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Re: New Journey starts today [Re: Shepherds] #283614
05/26/13 10:09 AM
05/26/13 10:09 AM
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anniej Offline OP
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Well - she is here....! I picked her up from a broken hearted foster mom on Saturday morning. She is a big bear of a dog (will post photographs later)not at all like the photographs on the rescue site.

Foster mom had highlighted a number of issues - doesnt like the car and whines a lot and has major seperation anxiety. She does not like being confined in small spaces as she was locked in a small kitchen.

She was really good in the car considering we had a long four hour journey - whined a little but really was ok.

So beautiful as she is - she does have some issues which I could do with some advice on:

Food guarding - growled at me when i went near her food while she was eating

Toy guarding - her energy shifts and she becomes possive and runs away

Seperation anxiety - panics every time i go near the front door and when i left her to get something from the car she started barking and throwing herself at the front door.

While i know in principle what to do about these issues I would appreciate some advice. Would you introduce her to a crate given her issues with small spaces?

We have had a really quite day and will continue to have a quite week. I cant bring myself to stay in for a whole week - but our walk was short and very quite - she walks lovely on a halti and showed no aggression towards the couple of dogs we met.

I am so very happy to have her in my life - i am sure it will be quite a learning journey.

Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #283674
05/26/13 11:29 PM
05/26/13 11:29 PM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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groovy yay, she's home.

...And wow! sounds like she does come with some issues that have to be worked out...

I didn't stay in for the whole week either, but I did follow the general rule where I didn't push jazz, and was just in tune to the signals that were being sent. I think you will get a sense of that.

Pardon me for saying this, but I think it's unethical for a rescue to end out a dog with major SA without fulling warning you and talking with you about it. I speak from my own experience here. My hope is that once he is in a safe and secure environment (from her point of view), that that will relax and fade away.

When Max first came, he guarded his food. I didn't try to do anything about it until I had a relationship built with him otherwise. I see the food issue and the toy guarding similarly, and think that they will both get better as the relationship gets better. This is where I wish Jean had time to post here to help frown

The SA. The crate. I would never close a crate door on her until this is better under control. SA dogs like to feel like they have some control over their environment and forced separation is really bad for them. I would first make the crate a safe place where good things are asociated with it (open door always), and would not even attempt to close the door until you can go out of her site without signs of panic. Karen Overall has a relaxation technique that is probably pretty helpful here, and I will try to find it later.

How old is she again? How long was he in foster care? Were their other dogs in the household?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: New Journey starts today [Re: MaxaLisa] #283708
05/27/13 05:50 AM
05/27/13 05:50 AM
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anniej Offline OP
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Thanks Lisa thats really helpful and confirms my instincts. She was in foster for six weeks with no other dogs but two small grandchildren. The lady really loved her so i suspect all her issues are worse because she had to leave that home where she felt really safe. I have borrowed some childrens safety gates so i can leave a room without her but she can stil see me at all times and this seemed to work yesterday.

I was told she was four years old but my instinct is she is younger - i am taking her for a vet check at the end of the week. We have an appointment for accupuncture in two weeks to try and get her off steriods. She is such a gentle soul - very different from my wild child Chamsa - although she reacts in the same way to cats( dream of getting a cat one day dies again:)

Right another day begins...

Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #283744
05/27/13 06:00 PM
05/27/13 06:00 PM
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PositiveDog Offline
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Quote:
another day begins
thumbup

Looking forward to updates on her. Any pictures yet? hint hint


Bonnie

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Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #283750
05/27/13 06:33 PM
05/27/13 06:33 PM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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So, she pent a lot of time isolate in her original home, and then 6 weeks I just enough time to get really settled. Makes sense. That she is okay behind the gates is extremely encouraging. I did that with jazz and this little 12 pound pup scaled a 3 foot xpen to jump out out of fear.

They recommend, for SA, teaching a "safety phrase" that you use when you will return quickly. I did this with indy, but never realized it. I used "right back" when it was just a short trip, say to the car to get something, and "it'll be awhile" when I was leaving for the day. I know she understood it. Jazz knows the difference in those phrases when I'm in the kitchen fixing food smile , but not in the context of leaving yet, that is part of my summer project.

When you want to start leaving her site, you can maybe give her something of high value, like a filled kong, get her interested in it, and go out of sight, for only seconds at a time, to test how that will work.

