German Shepherd Home
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? #281723
05/05/13 11:52 PM
05/05/13 11:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
My vets have told me for a couple of years that Cain has arthritis in his spine. How do I know it is not DM or hip displaysa? Does it really matter? What can they give him that will help? I did watch the video on how to help a dog with DM and Cain is not that bad yet. He is very slow laying down and getting up. He has trouble with steps. We have built a ramp for him at our camper which we are at alot during the summer. He does drap his back feet a times. His back legs do cross at times. He is on Tramadol and Previcox now. I am considering getting him a wheel chair cart. Any suggestions on him.

Last edited by cainsmomma; 05/05/13 11:54 PM.

Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281731
05/06/13 01:59 AM
05/06/13 01:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I think it can be hard to distinguish. I have always judge by response to therapy, including drugs, supplements, various body work (acu and chiro).

If the arthritis gets bad enough, it can cause neuro issues. Some have used neurontin, though not all dogs can tolerate that.

It's so hard to watch them age hugging


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281737
05/06/13 04:11 AM
05/06/13 04:11 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,648
CA
C
Codmaster Offline
Pooh-Bah
Codmaster  Offline
Pooh-Bah
C

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,648
CA
How about an X-Ray taken and read by a competent Vet?

Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: Codmaster] #281738
05/06/13 04:14 AM
05/06/13 04:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Codmaster
How about an X-Ray taken and read by a competent Vet?

In senior dogs, you may have problems at the same time, and it becomes difficult, if not impossible to pinpoint exactly which disease process is causing which symptom. For example, Cain *does* have arthritis, but that doesn't rule out other conditions, unfortunately. And certainly xrays don't say much about the condition of the nervous system.

Wishing the best for Cain!

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 05/06/13 04:15 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281741
05/06/13 05:21 AM
05/06/13 05:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah
arycrest  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
That's true Lisa, BUT ... x-rays can also show other conditions like Cauda Equina which is treated with Pred and pain meds, vs HD which can be treated with supplements and pain meds, vs arthritis which is treated with various supplements, arthritis meds and pain meds, etc. IMHO x-rays for diagnostic purposes for the seniors is extremely important.

I guess I feel this way because I've had seniors who've had multiple problems before which made my house look like I was running a pharmacy (at one time, when Ringer, Honey & Kelly were seniors, the 3 of them were taking a grand total of 48 pills every day).

Of course DM can't be diagnosed without a necropsy, so all a vet can do is use the process of elimination to diagnose it ... there are Dr. Clemmons supplements you can get from a compounding pharmacy up in Gainesville that Marjorie Z. swears helps DM patients a lot.


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: arycrest] #281745
05/06/13 05:58 AM
05/06/13 05:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I hear you Gayle, and agree. I guess I was bugged by the assumption that Cain hadn't had xrays or that the vet isn't competent. Cain has had arthritis for some time, has gone through adequan shots, and I think even acupuncture? This is a progressive problem, and there really is an issue of knowing what is being caused by what. Even if there is HD, there is no way to definitely tell how much of the symptoms is coming from the back versus the hips. I actually think that acupuncturists and particularly chiropractors may have the best ability there though.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281756
05/06/13 11:44 AM
05/06/13 11:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
I'm giving another nod for acupuncture thumbup to help Cain's quality of life improve. It can help both with pain relief as well as increased function, so he can get some mobility back. It will take some time, as the effects are cumulative, but WOW.. amazing results can often be achieved. Wishing improvements for your dear Cain!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: Braverhund] #281769
05/06/13 02:02 PM
05/06/13 02:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
Cain did have xrays and that is when he found the arthritis in his spine. He gave him a series of steroid shots in that area. That seemed to help for many months.
Then he left the clinic and another vet came in that did the acupuncture. We tried that and I couldn't tell any improvement. Then she left the clinic. My main vet then did the adequan shots. I did not see any improvement in him with that as well. I live in a small town and we don't have any specialist here. I guess the closest place would be Nashville, TN. (2 hours away) Louisville, KY is about 3 hours away. He continues to take Tramadol and Previcox. He also takes a thyroid pill each day. He still gets around pretty well. Our back yard is very large and he still goes out and goes up and down the hill. He's alittle slow though. He saw a cat the other day, and thought he could catch it. He went after it alright....like a fast walk. lol I can hear his back toes dragging on the tile and hardwood. He's slow getting up and down. I will do what I can to keep him comfortable as long as I can. I am still thinking about getting him the walk in wheels. I just don't think he is that bad yet.


Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281775
05/06/13 03:29 PM
05/06/13 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
What oral supplements is he on?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281776
05/06/13 04:21 PM
05/06/13 04:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah
arycrest  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
Gosh, it seems like yesterday that Cain was a youngster!!!

I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion, most people will disagree with me, but IMHO if nothing is helping Cain, at some point in time I'd try him on Pred to see if it would help him. It's a nasty drug, it can have lots of serious side effects (not sure why, but some dogs/humans have more problems with side effects than others), but sometimes when it's the only drug that will give relief IMHO it's worth it.

