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Franken-Feeding Dogs? #270566
02/06/13 08:16 PM
02/06/13 08:16 PM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline OP
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So after doing the math, and considering their preferences, I am feeding my cats some different things to avoid spending ridiculous amounts on canned food. They get a Wild Kitty w/meat mix, raw nuggets from Primal (which I would do 100% of but they don't like them to that extent), their little bit of dry, and some canned here and there. They are liking the mix.

I was thinking of doing the same with the dogs. Like a kibble meal in the am, a cooked meal (don't judge me! wink ) at night, and then a couple times a week, a raw bone either with their PM meal or in place of. I have no idea.

Bella can't have chicken or high fat. I would probably use turkey a lot in their cooked meal. I have lowered the amount of protein the dogs are getting in their processed kibble and have seen some good blood work results - I have 6 dogs 7 and older. Yikes. I am not so concerned with real protein but need to watch it. I am concerned with the fat in bones.

My food guy gave me a bag of cow knees yesterday. He gave one to Nico in the store and said "Look, a cure for his ADD!" smile.

I am considering the bones because of the dental issues. I get sick watching and thinking of the goo, spit, germs, grossness that will be where they eat. I am really squeamish.

So...
- Can such a crazy diet be done - in general?
- Is the fat a concern?
- What kind of bones could be used?
- Would they be in addition to or in place of a meal? Because my food guy said don't feed Nico his regular supper, just let him finish his knee. sick He is a very raw kind of raw feeder. He was gleeful that Nico was eating that bone, knowing how weird I am about it.

Thanks for any information/insight.

Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #270571
02/06/13 08:28 PM
02/06/13 08:28 PM
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I honestly do not believe that kibble provides balanced nutrition so I think feeding some homemade and some raw is a good thing. whistling I did something like that for many years of Chama's and Basu's lives. They got some kibble, some cooked and some raw.

A couple of ideas for you (even though you didn't ask!) on cutting costs. You can get your raw through a buying co-op. In addition to huge chunks o' meat, they also sell Bravo, etc. Rafi's Bravo costs $18 for 10 pounds. The cats are now getting something called "Bravo Balance" and it is $11 for a 5 pound chub. They like it much better than the Primal and it lasts a lot longer--it is costing me about $33 now to feed them raw for a month--that's total, for both cats. Primal was costing me over $60/month. I buy my stuff from a locally owned store but I have a friend who gets hers through a buying co-op and the prices are comparable, even a little cheaper. The buying co-op also offers all kinds of proteins.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: BowWowMeow] #270576
02/06/13 08:42 PM
02/06/13 08:42 PM
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I think adding fresh ingredients (cooked or raw) to kibble is a wonderful thing to do.

Mary Strauss has some great info on her website: http://dogaware.com/diet/freshfoods.html

I belong to a great buying group and average about $1# to feed raw. You might want to look into that, even if you plan on cooking. I get things like turkey hearts ($.75#), beef hearts ($1#), etc that are boneless and could be cooked.

I'll warn you though...some of that stuff STINKS when you cook it. I did beef muscle meat and turkey hearts in the crock pot once when Grace had surgery. I nearly died from the smell!


Melissa
Vigo von der Gauss (Vigo) CGC, CGC-A
Vendetta vom haus Huro (Fawkes)
Akira z Khaos (Kira) CGC, CGC-A
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Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Grakira] #270587
02/06/13 09:59 PM
02/06/13 09:59 PM
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I do kibble/home cooked. Don calculated calorie content of the home cooked part (our eggs scrambled and boiled chicken, weighed out) to determine how much each dog should get.

If Bella can't have chicken, can she have eggs? If you look at the nutritional analysis of eggs versus chicken breast, the eggs win big time. You can offset the cost of meat with the eggs.

I look for discounts in the meat section. Sometimes you can find stuff that is getting ready to expire and it is marked down. Also check the store flyers, a lot of them are online so you can scope out deals every week. And remember the holidays, Thanksgiving will get you big time turkey sales.