I hope that you will be able to get her health straightened out too, without much trouble.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: New Journey starts today [Re: MaxaLisa] #283766
05/27/13 09:19 PM
05/27/13 09:19 PM
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BowWowMeow Offline
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Ok, I have dealt with all of the above.

1. I have a different approach to bringing a foster or new adoptee home. My approach is not to flood on the socialization front but to do plenty of walks, etc. in order to help bring down their anxiety level (always works for me!). This has been especially important for the dogs who came with extra baggage.

2. Rafi came to me with major SA. I started counter-conditioning as soon as I figured out what was going on. I followed Patricia McConnell's protocol. You can either download her little booklet, "I'll Be Home Soon" or find it somewhere on line. He had MAJOR panic attacks when crated and did damage to himself. I could have left him with the best treat in the world and the outcome was always the same. Consequently I have never crated him since. However, he does spend time alone in my truck and in other people's cars and is fine in there. And he is fine loose in the house, since I did the counter-conditioning. IN fact, I can leave him at anyone's house and he's a little anxious but nothing like he used to be.

I also used a DAP spray and lots of calming things. T-touch works really well, if you know it or you can look it up on the web. Using calming signals also help when she is anxious and you're right there. Rafi still prefers to follow me EVERYWHERE but I do tell him to stay a lot of the time because of the stress on his joints going up and down the stairs, etc.

3. I would leave her alone while eating but as she is settling in I would start tossing pieces of chicken or something yummy towards her bowl while she's eating. Same with toys, don't force the issue but see if you can start trading up: if you drop that toy you get this delicious treat. Make it a fun game. Rafi doesn't growl with a toy but he does run away with it. I don't really care though because it's not resource guarding for him as much as it is a game. Chama was a resource guarder and I made it worse by trying to force the issue instead of trading up.

Good luck! Looking forward to pictures!


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: New Journey starts today [Re: MaxaLisa] #283768
05/27/13 09:24 PM
05/27/13 09:24 PM
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anniej Offline OP
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Kong is on my list of things to buy to tomorrow - she is extremely stressed by the car - i am guessing the only time she has been in one is when she has left a family. So i plan to do one small two minute journey to the park daily and gradually extend the journey time. I like the idea of the different phrases for different lengths of time - i will start doing that tomorrow.

Sorry about lack of photographs - tomorrow i will sort it out. forgot to mention that I have changed her name to Cara - which means friend in Irish - Chamsa meant friend in Setswana - so their is comfort in continuing the lineage. ( although she has been quickly nicknamed Cara Bear - because she is like so big and cuddly!)

She is so good on the lead that she is now off the head collar and walking really great on her harness. She is curious with other dogs - a bit of dominance was exhibited today with one dog but considering we came across about seven that was not bad and i am really please with her behaviour outside.

I am still struggling with the loss of Chamsa but I know Cara will help in the healing process. I dream of Chamsa nightly and she always comes running up to me playing with other dogs- so very happy and no longer in pain. Although it still hurts to wake up to her gone having Cara helps so much so despite all the wobbles its ok - time will heal both of us smile

Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #283770
05/27/13 09:27 PM
05/27/13 09:27 PM
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BowWowMeow Offline
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Re: the car--you might play a game where you open both doors and throw a treat in and let her get it and go out the other side. Keep doing that until she associates the car with the fun game, then the little trips, etc.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #283810
05/28/13 01:57 AM
05/28/13 01:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: anniej
I am still struggling with the loss of Chamsa but I know Cara will help in the healing process. I dream of Chamsa nightly and she always comes running up to me playing with other dogs- so very happy and no longer in pain. Although it still hurts to wake up to her gone having Cara helps so much so despite all the wobbles its ok - time will heal both of us smile

You are both on a healing journey hugging

It sounds like, overall, she is doing really well, considering everything.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: New Journey starts today [Re: MaxaLisa] #283828
05/28/13 11:30 AM
05/28/13 11:30 AM
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Braverhund Offline
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Annie, you are amazing. hugging It does seem waking each morning is the hardest, doesn't it? Chamsa is surely as well as you see her in your dreams. Sweet Miss Cara and you, together, will help eachother heal and grow stronger. Together, you have a bright future full of shared adventures. I am betting that a year from now, you'll have found so very many wonderful ways that you and Cara truly "click." fetch


Patti
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Re: New Journey starts today [Re: Braverhund] #283942
05/29/13 12:01 PM
05/29/13 12:01 PM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
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I heard from a little bird that you got a new girl - her heart is broken too - like everyone is saying, you can heal together.

