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Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? #289255
07/15/13 09:18 PM
07/15/13 09:18 PM
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3K9Mom Offline OP
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I'm posing this question here because in Havoc's thread a lot of members mentioned that they give their GSDs Gas-X and Pepcid if they suspect bloat, and I'm wondering where that comes from.

I'm hoping to start conversation and see if we can get informed, educated consensus.

Pepcid (Famotidine) is a histamine (H2) antagonist that inhibits stomach acid production. That presumably will slow digestion.
Quote:

In the bloated stomach, gas and/or food stretches the stomach many times its normal size, causing tremendous abdominal pain.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=672

If you get to a vet/emergency clinic quickly enough, one of the very first things they'll usually do is inject Reglan:

Quote:
Metoclopramide (Reglan)

How This Medication Works

One of the stomach's most important functions is to grind the food we eat into a fine slurry that passes freely through the intestines.A strong rhythm of contraction is necessary to effect this grinding, and this rhythm creates the stomach's motility.

Motility disorders are common and may be chronic (of long duration) or of sudden onset. When motility is reduced in the stomach, food pools there and creates a sensation of nausea and bloating. In some cases, bile refluxes from the intestine back into the stomach, causing irritation and more nausea. Metoclopramide normalizes stomach contractions so that food and bile can pass in the correct direction.


So if the stomach hasn't torsed, we want to increase GI motility, that is, essentially get it to drain off as much food as possible, as quickly as possible.

I'm not quite sure why we would want to neutralize stomach acid then.

I've never been told to give Pepcid to a bloating dog. I had a dog who was predisposed to go into pre-bloat for months. We gave her Reglan before meals, Gas-X afterward, and walked her briskly immediately afterward (exercise is one of the best ways to get the GI tract moving, as any horse person who has dealt with colic will tell you).

None of the vets -- including two board certified internists -- ever told me to give her Pepcid when she was at risk for bloating.

I did give her Pepcid to help her sleep comfortably at night after risk of bloating passed.

So, I'm just wondering if the Pepcid advice is coming from regular vets, internists, surgeons who have done bloat and pexy surgeries, if it's passed around as common knowledge or what.

Since GDV is often fatal, what we do in those first minutes can make all the difference. My bloaty girl passed away in 2009. If the medicine has changed in the last 4 years, I'd like to know for obvious reasons. I have a smaller GSD with a *massive* (bigger than most standard GSDs) chest and GSD mix with a deep chest. I figure it's just a matter of time until my GSD bloats, and who knows what my mix might do?

I'm bringing one of my kids to the vet this afternoon. I'll run this by her as well. Perhaps we can chat with our vets and/or do some research and arrive at an educated consensus.

Thnx.

Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: 3K9Mom] #289256
07/15/13 09:19 PM
07/15/13 09:19 PM
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3K9Mom Offline OP
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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: 3K9Mom] #289257
07/15/13 09:21 PM
07/15/13 09:21 PM
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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: 3K9Mom] #289261
07/15/13 10:10 PM
07/15/13 10:10 PM
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Cincinnati,ohio
Tarheel Offline
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When the dog bloats, the torsion of the stomach would allow acid too pool, creating ulcers in any weakened or torn gastric mucosa. Also, even if there is
no torsion, the acid splashed up as the dog tries to vomit can certainly cause inflammation in the esophagus, if not ulcerating that tissue also.

Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: Tarheel] #289281
07/16/13 02:20 AM
07/16/13 02:20 AM
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Los Lunas, NM
Kayos Offline

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Tarheel I suspect tis is why we were told to give Havoc Pepcid. But, we also were not certain he was bloating and if he was there was no torsion at the time. I suspected he just had gas and/or and upset stomach too. Next time I talk to my vet I will ask this question.

But I would think you would not want a lot of acid in the gut in a bloating dog either, makes sense when you look at it that way.

I also wonder if there is torsion the Pepcid would slow things down a little bit as nothing is going to pass anyway.

Last edited by Kayos; 07/16/13 02:20 AM.

