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Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa] #282877
05/19/13 04:26 PM
05/19/13 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 981
TimberWolf Offline
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[quote=MaxaLisa, and expect her to feel better soon, and then we start all over with the taper plans, barring anything else cropping up. [/quote]

Gosh, I sure hope not!!! Enough of this!! Time for you two to get a major break.


...in remembrance of all Timber Wolves unjustifyably hunted down and killed for no valid reason at all.
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: TimberWolf] #282880
05/19/13 06:56 PM
05/19/13 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
I second that!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa] #282906
05/20/13 07:36 AM
05/20/13 07:36 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
I third this!


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: bianca] #282985
05/21/13 12:25 AM
05/21/13 12:25 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 108
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m&j Offline
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Posts: 108
Good luck tomorrow. grouphug

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: m&j] #283098
05/22/13 12:55 AM
05/22/13 12:55 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 108
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m&j Offline
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m&j  Offline
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M
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Posts: 108
How did it go?

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: m&j] #283107
05/22/13 05:01 AM
05/22/13 05:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Thanks for keeping tabs on us!!

The appointment was a big waste of time and money. I was pretty sure that this wasn't going to yield answers, but it also just further reminded me of the limitations of Western medicine, in addition to the dogmatic thinking that many are indoctrinated into. One thing I do like about the IMS (as opposed to this neuro) is that he has a pretty open mind.

She did recommend a behaviourist over at UC Davis, consults start at $300, and it's a long process, blah, blah, blah.....which would be a good idea if I thought that the anxiety really was all behavioural. This is her gut, and whatever is causing protein in her urine, concentrated urine, crystals, and also the abnormalities we're seeing on the bloodwork. Also whatever is causing her inability to keep the C Perf in check on its own.

We also had an appt with the holistic vet today, and are trying a new herbal for her digestion, particularly to give in the morning to see if that relieves some discomfort which may increase her anxiety.

There is a significant amount of gut inflammation that can be felt externally when she has no flagyl, so that will be the focus of trying to get her better.

We continue on!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa] #283115
05/22/13 08:37 AM
05/22/13 08:37 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
I'm sorry that the first appointment went like that but pleased that the holistic vet has given you another option. Keeping everything crossed that this is the beginning of a happy, healthy Jazz hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: bianca] #283127
05/22/13 12:06 PM
05/22/13 12:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,767
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
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Posts: 2,767
There are gut neurological conditions, so it made a lot of sense for the IMS to refer you. I'm really sorry that the neurologist was unable or unwilling to think through Jazz' condition. That morning anxiety must be terribly painful, so if it can be alleviated, it will be a big deal.

Do you mind repeating whether Jazz has elevated IgA? I'm into IgA not for the GSD connection but, as you know, because it's active for gut and genital infections.

We all hope that things start looking up

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa



MJ

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: Mary Jane] #283130
05/22/13 01:14 PM
05/22/13 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 981
TimberWolf Offline
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TimberWolf  Offline
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Posts: 981
It's so much harder not to have any answers..yet, there is evidence that something is wrong. Feels like walking around in a dark room desperately trying to find the light switch. This may be totally ridiculous, so forgive me for my ignorance, but what if you discontinue all supplements and meds....give it two weeks for everything to clear her system and see what happens? Again, this is probably a ridiculous suggestion.

The reason why I am suggesting this is that some of her symptoms are similar to what I experienced which started with a UTI. I took Cipro but when the prescribed allotment was gone, the symptoms were still the same and the urinalysis showed the protein, etc..plus I was shaking as well uncontrollably. The urinalysis results showed that it was not a bladder/kidney infection. It was the freakiest thing. They ran all sorts of tests including inside and outside ultrasounds and could not find anything wrong. I loaded up on supplements per advise of my naturalist doctor during that time and it got worse. When I discontinued the Cipro it continued getting worse to the point where I was in so much pain..especially at night and shaking all night long. I realized that the doctors were of no help (in this case) and I decided to discontinue everything.

I can't say that I noticed getting better immediately...it took at least a month when I noticed some difference. It took a year for all the symptoms to completely clear. Then I started adding some supplements again such as Probiotics and Enzymes but very moderately. I am fine now. I just can't help to see similarities here but I may be wrong. I hope my comment doesn't offend. I am just trying to help. Hugs.

Last edited by LMS; 05/22/13 01:18 PM.

...in remembrance of all Timber Wolves unjustifyably hunted down and killed for no valid reason at all.
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: TimberWolf] #283167
05/22/13 06:04 PM
05/22/13 06:04 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 108
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m&j Offline
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Posts: 108
OK, so let's go with the holistic vet's plan........let's let him/her work their magic to get that gut inflammation down.

Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: m&j] #283193
05/23/13 12:19 AM
05/23/13 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
Lisa - have you ever considered cholodin for Jazzy? It seems to help older dogs by giving them natural 'things' their bodies no longer produce, or do not produce enough.

I am curious if maybe there is something Jazzy's body is not giving her that it should.

I am so uneducated on these high level health matters, but thinking on my level - would it be worth a try?