She may never be "normal" but you don't know. Layers will peel off, and in about a year, you will see the dog you will have, though she will always continue to grow.

I do a lot of leaving alone for about 2 weeks. I do my thing, I let them do theirs, they initiate contact (or not). I do a lot of exercise time with them, in the yard so they can really run it out (fenced so that is a help). That is where I engage them most - where there is room for them to get away as needed. Lots of times this leads to fun, but the goal for me is to just watch them, and let them watch me. If they progress quickly, excellent, if not, whatever! But I am not going to take them places or do things that might set them up where they won't succeed, and the reason they won't succeed is that I don't know them well enough/can't read them quickly enough, and they don't know me or trust me. Some dogs can do that quickly, others cannot - so I wait and see how they are. She is probably a dog that is going to need that time.

I especially leave them alone when they eat - they have a crate, often covered with a sheet - to eat in so that way they have their space, and the crate is associated with a good thing.

I don't set goals - my goal is to get up in the morning with the dog, and from there, it's all a bonus. If they do things, great, if not, we already met our goal, so no losses. If it is a dog I am going to have for a lifetime, no need to rush it. If it's a dog I am going to foster, if I do rush it, I could make it worse/harder for them.

I do NILIF - in terms of making them do to get - it's different for every dog, maybe they need to glance at me, maybe it's a sit, whatever the behavior is that they can achieve at first is what it takes to get something. It's just to help give them the structure needed to relax.

So mine is a lazy way - unless there is an immediate problem that has to be addressed - we do nothing except put structure in place, move in the yard with no distractions or worries of what if this happens (because nothing is going to happen), and letting them have the peace of mind that this person is going to let me be - while I eat, explore, etc. smile

Congratulations!!!

Re: New Journey starts today [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #284063
05/30/13 06:01 AM
05/30/13 06:01 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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All of that makes a lot of sense Jean!

Annie, how are things going?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: New Journey starts today [Re: MaxaLisa] #284084
05/30/13 12:10 PM
05/30/13 12:10 PM
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Braverhund Offline
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Jean, that was good to read, I really enjoyed that. I can imagine that intuitive Annie and Cara are going to heal and thrive together. Love, understanding, and patience are such healing things. bloomrose Cara is so very fortunate to have you, Annie!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: New Journey starts today [Re: Braverhund] #284201
05/31/13 12:20 PM
05/31/13 12:20 PM
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anniej Offline OP
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What wonerful advice - thank you Jean. We are taking it slow and just getting to know each other. I have a tiny garden so we do go out - same walk every day into a lovely wood with a stream, no one there but us. I introduced her too my lovely dog walker yesterday - she has 4 GS and is an experienced dog trainer as well - she will need to start walking with her in a couple of weeks when my job becomes busy. Today she came for coffee, next week she will join us on our walks - slowly slowly!

I have ignore her most of the time in the house and while she is still really clingy she is getting better - i went out and left her with a friend yesterday, she cried for a couple of minutes then went to sleep. I gnored her when I came back but she didnt go crazy and was lovely and calm.

She is more of a protective dog than Chamsa was (she knew my job was to protect her not the other way around) and will bark when someone comes to the door but again is calm once they come in.

Health wise she is doing great - we went to the vet yesterday and got the all clear to begin weaning her off the steriods. I intend to feed her raw so have started to add one table spoon of green tripe to her fish and sweet potatoes - she looked so happy when she tasted it.

So all in all a pretty good week - she is a beautiful dog and a great companion allready. Thanks everyone for your help and support

Re: New Journey starts today [Re: anniej] #284202
05/31/13 12:35 PM
05/31/13 12:35 PM
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hugging hugging hugging Such a lovely beginning to a beautiful love story! Cara's delight in her scruptuous green tripe is so dear. May your dogwalker and Cara form a comfortable bond, too, so that her excursions while you're at work will be pleasant and interesting for her. Things truly sound off to a wonderful start. I love that Cara's personality is beginning to be revealed, and that the two of you will grow stronger together in your bond of love and mutual support. May your new job be fulfilling and enjoyable for you, Annie! I will be continuing to send positive energy for you and Cara. vaseroses


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

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