Unfortunately from my experience, chicken is really the cheapest option. Turkey is surprisingly pricey when it isn't November.


Leah
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Good_Karma] #270633
02/07/13 01:25 PM
02/07/13 01:25 PM
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Not much to add, I've done a variety of raw/kibble and cooked food for mine over the years. Ground turkey you can get in tubes, I found it when we first moved up here and was sourcing our own meat. It wasn't bad. I can't believe I just admitted to eating meat in a tube.


Patti loved by Ozzy (proud to be a Heinz 57) and Dolly (weighs more than most people, St. Bernard)...
Sandi's waiting at the Bridge
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: ozzyandsandi] #270637
02/07/13 02:02 PM
02/07/13 02:02 PM
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I can understand not doing the whole raw diet thing, or the all-homecooked, too, as it's a lot of work with so many dogs to feed.

Kibble alone, as Ruth mentions, isn't complete or balanced nutrition, as it's been cooked & processed into a state that's not especially bioavailable. (Think: eating a diet yourself of Total brand cereal 2x/day for life, vs. eating salads, fish, fruit, eggs, etc.) Nature's Variety Instinct kibble, Taste of The Wild kibble, Wellness CORE kibble, there are some good grain-free kibbles out there as you already know. In the end though, kibble is basicly meat-flavored croutons sprayed with vitamins. So, adding any raw or homecooked really will help! cheers thumbup

You can always check out CostCo or BJs or Sam'sClub for ground turkey, make some raw meatballs, and freeze 'em. Toss one in with kibble dinner now and again. Liver is cheap, too, and you can cut it into pieces the size of your thumbnail, then freeze them. Toss a piece each day into the kibble. That won't be too much, and it will provide a huge amount of nutrition with little fuss.

Bones: Unless a dog is eating a raw diet, avoid those knuckle bones. They break down too easily, and can cause either constipation/impaction or diarrhea in a kibble-fed dog. Instead, score some affordable marrow bones to feed as super-teeth-cleaning treats/pacifiers! peacesign The grocery store butcher can do this pretty cheaply. A dog Bella's size would do well with marrow bone the length of your hand, about. This will be safe for them, plus, it's long enough for them to move it about and hold it with their paws in an upright position. FUN!! laugh Marrow bones are safe. I let Grimm have one for an hour each afternoon or evening while I'm nearby on the computer. I wouldn't leave a dog alone with one for hours and go out shopping. Good place to give them marrowbones are: On the porch/deck, in their crates, on the kitchen floor, in the yard, anyplace indoors or out withOUT carpeting. grin In a stable pack, if the dogs are loose with their marrow bones, expect to see some games of "musical marrow bones." The dogs will switch bones now and again, but everyone will end up having a bone, and they get into a deep, meditative state while gnawing. peacesign Ohhhmmm... ohhhhmmm... peacesign Guess it just fulfills their primal gnawing urges right, and lets them release tension, and adds interest-- like a really intriguing page-turner of a novel!

Raw: Go for it! Just give it whenever you can. Don't worry if it isn't every meal or every day. ANY will be an improvement! Think of this: You'll be adding live, active enzymes that help them absorb their nutrients, enzymes that help clean teeth, good bacteria for happy gut flora, and the most nutrient-dense item of all, organ meat, in small, sensible amounts. With a pack of many dogs, scoring whatever is easiest and cheapest for you is the goal, as then they'll get raw more often. So, if a pre-made brand suits you, go with finding the cheapest source.