If you think it might I can send you a few to try on her.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: TimberWolf] #283232
05/23/13 09:04 AM
05/23/13 09:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: LMS
It's so much harder not to have any answers..yet, there is evidence that something is wrong. Feels like walking around in a dark room desperately trying to find the light switch. This may be totally ridiculous, so forgive me for my ignorance, but what if you discontinue all supplements and meds....give it two weeks for everything to clear her system and see what happens? Again, this is probably a ridiculous suggestion.

The reason why I am suggesting this is that some of her symptoms are similar to what I experienced which started with a UTI. I took Cipro but when the prescribed allotment was gone, the symptoms were still the same and the urinalysis showed the protein, etc..plus I was shaking as well uncontrollably. The urinalysis results showed that it was not a bladder/kidney infection. It was the freakiest thing. They ran all sorts of tests including inside and outside ultrasounds and could not find anything wrong. I loaded up on supplements per advise of my naturalist doctor during that time and it got worse. When I discontinued the Cipro it continued getting worse to the point where I was in so much pain..especially at night and shaking all night long. I realized that the doctors were of no help (in this case) and I decided to discontinue everything.

I can't say that I noticed getting better immediately...it took at least a month when I noticed some difference. It took a year for all the symptoms to completely clear. Then I started adding some supplements again such as Probiotics and Enzymes but very moderately. I am fine now. I just can't help to see similarities here but I may be wrong. I hope my comment doesn't offend. I am just trying to help. Hugs.

Elvi, no offense at all! It sounds amazingly similar.

The problem here is that after a couple of months, she continues to decine, and bloodwork only gets worse frown if the C Perf doesn't get under control, I could lose her to HGE easily. I am not sure if the tremors and the similar thing you describe are related to that or not.

Very very weird though. Hopefully soon-ish, by july, she will be off of abx.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: PositiveDog] #283233
05/23/13 09:06 AM
05/23/13 09:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Lisa - have you ever considered cholodin for Jazzy? It seems to help older dogs by giving them natural 'things' their bodies no longer produce, or do not produce enough.

I am curious if maybe there is something Jazzy's body is not giving her that it should.

I am so uneducated on these high level health matters, but thinking on my level - would it be worth a try?

If you think it might I can send you a few to try on her.


Bonnie, I too have wondered if there is some deficiency.

Did we ever figure out what's in the cholodin?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: MaxaLisa] #283245
05/23/13 12:55 PM
05/23/13 12:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,479
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,479
New Milford, CT
Active Ingredient(s)

CHOLODIN® contains: Phosphatidylcholine (from soy lecithin), choline (as chloride), dl-methionine, inositol, zinc (as oxide), niacinamide, vitamin E, thiamine (mononitrate), riboflavin, pyridoxine (HCl), selenium (sodium selenite), vitamin B12 (cobalamin concentrate), and dexpanthenol. Formulated with a flavor base.

From this webiste


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Jazzy Jazz Jazmine, clostridium perfringens [Re: Woodreb] #283251
05/23/13 02:03 PM
05/23/13 02:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
Lisa - in one of Skye's pages I added a lengthy list of the ingredients, as posted above, and their purpose.

In the mean time, here is a really good page with info about the ingredients.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/entirelypets/cholodininfo.html

And from that link:

Known metabolic functions of some of the components present in CHOLODIN.

Choline:

Dietary factor in preventing fatty liver syndrome

Methyl (CH3) donor for synthesis of many important biological and metabolic compounds.

Precursor of acetylcholine

Component of phosphatidylcholine, a major component of the plasma membrane of mammalian cells

Phospatidylcholine (Lecithin):

Comprises 10% to 50% of plasma membrane of all mammalian cells

Metabolism yields choline for acetylcholine formation

Component of important receptors on cell membrane

Methionine:

Major methyl donor in many biochemical reactions, including synthesis of choline and epinephrine

Important in the inactivation of the neurotransmitters serotonin and the catecholamins

A methionine deficiency interferes with the growth process

Inositol:

Physiological role resembles choline

Present as phosphatidylinositol - a phospholipid of cell membranes and plasma lipoproteins

Vitamin B12:

Important in normal DNA replication

Deficiency results in irreversible damage to the nervous system, including progressive swelling of myelinated neurons, demyelination and cell death in the spinal column and cerebral cortex.

Thiamine:

Essential in two major enzymes in carbohydrate metabolism

Also has a unique role in the function of all excitable cell membranes

Riboflavin:

Functions directly as one of two major enzymes in carbohydrate metabolism

Pyridoxine:

Essential coenzyme in metabolic transformations of amino acids

Deficiency results in abnormalities of the skin, nervous system and erythopoiesis

Seizures due to deficiency may be due to the lowering of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)

Niacinamide:

Essential coenzyme in protein metabolism

Deficiency results is abnormalities of skin, nervous system and intestinal tract

Pantothenic Acid:

Coenzyme A us the physiologically active form of pantothenol

Essential in the metabolism of carbohydrates and fats

CHOLODIN also contains Selenium, Vitamin E and Zinc.



Last edited by PositiveDog; 05/23/13 02:10 PM.

Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
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