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UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? #278195
04/01/13 07:56 PM
04/01/13 07:56 PM
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Krissy Offline OP
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I have a smaller shih-poo (Shiztsu/Poodle Mix) and she's had an issue where she has had constant UTI's. She's on the 3rd on in a year and it might be more if I wasn't so lax about getting back to the vet to tell them that about a week or 2 after the end of the antibiotics, she's back to peeing blood again.

Here's the thing: We went to the dog park on Saturday and all of a sudden there was a lot of blood in her "area". So, I took a closer look and there was this big bump on her, which it did go away, so the thought is that it was a blood clot.

We went to the vet and they couldnt do a culture, so they said to come back in a month, after a 2 week trial, and we'll see what results come up.

I noticed that the antibiotics were actually the same ones she tried last year (and failed). So I called just to double check whether it will matter and the vet said that since she started it, to keep her on it. While on the phone, I expressed the fact that I guess I'm a little freaked out and concerned about the clot. So, she said if I wanted an ultasound, they could do it, but they didn't suggest it because it's costly (over $400!!!).

Have any of you had these issues with your pet or have any suggestions? I know I should've been on top of the UTI's a long time ago (she's 4 and she's had A LOT), but I am trying to take care of it now and I have repeatedly gone to the vet to check them out. The old vet just didn't really have any suggestions or see it as a big deal, whereas this vet said recurring UTI's are bad and they want to check into it...

Sorry if this is in the wrong section as well.... she's not a GSD, so I wasn't sure where to put the post.

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278197
04/01/13 08:04 PM
04/01/13 08:04 PM
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I moved this to Health for you, it's okay that she's not a GSD. LOL, better be, since I've been posting about Jazz here.

I have been dealing with urinary problems with my small dog too. There's a thread around here about it. Hers is different, no blood, but constant inflammation and white blood cells in the urine, and this may perhaps be a structural defect, we will see.

Constant uti's not only cause pain and discomfort, they can damage the kidneys and cause early death frown , so definitely something you want to get a handle on.

I am not sure why they couldn't do a culture? Are they doing a urinalysis or just putting her back on the antibiotics? There could be bladder stones, crystals, etc., so diagnostics are definitely needed. Depending on what they see in the urinalysis, often they will xray first, but, yes, ultrasound then is the next step (I think Jazz's was $435, but there are some clinics that are less than others).

If the same antibiotic is being used, and it's not helping or eradicating it, that's a huge problem. Continuing it just because you started it doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes they don't prescribe it for long enough - often a 10 or 14 course is not sufficient. My vet said give until there are no symptoms, and then a week longer.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: MaxaLisa] #278199
04/01/13 08:12 PM
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Krissy Offline OP
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They wanted to do a culture, but her bladder was empty. .. they did a urinalysis and saw blood in her urine, which is why the vet agreed with me that it was most likely a blood clot.

They did an xray and found nothing. They did an xray last time too (you can see this is adding up... which is why it usually stops after a visit or 2..).

Last time they did see crystals, but this time she said there were none in the small sample she got.

I just don't see what 2 weeks of antibiotics (again) and waiting 2 weeks will tell us... I don't know much of anything about it, but if there's going to be a difference (that doesn't point to an ultrasound) and she'll magically get better with a re-test in a month, then sure.. but do you know what the point is? If they do a culture in a month, what could possibly be the difference? We already know it won't kill the problem.. because it hasn't before.

I guess I'm just really frustrated and confused! I just don't know what to do anymore! headbang

Oh and thanks for moving the post!!! I definitely didn't have a clue!

Last edited by Krissy; 04/01/13 08:13 PM. Reason: To say thank you :)
Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: MaxaLisa] #278200
04/01/13 08:12 PM
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Alos not sure why they couldn't do a culture. Sometimes it's important to know what is causing the infection because one antibiotic may be better at treating the infection than others.

We also have a thread or two around here about a female having a recessed vulva and that it may be the cause of recurring UTIs. It's something that can correct itself if you let her have a season or two, but if the problem is there and she was spayed early it may require surgery to correct.

Hope you can get to the bottom of this soon.