Kathy

PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU, RATN 4/4/12
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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: Kayos] #289344
07/16/13 05:13 PM
07/16/13 05:13 PM
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arycrest Offline
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Sadly I've had three dogs who had bloat w/torsion, and one who had stomach torsion without bloat (I shared this experience on the board since I'd never heard of it before). All four received emergency medical assistance and survived.
LINK TO Slider's unusual stomach tosion without bloat!

Over the years I've had a few episodes where one of the Hooligans has gotten "bloaty" but did not get to the point where medical attention was needed (especially with Bruiser ... the KING OF STOMACH GAS ... I finally got his stomach tacked).

I've never given Pepcid A/C when the Hooligans are "bloaty" or when I've suspected bloat, and unless my vet tells me otherwise I never will!!!

BUT ... I have used Gas-X successfully!!! NO ... I don't know if it prevented torsion or not, but it has helped relieve bloatly stomachs (unless of course torsion has taken place which in that case it's useless).


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: arycrest] #289361
07/16/13 08:03 PM
07/16/13 08:03 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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I peronally don't think that the pepcid does a spit of difference to affect the outcome in bloat. I do think that the GasX can though, if it's given soon enough.

The gas can cause a dog to torsion. However, once torsed (is that a word?), I think the dog can be fill with air/gas that the gasx will have no affect. So I hope that owners do not depend on the gas-x to prevent torsion - if the torsion occurs first, it would do a thing. For example, max's was triggered by drinking a lot of water and then the stomach flipped when he did a recall - gas did not cause that on that day.

What Tarheel says makes complete ense, and I repect her input in all drug matters smile , o I went and googled, and found that pepcid can protect before a surgery, and of course it's often used after during the healing phase. So, it certainly won't hurt. In human, one site said it can take 30 minutes to start working, and I would hope that anyone that thinks their dog I bloating would be well on their way to the vet's office.

I remember when Max bloated, my dad was trying to tell me he was fine, but I had already been on the forums long enough to know what was happening. I believe that he was 4 year old, and I think it was on indy's birthday.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 07/16/13 08:07 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: arycrest] #289364
07/16/13 08:10 PM
07/16/13 08:10 PM
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Cincinnati,ohio
Tarheel Offline
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I never said anyone HAD to give their dog Pepcid if bloat was suspected, just answered a question as to why it was given. H2 blockers can also be given to people or pets who have an illness with excessive vomiting; less acid expelled with vomitus means less irritation/damage to esophageal mucosa and even teeth in humans. Also, in humans who have long term or critical illnesses which prevent them from eating, H2 blockers are regularly added to the intravenous nutrition they are given to keep their stomach from damage. I doubt you will geta consensus: different vets do different things depending on education and experience. For some, maybe Pepcid is given as palliative care. Ever had excess stomach acid to the point of ulceration? It is painful.

Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: Tarheel] #289383
07/16/13 09:00 PM
07/16/13 09:00 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Tarheel, please excuse me if I implied that's what you said - I did not mean that at all, I hadn't thought about protecting the tomach from the acid, which makes a lot of sense.

I was on zantac for years before I got my allergies under control, so I do know how painful that can be.

What I was concerned about is what I think that 3K9 was posting about - will it affect whether the dog bloats or not? And I don't think it will. I wouldn't want someone thinking they don't need to keep the gas-x on hand because there is pepcid in the house.

Ironically, one side effect of pepcid, etc, in some individuals, appears to bloating (though I would not expect this in short term use!). Long term use can also affect the bacteria in the stomach. I could see someone trying to give this on a regular basis if they thought it would prevent bloat. I know some people give gas-x regularly for this reason, have no clue if regular use does help, but I suspect in certain dogs, it might. Wouldn't have made a difference for nax, jut gave him loose stools.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: MaxaLisa] #289394
07/16/13 10:39 PM
07/16/13 10:39 PM
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Cincinnati,ohio
Tarheel Offline
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That wasn't directed at your reply post, but to the one from Arycrest with all the exclamation points. I'm sorry if it seemed directed at you.

Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: MaxaLisa] #289396
07/16/13 10:46 PM
07/16/13 10:46 PM
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Tarheel ... I'm not sure if you're referring to my message or Lisa's? I hope I wasn't coming off as being rude ... If I was I apologize!!!

I know you were responding to a question ... and I mentioned Pepcid-AC in my answer but since I was talking about bloat and torsion I didn't elaborate. FWIW my vet has had me give Pepcid-AC to the Hooligans before ... usually to relieve digestive problems caused by certain medications ... they never had a problem taking it and it helped them a lot. I've also used the prescription Sucralfate.

But when a dog is bloating I wouldn't give it unless my vet told me too ... Gas-X is the only thing I'd give. I'll ask her about it the next time I go up there and see what she says.

Again, I apologize if I was rude!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: Tarheel] #289444
07/17/13 01:35 PM
07/17/13 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tarheel
That wasn't directed at your reply post, but to the one from Arycrest with all the exclamation points. I'm sorry if it seemed directed at you.
Tarheel ... I posted the last message before I read this. If you check other messages I write, about any subject, I've always used !!!s regardless of the topic ... it's a habit ... AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR APPEARING RUDE! (with only one !).

Last edited by arycrest; 07/17/13 01:36 PM.

Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: arycrest] #289466
07/17/13 07:45 PM
07/17/13 07:45 PM
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Gayle loves exclamation points laugh


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: MaxaLisa] #290087
07/24/13 06:08 AM
07/24/13 06:08 AM
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3K9Mom Offline OP
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Sorry for starting a conversation then dropping out, but I've had family matters to attend to. I've also had a couple kids end up at the vet's office, one at the emergency clinic.

I ran this question by both vets. Neither said they'd prescribe Pepcid on a dog who is actively bloating or one that appears to be in pre-bloat. The emergency vet said she wouldnt even bother with Gas-x. So i asked her, I've long held a prescripción for injectible Reglan prescribed by my regular vet in the event of pre-bloat. Would she use that?

She stopped, looked me straight in the eye and said, "we don't know what causes bloat; we usually can't predict when it will become GDV. We don't know a lot. All we know is that every minute matters. With this dog, I'd throw him in the car and drive to the nearest vet who can treat every scenario as fast as I could."

For the record, her clinic isn't the closest one, and I had mentioned that to her. She's made me rethink my bloat protocol completely.

Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: 3K9Mom] #290090
07/24/13 06:55 AM
07/24/13 06:55 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
I ran this question by both vets. Neither said they'd prescribe Pepcid on a dog who is actively bloating or one that appears to be in pre-bloat. The emergency vet said she wouldnt even bother with Gas-x.

I think that's a bit closed-minded - gas-x doesn't hurt, and seems to have helped a number of dogs.

My concern though are the people that think their dog is bloating and give the gas-x *instead* of taking their dog to the vet. It should be on the way...thoe strip are pretty handy and easy to use.

Jazz here probably has the chest for bloat, guess dachshunds do bloat too.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Pepcid WHILE dog is bloating? Can we talk? [Re: MaxaLisa] #290179
07/25/13 02:32 PM
07/25/13 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...

My concern though are the people that think their dog is bloating and give the gas-x *instead* of taking their dog to the vet. It should be on the way...thoe strip are pretty handy and easy to use.

Jazz here probably has the chest for bloat, guess dachshunds do bloat too.
I agree that Gas-X shouldn't be used in lieu of going to the vet ... it should not be a "wait and see" approach to treatment!!! I know when I've given one of the Hooligans Gas-X I sometimes didn't go to the vet because the dog improved while I was getting ready to go (i.e. I always have to put the other dogs away, call my vet or the ER that I have an emergency, throw some clothes on if I'm not presentable, load the gassy/bloaty dog into the van etc.) ... usually this "window" takes me 5 minutes or so from the time I "suspect" bloat and give a Gas-X to actually pulling out of the driveway!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
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