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Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) #288523
07/08/13 07:52 AM
07/08/13 07:52 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Cooper has been fed Canidae grain free with raw for the last maybe 5-6 months with no problems. About a month ago, he started bile vomiting in the late afternoon so he gets a small lunch now (as well as breakfast and dinner) and he hasn't been sick since. I thought it a bit weird but it didn't ring any alarm bells.

Yesterday on our morning walk he had a mucusy(sp) poop (really stinky). So I stopped all supplements and he has had just dry since then. His poops have been fine since then until on this mornings walk. Same thing again (not quite as runny).

I took a stool sample to the vet and there was nothing showing. He mentioned it could be diet related and also mentioned it *could* be something along the lines of Lymphocytic-plasmacytic enteritis (LPE).

I am really looking for thoughts/ideas I guess please. Do I worry about it yet or see how he goes? I think if it was just the poop I wouldn't worry so much but the bile vomiting if not feed 3 x is a bit odd?

Do I switch to a different food (vet said Hills ZD) and see or do I ask for more testing. I am a bit short on funds but will test bloods etc if needed?


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: bianca] #288529
07/08/13 09:35 AM
07/08/13 09:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Hills z/d is very expensive, and there's not a lot of nutrition in it. LPE is one of the things that jazz has. It means that the colon is inflamed and those are the type of cells that are essentially causing the inflammation. I think there are three or four type of colitis, and the LPE I the most common.

But Cooper is a GSD, and if he had anything really wrong, I would first suspect SIBO.

The first thing I would try I probiotics. I prefer something with acidophilous, bifidus, and bulgaricus.

If that doesn't work, I would try tylan, then flagyl. Testing for SIBO is imprecise, so I'm not sure I would even test.

If you have ome B-12 left over from molly, or even a B-complex, that might be helpful, but I would first try the B12 and note response.

Easiest and cheapest thing to do is first load him up on probiotics and see if that helps.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: MaxaLisa] #288530
07/08/13 09:38 AM
07/08/13 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Oh, if the probiocis don't help, I might try a bland diet with probiotics.

Also check color and smell of the current bag of kibble - kibble gets easily compromised.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: MaxaLisa] #288531
07/08/13 09:38 AM
07/08/13 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
And most important, give Cooper a big smooch from me - Molly too!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: MaxaLisa] #288536
07/08/13 12:13 PM
07/08/13 12:13 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you so very much Lisa hugging I appreciate it so much. That was my first thought this morning SIBO or EPI but I don't really know enough about either. I have some good probiotics here so will start that with breakfast.

Would the vomiting mean anything?

ETA: Bag of food appears to be normal.

Thank you again and a smooch for sweet Jazzy too please! smile

Last edited by bianca; 07/08/13 12:14 PM.

Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: bianca] #288539
07/08/13 12:27 PM
07/08/13 12:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,032
L
LifeAsMe Offline
Carpal Tunnel
LifeAsMe  Offline
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L
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,032
Originally Posted By: bianca
Cooper has been fed Canidae grain free with raw for the last maybe 5-6 months with no problems. About a month ago, he started bile vomiting in the late afternoon so he gets a small lunch now (as well as breakfast and dinner) and he hasn't been sick since. I thought it a bit weird but it didn't ring any alarm bells.

Yesterday on our morning walk he had a mucusy(sp) poop (really stinky). So I stopped all supplements and he has had just dry since then. His poops have been fine since then until on this mornings walk. Same thing again (not quite as runny).

I


Interesting. We were feeding Canidae ALS and both dogs eating it were throwing up and had diarrhea. We switched to Victor and so far so good.

Maybe it's not Cooper but the food? Where is yours manufactured? I assume it's different than the states but maybe the raw materials are sourced from the same place?

Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: LifeAsMe] #288542
07/08/13 12:57 PM
07/08/13 12:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Well ... while I am not saying Cooper and Quynne will have the same solution there are some similarities. Quynne still has to have breakfast before noon or she will occasionally bile vomit (obviously she is a brunch not a dunch girl smile ) and also occasionally has mucous poop. I find the mucous for her seems to be related to a higher proportion of muscle meat to bone than normal ie the meaty bones are more meatier than usual. The bile vomit is rare as the only time breakfast is late is if I have been interrupted by something and meals get out of sync but it still happens especially since I have reduced the volume of her meals as I need to keep her thinner than I was due to her UAP ED - I have also given her a little extra in the middle of the day if she has vomited and that seems to fix the problem. In her case it is just something I keep aware of and adjust quantities of meat to bone and also give more at breakfast than dinner and it resolves.

I hope this does not turn into another issue for Cooper - the poor pup and you have been through enough over the last year or so! hugging


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: Qyn] #288545
07/08/13 01:04 PM
07/08/13 01:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
I think Lisa covered it. Hope Cooper gets through this fast and easily for you!


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: Kayos] #288553
07/08/13 02:53 PM
07/08/13 02:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,582
SeanRescueMom Offline
Carpal Tunnel
SeanRescueMom  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,582
Thinking of Cooper, he's had his share of health problems and I hope he feels better soon. The info. Lisa gave you sounds very helpful. hug


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: LifeAsMe] #288567
07/08/13 05:16 PM
07/08/13 05:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe

Interesting. We were feeding Canidae ALS and both dogs eating it were throwing up and had diarrhea. We switched to Victor and so far so good.

Maybe it's not Cooper but the food? Where is yours manufactured? I assume it's different than the states but maybe the raw materials are sourced from the same place?


Maybe it isn't cooper!

Btw, I think vomiting can occur with any tomach upset. There was someone on the old forum that had the bile vomit thing, an probiotics took care of it.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: MaxaLisa] #288581
07/08/13 07:37 PM
07/08/13 07:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,745
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,745
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
There was someone on the old forum that had the bile vomit thing, an probiotics took care of it.


I haven't tried probiotics for Mars but he has vomited bile in the evening and refused to eat the midday snack we left him, so I turned to Ruth's slippery elm. He loves it and there is a one-to-one relationship (when I'm around) SE = no vomiting, no SE = vomiting.

I hope your black puppy is better smile

Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: Mary Jane] #288588
07/08/13 08:02 PM
07/08/13 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Oh yes, great idea! Slippery elm (if there are no elm allergies!), and/or l-glutamine. Marshmallow if slippery elm I not tolerated.

(Eta: The SE will help treat the assaulted gut, but may not treat the underlying cause, o I would firat note response to probiotics. )

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 07/08/13 08:04 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: MaxaLisa] #288592
07/08/13 08:21 PM
07/08/13 08:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
I am using a really good prebiotic/digestive supplement made by InClover called Optagest. It has been very helpful for both Rafi and Kailor. Also, Rafi had terrible digestive problems when I adopted him and I started him on Honest Kitchen's Perfect Form and that has also been helpful for him.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: BowWowMeow] #288598
07/08/13 09:04 PM
07/08/13 09:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
I am no help but wishing Cooper the very best!


Leah
Re: Cooper - help needed please (stomach issue) [Re: bianca] #288602
07/08/13 09:09 PM
07/08/13 09:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
Natalie559 Offline
Veteran
Natalie559  Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
The bile wouldn't have be concerned really and the mucosy poop, I'd give it a little while, maybe he just ate something you didn't see or something that irritated his stomach.

Is the current bag of food new? Any new raw ingredients or a bone he usually doesn't have but did? Mom or Dad sneak him some tid bits?


Natalie

enjoying life with Penny 6/04 & Blaze 11/12
while Sasha 1/05-11/12 watches over us

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