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DM question? #272535
02/23/13 04:49 PM
02/23/13 04:49 PM
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mike Offline OP
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mike  Offline OP
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sire is DM free but the dam has a gene carrier of DM.

Is this really a red flag?

Re: DM question? [Re: mike] #272537
02/23/13 05:25 PM
02/23/13 05:25 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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There are some questions regarding the results of those tests.

Not understanding myself the genetics, I can't actually answer if it requires two DM positive dogs to, in theory, yield a DM dog.

Wish marjorie were around. Mary Jane or someone else may have more insight...


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: DM question? [Re: MaxaLisa] #272550
02/23/13 07:55 PM
02/23/13 07:55 PM
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shepnterrier Offline
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http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/testDM.htm
"Summary: Dogs that test A/G or G/G are very unlikely to develop DM. Dogs that test A/A are likely to develop clinical signs of DM at some point as they age."
But as Lisa, said, there are questions about the test.
There is a stickie with information on DM in the Health section.


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: DM question? [Re: shepnterrier] #272553
02/23/13 08:23 PM
02/23/13 08:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Thanks for looking that up Sarah.

Here is the sticky info: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...tions#Post48612


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: DM question? [Re: MaxaLisa] #272557
02/23/13 09:43 PM
02/23/13 09:43 PM
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Mary Jane Offline
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OK, the genetics are simple: progeny of clear X carrier will not have DM defined by this test-without a spontaneous mutation in the progeny. The concern mentioned is that the test scores a particular degenerative disease that some people question is the disease afflicting GSD.

So your dog almost certainly will not have the disease caused by changes in (I know you want to know this) superoxide dismutase. Whether another potential degenerative myelopathy of GSD will show up is still a concern for some people.

If it makes any difference to you, I tested both our dogs-mostly craving some assurance.

Mary Jane

Re: DM question? [Re: shepnterrier] #272576
02/24/13 01:33 AM
02/24/13 01:33 AM
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mike Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: shepnterrier
http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/testDM.htm
"Summary: Dogs that test A/G or G/G are very unlikely to develop DM. Dogs that test A/A are likely to develop clinical signs of DM at some point as they age."
But as Lisa, said, there are questions about the test.
There is a stickie with information on DM in the Health section.


wheeew, big relief!

thanks for looking that up!

Re: DM question? [Re: mike] #272727
02/25/13 01:46 PM
02/25/13 01:46 PM
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shepnterrier Offline
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But keep in mind that this is the web page by the people who developed the test. The test may or may not be relevant to the version of DM that occurs in GSDs, as Mary Jane explained (thank you, MJ!). The tests haven't been around long enough to get the kind of data over several generations that would be more conclusive.


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: DM question? [Re: shepnterrier] #272742
02/25/13 03:08 PM
02/25/13 03:08 PM
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Liesje Offline
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It seems like people are treating DM as a simple recessive but there is evidence to prove it may not be.

If you don't plan to BREED your dog, then a normal/carrier should be fine, even if the puppy comes out that way. If you want to know for sure, test the puppy before you buy it.

Re: DM question? [Re: Liesje] #272754
02/25/13 04:51 PM
02/25/13 04:51 PM
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marjorie Offline
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IT is certainly NOT that simple, as the test itself is flawed in relation to the DM of the GSD. I am not going to go into the whole thing again. My reasons were posted a while ago on this forum and I spelled out, in great detail, why I felt the way I did. I have much knowledge about DM, founded the DM Support Group in 1997 and have been working with Dr Clemmons since 1997, in regards to DM. Perhaps the admin could unarchive the old thread.

We are talking different disease, altogether, in our breed. Proof is in the older thread and the proof is in the proverbial pudding! Subsequent to that thread, GSDS that have tested clear on the OFA DM DNA Test have been found to have DM upon necropsy, by DR COATES, HERSELF, as have dogs that tested carrier, who are not supposed to develop DM. Now DR Coates is no longer doing free necropsies and there is still not one word on her site about these dogs. Pups from clear sire and dam have tested carrier and at risk, when the OFA give them an automatic pass! The test is a crock for GSDS and maybe even other breeds. It is, quite frankly, absurd to believe, even for one nano second, the claims being made about the validity of this test when not even ONE generation has been followed and already DR Coates has been proved wrong and the test fallible. Note- DR Coates did not follow up on these dogs- I DID! I had the owners report to the OFA...I told the OFA I was going to form a class acton lawsuit if they didnt change the wording on ther site, which of course they had to do, as fraudulent representation is a crime.


