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Mast Cell Tumors #32965
04/17/10 02:52 AM
04/17/10 02:52 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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Bringing this over from the other forum....

3 years ago Banshee, our oldest boxer, had a stage 1 mast cell tumor removed. She developed another spot on her chest that we have been watching for changes. Welll...it changed..suddenly. It's now 3 times the size it was. The problem is she now has one on her face, a suspicious spot on her side and two on her rear. Chances are very, very high these are mast cell tumors recurring. We have not had them tested yet but are treating this like they are.

My friends that are vet techs said that if she was their dog that they wouldn't do anything. She's now 10 1/2. We take a chance of losing her on the table because of her age and general health. By removing them, we take a high chance of them exploding all through her body and coming back in force. There isn't one tumor...there are 5 in all quadrants of her body.

Right now we're trying to review our options. One of those options being slowing the cancer thru diet and supplements and maintaining her quality of life. My one vet tech friend said we could have another 1-2 years with her if we do that.

I've gotten estimates for aspirates, bloodwork and xrays. Anywhere from 300-500. If we decide not to remove, I'd rather take that money and sink it into maintaining her quality of life. All articles I've found say that boxer tend to have a less aggressive mast cell tumors than other breeds even though they are more likely to get them.

I find it very interesting that she is very allergic to bees. Her face swells right up. I wonder if that is connected in any way.

So...

I found this article on tagamet and benadryl.

http://www.bavariasboxers.com/cancer.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html

And this on injecting steroids around the tumors (so less invasive)
http://bostonterriertn.org/Fannie%20Mae%27s%20Library/Holeopathic/Cancer%20Treatment.html

Diet and supplements

I've read that low carb, high omega 3 can slow it as well.
Here's an article
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2638

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/AltMed/Cancer/Cancer_AltMed.htm


Last edited by LifeAsMe; 04/17/10 03:00 AM.
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33029
04/17/10 05:35 AM
04/17/10 05:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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I've been going through all my old cancer links, and there aren't too many that are mast cell specific, but I did post a number of the diet an tagamet links that I did find.

I see that you found the tagamet references already. A number of folks think it's just that it is good for the histamine, but it has all sorts of anti-cancer benefits. I used it on Indy, but had to take her off because it was too immune stimulating (lyme vaccine issue).

It looks like with all the googling that you have done, that you are already up on a lot of this stuff. Here's an old thread when Indy had her surgery: http://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/133915/Mast_Cell_Tumors#Post133915
There is a post there that talks of Green Tea. I didn't use it for Indy then, but I did later on a funny lump, and it seemed to do something (though I had it removed). Indy is getting a funny lump now, and I may try it on that.

I might also consider a mushroom product. This is the one that Indy's homeopathic vet put her on for her MCT:
http://www.wellvet.com/powermushrooms.html
On the old board, there was a group that was using the mushroom Turkey Tail, and they posted this source for mushrooms:
http://www.mushroomharvest.com/catalog/index.php
I would use the Power Mushrooms, but there are also other good mushroom products out there.

Indy's regular vet said that she has seen some very good responses to prednisone for this type of tumor - interesting about the injection link that you posted. If the disease is systemic, the local injection probably isn't what you want though?

I agree with you about spending the money on quality of life things, rather than aspirates, etc. With so many bumps cropping up, it sounds systemic, and I would just attack it with that in mind. A needle biopsy, where they sick a single needle in and look at it under the microscope should have an answer in about 10 minutes, if you want to go that route. Of course that risks disturbing the tumor. Never easy choices.

I would increase the vitamin C, and also add some bioflavanoids.

There just ain't no way around it, cancer really sucks.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: MaxaLisa] #33036
04/17/10 07:29 AM
04/17/10 07:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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I was looking up tumeric for mast cell tumors, and found this anecdotal info:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x74812#74828


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: MaxaLisa] #33253
04/18/10 02:38 AM
04/18/10 02:38 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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I need some input on good premade RAW products. I want to switch her to RAW to control her carb intake and DH is having a hissy fit about the "hassle" with RAW. If I can find a premade one at a decent price I can get him to compromise.

Isn't there one that is dehydrated? Any bones will have to be ground for her.

Lisa...started her on tagamet and benadryl today. That site said BID for three weeks if there are spots. Do you remember anything about long term use? We, including dogs, build up resistance to antihistamines so eventually the benadryl will have to be increased.

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33262
04/18/10 02:47 AM
04/18/10 02:47 AM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
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Honest Kitchen is deyhdrated. www.thehonestkitchen.com

There's Nature's Variety, Primal, Bravo, Oma's Pride...what else?

When I was looking for the cats, I went on each website, looked at what they had that was complete, how much they suggested the cats would eat, and then priced it...

Not very helpful, but that should start you at looking at some of them.

