months was the magic time that it all started to go pear shaped. The maturity of genetic propensities. That was when her reactivity went through the roof and barrier frustration, on lead aggression etc. He said it is like a learning phenonem where her drive is anxiety and the barrier is frustration.

He said it's possible it could be nuerological and he consults with a neuro but to pay $2700 for an MRI of her brain, he thinks it is not likely to prove anything.

We are going to try multiple interventions, a DAP diffuser (I have tried the DAP spray. He said thundershirts can be hit and miss and hers makes no difference so to try an old cut up pair of pantyhose - she is going to look like a fat sausage laugh Instead of trying to make her den in her crate (which is huge) use a cardboard box which is sealed up with just enough room for her to get in (small opening cut into it for a door) and put an unwashed item of my clothing in there. Even use the DAP spray in there and while there are no storms teach her to go in their = food treats. And that seems to make so much sense because on the weekend she was digging to try and get in my box of pepsi (never going to fit)

Start to feed her using the Kongs as licking (aural) is a calming sensation and keeps her busy and eventually feed all her food this way. Also apparently around 90% of the serotonin is in the guts and the remainder in the brain.

When there is a storm use deep tissue massage but only for like 10 seconds at a time, particularly around the ear canals, shoulders and thighs.

I really like him, he is a vet first and foremost and has worked with the NZ police dogs (I fostered one once) so he gets brownie points for that!

I am going to get a thunderstorm CD and try and desensitise her.

I told him I have ordered some tracking books to keep her thinking and he thought that was great (although it looks as if the second posting from Dogwise has gone awol too).

He is going to call me on Monday to see if I have thought of any other questions etc and we will give it around 2 months to see how this new programme works. He said he is always a phone call away.

I've probably missed a lot but I was trying to take notes while listening etc and please excuse my spelling mistakes!

I so hope my Molly Moo can feel better crossedfingers But I did tell him I will do whatever it takes.

Even though this is incomplete I hope maybe some of it may help others ~ Lisa thinking of Jazz here - the pantyhose idea is worth a shot and he said you can even use multiple layers.

And if you have made it this far, thank you for reading hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300756
11/28/13 01:42 PM
11/28/13 01:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Sounds like a very productive consult and that there are lots of options to try. I found this part where it is is possibly due to "early impoverished beginnings (she was the runt and it was touch and go, hand reared etc) and that at maturity between 12-18 months was the magic time" very interesting and I did not know this about Molly.


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Qyn] #300782
11/28/13 08:20 PM
11/28/13 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 513
Australia
Shepherds Offline
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Posts: 513
Australia
Wow...that's a very comprehensive discussion you got to have with him and he gets brownie points from me on taking the time to go through everything so thoroughly. I hope this new program brings results and good to know he is only a phone call away and offers up full support.

It sounds very positive and you have a plan....and we all like good plans as then you feel you are doing something useful and constructive.


Life isn't always about the destination....don't miss the journey

Current heart, couch and bed hoggers, Reza and Argi
Always missed - never forgotten, Friday, Manta, Kobe & Levi
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: Shepherds] #300785
11/28/13 10:04 PM
11/28/13 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Very hopeful that this guy will be able to help - sounds very promising! Will be interesting to see the full report. I can hear the relief in your voice smile


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: MaxaLisa] #300826
11/29/13 06:59 AM
11/29/13 06:59 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you ladies hugging I am feeling so much better having a plan now!

Yes Alison, she was a sickly pup and in fact was the only 1 of the 9 in the litter to be named by the breeder. (she was Tessa).

I have ordered the DAP plug in and will pick up the prescriptions from my vet tomorrow. As you will see from the the pics, I need to get a bigger box (well I'm going to get 2 as I know Coop will want his own!) Getting her 'kit' together!






Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Severe storm phobia [Re: bianca] #300829
11/29/13 07:08 AM
11/29/13 07:08 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
OOh I also have learnt recently that one of her littermates and Dam suffer from mild storm phobia.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
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