www.gsdbbr.org (German Shepherd Breed Betterment Registry)
a health registry for German Shepherds --> Be proactive!
www.mzjf.com (Home of the DM Support Group)
Re: DM question? [Re: marjorie] #272761
02/25/13 05:13 PM
02/25/13 05:13 PM
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Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
Barb E Offline
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Dante - March 8, 2004 - May 06, 2017
Kaos von Wolfstraum - Oct 31, 2011

My Blog: https://barbrambling.wordpress.com/
Re: DM question? [Re: marjorie] #272762
02/25/13 05:14 PM
02/25/13 05:14 PM
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marjorie Offline
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Bottom Line: I, personanlly, would not hesitate to purchase a dog that tested at risk on the OFA DM Dna Test, as I feel the test has zero validity. I would not even waste one penny on the test. GSDS do not get ALS which is what Dr Coates says her DM tests for! ALS is not a sensory disease which GSDM, most certainly is!


www.gsdbbr.org (German Shepherd Breed Betterment Registry)
a health registry for German Shepherds --> Be proactive!
www.mzjf.com (Home of the DM Support Group)
Re: DM question? [Re: Barb E] #272769
02/25/13 06:19 PM
02/25/13 06:19 PM
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marjorie Offline
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Thanks, Barb. I have just been beaten down so badly that I just cannot go through this again. I am still not even partly over the loss of Missie T, and it is almost one year. I still havent been able to bring myself to write her memorial. Once can bring a horse to water, but they cannot make them drink. I guess people are just going to have to learn the hard way that the emperor is buck naked...When the house of cards begin to fall, I guess maybe that will be a wake-up call frown I am not who I once was, anymore... I once thought one person could make a difference- I now know better...


www.gsdbbr.org (German Shepherd Breed Betterment Registry)
a health registry for German Shepherds --> Be proactive!
www.mzjf.com (Home of the DM Support Group)
Re: DM question? [Re: marjorie] #272772
02/25/13 06:48 PM
02/25/13 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
Barb E Offline
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You're welcome Marjorie

It is good to see you by the way, I was thinking of you this weekend as I sat down with "Things I have learned from my dog" for another lovely "stroll".

Actually you do make a difference - though I'm sure you wish it were bigger - just educating one person on DM is a difference, especially when you consider who that person talks to and on down the line.

There is probably not a single person on the planet that has been touched by DM more than you have which gives you a different passion in this fight than others have.

I think sometimes with these diseases people want to grasp at any possibility that will help them escape the heart break - I know it's that way with my own RA - and so some will grasp tightly onto anything that might be the answer without doing some research or going into it with a mindset of there are sometimes just no perfect answer.

hugging


Dante - March 8, 2004 - May 06, 2017
Kaos von Wolfstraum - Oct 31, 2011

My Blog: https://barbrambling.wordpress.com/
Re: DM question? [Re: Barb E] #272775
02/25/13 06:54 PM
02/25/13 06:54 PM
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marjorie Offline
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No, there is no answer. I think right now I am battling a kind of PTSD that goes along with fighting DM for 7 1/2 years. I still have some books left- I just might curl up with one myself..

Thanks for the hug- I could use it. Between DM and rescue work and all the infighting, it takes a toll frown


www.gsdbbr.org (German Shepherd Breed Betterment Registry)
a health registry for German Shepherds --> Be proactive!
www.mzjf.com (Home of the DM Support Group)
Re: DM question? [Re: marjorie] #273011
02/27/13 03:07 PM
02/27/13 03:07 PM
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Posts: 11,815
Los Lunas, NM
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
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Marjorie, thank you for the explanation.

The OP asked this question on dotcom also and I gave him bad info based on past knowledge. You are the one person I thought to ask that question to.

I am sorry you are still having bad days with this. I surely appreciate your work and you just eduacted me so that was your one person for the day.

Thank you!

hugging


Kathy

PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU, RATN 4/4/12
Jeli, (Pembroke Welsh corgi) CGC, RATI 5/13/19

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