I've had dogs on Pred ranging from 20mg a day for 5 years, down to 5mg every 2 to 4 days (one dog was on 80mg a day which was slowly decreased down to zero to kick start his immune system, this scared the snot out of me, but he lived another 10 years).

Just another possibility to consider!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281777
05/06/13 04:22 PM
05/06/13 04:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
Well other than his Tramadol and Previcox, he did take GCM pills I would get from the vet, but now I give him the Joint Max Triple Strength pills 2 per day. They have the same glucosamine, chondroitin & maganese that the others had, but alittle less expensive. I order those form Entirely Pets. I also give him those same kind in the treats. Plus he gets the Bonies Hip & Joint formula bones. That's about it. One of the other vets suggested I could give him a Tramdol pill in the am also. He usually gets just 1 at night. I did give him 1 pill one morning and that will be the last time. When I went home at lunch, he was wobbling everywhere. He doesn't act as if he is in pain.


Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281785
05/06/13 05:16 PM
05/06/13 05:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Do I remember something about steroids and panting and heart?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281788
05/06/13 05:40 PM
05/06/13 05:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
Yes, last summer he had been panting really bad and I took him to the vet and they ran blood work, chest xrays and EKG, etc. Everything looked fine...she thought it was the heat and his weight. She did give him a low dose of steriods for a few days. He hasn't panted like that since. We did have a really hot summer last year.


Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281794
05/06/13 06:17 PM
05/06/13 06:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,978
Alexandria, NH
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,978
Alexandria, NH
I'm with Gayle on the pred to see if it will help him. I used it on Rica for 5 years or more with her HD and she lived to almost 13 years old. It helped her for a long time along with the other Gluocosamine supplements I used. I think that after the initial loading we gave it to her every 3 days until the last winter before she died. Then I had to up it to every day.


Johanna

Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil), Roisin (doesn't have a nickname yet)

RIP Caleb, Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: Woodreb] #281809
05/06/13 09:41 PM
05/06/13 09:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
When you guys say pred, are you meaning predisone? Isn't that a steriod? I thought they were not good for them. Yep Gayle, Cain will be 13yrs.old in July. I have had him since he was 3yrs.old. Just the thought of him not being around, just breaks my heart and I cry. If exercise is good for him, then he gets enough of it following me around the house. But I'm sure the getting up and down probably isn't good. I'll tell him, "stay right there, I will be right back." Nope....he always gets up to follow. He doesn't seem to like to stand or sit for very long either. I guess laying down feels better to him. When I was at the vet the other day getting his thyroid pills, the receptionist asked me
how he was. And I said, oh not very well. She said that maybe Dr.Flanary needed to adjust his dosage or maybe a different combination. I said I don't know what else will help him. I would try anything for him.


Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281814
05/06/13 10:59 PM
05/06/13 10:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,978
Alexandria, NH
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,978
Alexandria, NH
Yes, pred = prednisone and it is a steroid. There are risks, just as there are risks with any drug. But it may be worth the risk if it will improve quality of life for Cain. Only you and your vet can answer that question.


Johanna

Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil), Roisin (doesn't have a nickname yet)

RIP Caleb, Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: Woodreb] #281816
05/06/13 11:18 PM
05/06/13 11:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 501
M
MSD Offline
Addict
MSD  Offline
Addict
M

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 501
Originally Posted By: cainsmomma
What can they give him that will help? Any suggestions on him.

cainsmomma— hi, I think I missed Cain’s diagnosis, but our friends male GSD has diagnosed HD and they use a K Laser. Initially he would go frequently and now he just gets a “touch-up” (not sure of the right terminology) when he overdoes it playing etc. His family is very happy with the results of the laser treatment for him. I’m not sure if that would be an option for your boy, but wanted to share what my friends told me. I’m smiling because I read that Cain is 13 smile

Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MSD] #281847
05/07/13 04:46 AM
05/07/13 04:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
When it comes down to quality of life, and if the issue is pred, some *low dose* pred could be the answer. While some dogs may tolerate this for a long time, there can be a trade off...

If I have a dog on meds, particularly long term, I would be giving liver support, with Country Life's Liver Support Factors as my favorite product. All of these drugs are hard on the liver.