Johanna

Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Caleb, Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Woodreb] #278203
04/01/13 08:16 PM
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She is spayed... and we spayed her late, which was at the end of when they are allowed to do it without extensive testing. I believe it was at 2 or 3 years of age. There was just too much blood and we weighed our options and finally made a decision. It definitely was not an easy decision to make. I've never even had the option before her since my dogs were all rescues and came spayed or neutered.

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278207
04/01/13 08:35 PM
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Oh... and.. she pees clear, then it turns bloody towards the end. So when I looked that up, it mentioned that it's most likely a bladder issue. I'm not sure if that's effected by the recessed vulva, which she does have. Thank you for pointing that out, Johanna!

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278221
04/01/13 09:22 PM
04/01/13 09:22 PM
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If they can't do a culture RIGHT THEN, they simply reappoint her until a time when she can. First appointment of the day works perfectly for that.

Before I do an ultrasound (and I personally have no issues with ultrasounds), I would want to be sure that I've been treating the UTI properly. If I'm tossing an antibiotic (say, Clavamox) at a bacteria that is resistant to Clavamox, it's rather like trying to clean up oil with cold water. You can do it for days, weeks and months, and it won't do a bit of good.

My girl had a UTI. We put her on Clavamox for 2 weeks. Ran the follow-up. She still had bacteria, which we cultured. It is, naturally, not sensitive to Clavamox (which, of course, is not inexpensive). So we just blasted it with a month of bactrim, which it IS senstive to. I'm bringing her in for her follow-up this week. But based on how spunky she seems to feel now, I'm guessing that it's gone now.


I normally run a Culture and Sensitivity the first time out, but my girl hasn't had a UTI in years, so I thought a broad-spectrum like Clavamox would hit it. That just shows that I really should stick to my normal routines that I've developed over the years with good reason.

If your girl keeps getting UTIs and you have never done a C&S (it's not clear from your post if you have), it's very possible that it's the SAME bacteria infection and you just keep pushing the symptoms into a low simmer, but then they rage back even stronger next time.

In your shoes, I would do a culture and sensitivity. I would treat aggressively with *appropriate* antibiotics for at least 20 days (I prefer at least 30 days for an extended UTI, but that's for you and your vet to discuss). Then follow up with another Culture (not just a UA, which can miss very low levels of bacteria). If that's clean, then return in 2-3 weeks for a UA. If that's clean, then a UA in 3 months. If that's clean, then a UA in yet another 3 months.

Once your girl has been clear of UTIs for over 6 months, you can probably rest comfortably that this has cleared up.

(I would also start her on cranberry capsules. I buy mine at Costco and give one to my 20 lb girl once a day. )

If her UTI doesn't clear up or keeps returning, then an ultrasound is indicated.

But at this point, I'm not sure what you're actually dealing with. I'm not sure the particular bacteria in her UTIs have been directly dealt with. If not, an ultrasound doesn't show bacteria, much less the type of bacteria it is. We KNOW there is bacteria in there. Let's address the bacteria. Let's start there.

And yes, we need to get going on this. Not only do UTIs have long-term effects, but dogs who suffer UTIs don't feel well. (That's how I know my dogs have them. They just act tired and "ugh." When the vet asks me if I see the traditional symptoms of frequent urination or blood, my response is no, because I see them feeling funky and tired long before the infex gets that advanced.). I'm certain that your dog would feel better, more energetic and quite likely, not be in pain, if you stayed on top of this.

I am NOT blaming you.
It sounds like your vet doesn't take them seriously, and we learn about veterinary medicine from our vets. Everything I know about veterinary medicine, I've learned from my vets. I would suggest that if your vet isn't taking your girl's UTIs seriously, is simply saying "we can't get a culture because her bladder was empty...end of story," and such, you may want to seriously consider finding a new vet.

You and your little girl deserve better. hugging

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: 3K9Mom] #278224
04/01/13 09:26 PM
04/01/13 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
...They just act tired and "ugh." When the vet asks me if I see the traditional symptoms of frequent urination or blood, my response is no, because I see them feeling funky and tired long before the infex gets that advanced.

This is exactly what happens with Jazz.