My cats and I chose Primal. The dogs are getting the NV as treats since the cats won't eat them. laugh

I am sorry about Banshee. Are you doing the pred?

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #33268
04/18/10 02:53 AM
04/18/10 02:53 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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Not yet. I want to have my information before going further with the vet. I know we have a bottle of prednisone around here. I think they are 10mg and the bottle is full.

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #33273
04/18/10 02:58 AM
04/18/10 02:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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LifeAsMe, I didn't continue the meds longerm, so I'm not real helpful there. I switched over from the Benadryl to bioflavanoids and vit C because I knew that Indy wouldn't tolerate meds longterm; I only used it for a month, at most two? (the pred for not quite a week) For the tagamet, once it ramps up the immune system, I don't think you need to increase it. Again, for Indy, it was too good at what it did. Does Banshee have any other autoimmune or health problems?

Tagamet will decrease the acidity in the stomach, which does decreaase things like calcium absorption and perhaps other meds. I wouldn't worry about this for now, but you might, down the road, want to consider a digestive enzyme.

I am using Primal frozen for Max (duck). I would look around and see what's available in your area, and use that to figure out what to look up online. Here I have a choice between Nature's Variety and Primal, and only the Primal here has the duck (needed a novel protein).

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 04/18/10 02:59 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33285
04/18/10 03:07 AM
04/18/10 03:07 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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How does this one look? I would like to see the meat listed first.

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-EasyRaw-Dehydrated-Dog-Food/999244.aspx

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33288
04/18/10 03:14 AM
04/18/10 03:14 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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Banshee has thyroid...on soloxine. Other than that I think she's a fairly normal senior.

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33298
04/18/10 03:19 AM
04/18/10 03:19 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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ok...so questions for the vets are

1) Started tagamet and benadryl. Can it be used longterm?
2) Prednisone - recommended? how much? how long?
3) take in information regarding steroid injections at sites of growths.
4) Full blood panel - what will it show? Will it give an indication of cancer? how advanced?
5) Aspirate - Is there a point to it other than confirming mast cells as suspected per health history?

Things to do...
1) Find a dehydrated RAW diet low in carbs
2) Start her on Curcumin.

I have her on
1000 mg salmon oil
400 mg Vit E
200 mg tagament BID
25 mg benadryl BID
Soloxine BID

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #33336
04/18/10 05:16 AM
04/18/10 05:16 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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The pred and benadryl is the standard recommended treatment.

Your vet may not know about the anti-cancer props of tagamet - I brought in the LEF stuff for my vet to see. She was very impressed by it. There shouldn't be an issue with they thyroid, unless it's autoimmune, and then you'll know because Banshee will start gagging a bit if the thyroid swells. Most likely it shouldn't be an issue, and certainly, right now, the mast cell disease is the over-riding factor.

Indy had very localized cancer, nothing showed in her bloodwork - I'm not sure anything will as long as the organs are okay???? I wonder if the eosinophils would be high? Indy's weren't high, but they were lower after her surgery.

I was looking the other night to see if curcumin or IP6 would help with mast cells, didn't find anything definitive on either. I know both of them are very good for colon cancer though.

As for that dehydrated product you linked - still looks high in starch? There are two reasons why raw is good for cancer. The first is that grains and starches contain sugars, and sugar feeds cancer. The thought on the second is that raw meat in particular (I'm not so sure about dehydrated), contains enzymes. There is a thought that enzyme therapy is an important adjunct to fighting cancer: http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditioncancer.htm


Last edited by MaxaLisa; 04/18/10 05:18 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: MaxaLisa] #39680
05/09/10 01:27 AM
05/09/10 01:27 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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Banshee has an appt on Friday to aspirate the growths, an exam, and while we're there already stressing her out...a thyroid check.

I'll print out all the info I've found and take with me for the vet to look over.

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #39720
05/09/10 03:48 AM
05/09/10 03:48 AM
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Posts: 19,513
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MaxaLisa Offline

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good luck hugging Hope they are just annoying growths.

How is she doing overall?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: MaxaLisa] #39771
05/09/10 03:01 PM
05/09/10 03:01 PM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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She's good. She acts happy and playful. Doesn't seem to be in any distress at all. She makes alot of funny noises while breathing when she sleeps.

There is one growth in the original mast cell spot. It's been there for years and we were told it was caused by excess skin when they sewed the spot back up but it doesn't look right to me so I want that spot, the one on her chest and the one on her face aspirated.

I think they'll have to sedate her a bit to get the aspirations done but Jen is really good with animals so a muzzle and a little muscle might get it done. smile

Re: Mast Cell Tumors [Re: LifeAsMe] #40198
05/11/10 05:10 AM
05/11/10 05:10 AM
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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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How is she doing on the "stuff" you have her on?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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