Reading some of the HD threads, you'll see that many folks are giving multiple joint products, a different kinds will address different issues to some degree, and the amounts given are often higher than the recommended dosages. Maybe the addition of a multivitamin, like vetriscience's Canine Plus can add some extra support. Certainly if the acupuncture is still available, that I worth trying.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: MaxaLisa] #281887
05/07/13 04:21 PM
05/07/13 04:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
cainsmomma Offline OP
Addict
cainsmomma  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 421
Kentucky
Thanks everyone for your input on this. You guys are way more intelligent on this kind of dog stuff than me. I will talk to my vet about the prednisone.
Since Cain has so much trouble going up steps, my husband and a friend built him a ramp at our camper on the lake. That will be so much easier for him. Thanks again, Linda


Heidi - Border collie/Australian Shep mix
Cali - Lab,Hound, mix foster failure
At the brige waiting for their mom -
Jaxx - GSD
Tisha - GSD
Josh - GSD
Sammy - Shar-pei
Tyson - Boxer
Maggie - Minature Schnauzer 6/1998 - 1/2012
My Cain - WGSD 7/2000 - 6/2014
Re: Hip Dysplasia ? DM ? How do you know for sure? [Re: cainsmomma] #281900
05/07/13 08:33 PM
05/07/13 08:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah
arycrest  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
Originally Posted By: cainsmomma
When you guys say pred, are you meaning predisone? Isn't that a steriod? I thought they were not good for them. Yep Gayle, Cain will be 13yrs.old in July. I have had him since he was 3yrs.old. Just the thought of him not being around, just breaks my heart and I cry. If exercise is good for him, then he gets enough of it following me around the house. But I'm sure the getting up and down probably isn't good. I'll tell him, "stay right there, I will be right back." Nope....he always gets up to follow. He doesn't seem to like to stand or sit for very long either. I guess laying down feels better to him. When I was at the vet the other day getting his thyroid pills, the receptionist asked me
how he was. And I said, oh not very well. She said that maybe Dr.Flanary needed to adjust his dosage or maybe a different combination. I said I don't know what else will help him. I would try anything for him.
I'm not sure you'll remember me, if I'm not mistaken, we used to talk a lot years ago on AOL ... I had several screen names ... PCF ECHO ... LDRS PETS ECHO ... WGSDfrmFla ... plus few more ... you had a Pei too back then.

But to answer your question ... yeah, Pred is a steroid, a very dangerous drug which can have a lot of adverse side effects. It's a drug you don't give lightly and you give the lowest dose possible for as short of a time as possible.

But, sometimes it's necessary to make the difficult decision about using Pred, making the animal as comfortable as possible for as long as possible and taking the chance that the drug will probably shorten the animal's life.

Like I said in another message, I've always opted for quality of life versus quantity of life, just like I did recently for Slider. He was diagnosed with Cauda Equina Syndrome (CES), it will get progressively worse, it will kill him, but IMHO he's better off having a shorter life span taking Pred and Tramadol and being kept comfortable than he would be without the Pred and living longer (the amount of Pred and the frequency he takes it will have to be increased over time).

As I mentioned before, I've been lucky, Tex was not supposed to live to celebrate his 9th birthday so his vet and I decided to put him on Pred, make him comfortable, and to enjoy whatever time he had left ... he took 20mg of Pred a day (a hefty dose for a 60lb dog), and he shocked everyone and lived another 5 years.

When Ringer was three he got something wrong, within 6 months despite pain medication he could barely walk. It took six months, numerous tests to get the diagnosis of lupus mediated polyarthritis and by that time I was on the verge of having him put down because the pain was so horrific even with the strong pain medication. After the diagnosis, he had to take 80mg of Pred a day to shut down his immune system, then we slowly decreased the amount over a period of weeks until he took the last pill ... it was frightening, but it saved his life and gave him almost 10 extra years of life to enjoy (as a senior he got CES, and took Pred, the dose being increased as needed, until the day he died).

I've also had dogs with serious health issues who were worse off from taking Pred due to some serious side effects. Niki had osteosarcoma, and I had to make the awful decision to take him off the Pred because of the bad side effects and just use amputation of his leg and pain meds to control it (I had to have him put down 10 months after the diagnosis was made).

Yukon was diagnosed with polymyositis which slowly destroyed his muscle mass. He was put on Pred to slow the disease down ... his side effects were so bad I had to make the dreadful decision to take him off the Pred and let the disease take its course until it was time to put him down.

I'm not saying you should put Cain on Pred, I'm only trying to say you should weigh the pros and cons of doing it, making the decision of what's in his best interest (which I know you've always done that anyway).

GOOD LUCK AND HUGS TO CAIN!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
Do dogs appreciate aesthetics?
by jarn. 11/13/22 11:41 PM
eh
by middleofnowhere. 11/06/22 02:07 AM
Happy 11th Birthday, Ciara Bella
by Woodreb. 10/30/22 01:48 AM
Welcome Home, Roisin
by Woodreb. 09/27/22 08:43 PM
Caleb Moose - Run Free
by Woodreb. 05/14/22 01:36 AM
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
Holiday cards
by Shilohsmom. 11/26/22 05:28 PM
Thanksgiving plans?
by Shilohsmom. 11/23/22 12:31 AM
Mom and bad bread
by jarn. 11/15/22 06:57 PM
Rosa update
by middleofnowhere. 11/05/22 08:01 PM
Rosa's Hello old Friends, continued part 2
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 01/13/15 03:49 PM
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Zisso), 10 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Members
GSDman, GSDluvah, Bonwno, Mongoski, Lawz67
3048 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics18,795
Posts293,332
Members3,048
Most Online991
Jan 15th, 2020
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1