Quote:
In your shoes, I would do a culture and sensitivity. I would treat aggressively with *appropriate* antibiotics for at least 20 days (I prefer at least 30 days for an extended UTI, but that's for you and your vet to discuss). Then follow up with another Culture (not just a UA, which can miss very low levels of bacteria). If that's clean, then return in 2-3 weeks for a UA. If that's clean, then a UA in 3 months. If that's clean, then a UA in yet another 3 months.

Yep, agree.

Quote:
I would suggest that if your vet isn't taking your girl's UTIs seriously, is simply saying "we can't get a culture because her bladder was empty...end of story," and such, you may want to seriously consider finding a new vet.

Yep again.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: MaxaLisa] #278312
04/02/13 03:26 PM
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I agree. Fluffy does seem to be feeling better, so I'll keep her on the medication for now and go back in a month to see if they find anything on the culture (since this time there were no crystals), but I think I'll switch to the vet I had previously at the same hospital. She had mentioned that a recessed vulva could be possible, or that something else could be going on. As harsh as it is, I definitely trusted her more. They are both great vets, considering they both are new to this dog, but the previos vet gave me clear suggestions that don't lead to scary thoughts (like cancer or tumor!). Until about 6 months ago, they weren't even seeing her. We switched her so she would get cared for better and due to the fact that the same hospital saved my cats life after a different hospital almost killed him, I just really do trust them overall.

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278320
04/02/13 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Krissy
She is spayed... and we spayed her late, which was at the end of when they are allowed to do it without extensive testing. I believe it was at 2 or 3 years of age.

What kind of testing would this be, just curious?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: 3K9Mom] #278352
04/02/13 06:43 PM
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Great posts 3K9 and Lisa, very informative and to the point. Krissy, I hope you get your little one back on track soon!


Natalie

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Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Natalie559] #278365
04/02/13 07:59 PM
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It was a full workup to make sure that she didn't have any problems that would interfere with the neutering. I'm not sure exactly what they meant, but I took it as just a deadline of either doing it now or not at all.

...since then, I have switched away from that vet. I wasn't very fond of them.

Last edited by Krissy; 04/02/13 08:00 PM.
Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278398
04/03/13 12:59 AM
04/03/13 12:59 AM
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Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Under any circumstances, you would want some pre-surgery bloodwork, and the dog in good health, but there really isn't a deadline, I think your vet was not clear with you. Glad you changed from them!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: MaxaLisa] #278510
04/03/13 05:23 PM
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I usually run urine before a surgery too Lisa, to ensure the kidneys can handle all the anesthesia and surgery itself. If renal values are off (in the UA or bloodwork), we can give extra fluids support before and during surgery. (Obviously, if we're dealing with a girl like yours, there's no need, because she has renal issues, so I'm certain that support is automatic).

That may be all that the vet did.

Maybe he also ran a pregnancy test and/or ultrasound if there were some thought that she might be pregnant? That would be reasonable, perhaps? I don't know the details here (and my girls have never been spayed "late" so I'm not quite sure what that entails).


They may not have done a lot that was funky. But one of the primary jobs of a veterinarian is to communicate to the owner. AND they need to be sure that even a stressed owner is giving informed consent.

This vet failed that. He may have been very conscientious (and price conscious too. The two often dont go together). But we just don't know.

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: 3K9Mom] #278546
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Hmnn... well, the vet might not be my favorite at the moment, but Fluffy is looking better.. she was hoping around and she's got a full stream going for the few seconds. I just hope this stays and that when I see the vet at the end of the month, that she'll give me a more clear answer about possible issues and how to fix them so Fluffy doesn't have to deal with this anymore. The poor little girl is only 5!.. and by far the best dog I've had (besides Dex now...)

Re: UTI's, Blood Clots, and .. ultrasound? maybe? [Re: Krissy] #278631
04/04/13 07:15 AM
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Very glad to hear that she is doing better!

You might want to think about adding ome sort of urine support as the antibiotics are finishing up. Cranberry, mannose, etc. There was a popular product folks used to use (tinkle berry or something like that), and others on the forum have used the homeopathic UTI Free (?) with success. I probably should pick ome of that up for Jazz.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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