Jean, you are doing an amazing job with your rescued pack. I'm impressed that you always strive to feed the best! Kudos to you and the pack! goodjob

PS-- Grimm can't eat chicken when it's in kibble, but he can eat chicken raw. I have no idea why. Others have mentioned this sort of thing, too. thinking

PPS-- Ruth had a really neat homecooked recipe for Chama, and it had quinoa in it, among other goodies. You might pump her for info. grin


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Braverhund] #270666
02/07/13 06:05 PM
02/07/13 06:05 PM
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ozzyandsandi Offline
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Jean the lady we adopted Dolly from - she is a GSD breeder, for the rescues, part of their operation is devoted to space for abandoned and orphan animals - they were the dog catchers for the area at one point and folks still call them - anyways, she would with the rescues a couple times a week throw in some RAW, now she wasn't feeding them good kibble because - hello, they have quite a few dogs to feed and most of the rescues were fed what was donated - typical shelter, anyways her GSD's were fed RAW, so she would supplement the rescues with it and despite the fact there was a grooming part of the kennel, the dogs looked great and were all very healthy. She even free-ranged chickens just outside the kennels.

As an aside, I was googling her name and found a review of her on "the other board", she's on PD, anyways it was a review by someone who everyone loves there and it was a poor review - yet, they had never met her or been to the kennel, didn't know her or her husband's name, but gave a kennel review and review of the dogs and breeding program. I'm starting to think talking to an animal communicator is a better idea than these darn boards wink. At least where egos and reputations interfere.


Patti loved by Ozzy (proud to be a Heinz 57) and Dolly (weighs more than most people, St. Bernard)...
Sandi's waiting at the Bridge
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #270669
02/07/13 06:16 PM
02/07/13 06:16 PM
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Mary Jane Online content
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I don't want to interrupt all great advice that experienced people provide. However..

Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
.... I am concerned with the fat in bones.
.....


That was a problem for Mars. He gets a marrow bone 2-3x a week and sometimes had loose stool the day after a big bone. I have started removing some of the fat/marrow and that takes care of it for him.

Wow, imagine the hubris of making a suggestion to Jean blush

MJ

Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Mary Jane] #270713
02/08/13 05:23 AM
02/08/13 05:23 AM
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Marrow is very rich but not all meaty bones have marrow or are fatty either it is a look and learn kind of thing! grin


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Qyn] #270725
02/08/13 12:26 PM
02/08/13 12:26 PM
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Yes, you can scoop or carve out much of the marrow. The flavor residue will still be there, and the dogs will be entranced and gnawing contentedly! smile


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
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Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Braverhund] #270734
02/08/13 01:35 PM
02/08/13 01:35 PM
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The diets for the dogs have always been eclectic here, and so far everybody has been well and lived long lives, knock on wood, loudly. Kibble, raw meat, sauteed veggies, noodles/rice/bread. I learned about RMB here. and have included that. Thank you!

I heard one is not supposed to feed kibble and raw due to different rates of digestion, and the raw staying too long in the GI if ingested with kibble. My dogs never had any trouble with it though. This reminded me of the 'trophology' approach to human diets ('Trennkost' in German, meaning 'separated foods') http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_combining that many people believe in, at least it's popular in Germany. One is not supposed to eat protein-rich and carb-rich foods in one meal. I've always combined these to no ill effect.

'Treats' I found the biggest sink for money, I avoid them. For training rewards, I either make my own, use kibble, get end pieces of deli meats for less than a buck/lb, cut up the Red Barn rolls, or the new fresh rolls (no additives) they have at PetCo Unleashed. Happy eclecticism again.

Jean, I looked up the 'Wild Kitty Mix', will try that, TY! Anything less costly and reasonably good...

Regarding sick it's so funny how we differ. My stomach turns from the smells of all cooked or in any way heated meat (uck, already thinking of it!) while I have no trouble with anything raw incl. green tripe. It stinks, I open the window, they eat it quickly, done.

To avoid arguments, and for ease of cleaning, the dogs get their bones in their crates. Yep, bones bring about major arguments here.

I feed much raw chicken, usually buy at 99 cents/lb. Quarters, drumsticks, backs. Chip often gets half a chicken neck (I use a cleaver to split, just one quick chop) with beef heart (I sometimes get beef heart that still has some fat on it and is a day older for 79 cents) and veggies. Another meal might be kibble with cottage cheese.

Ok, now off to get gas before the storm hits this afternoon, run the dogs, and bunker in for a long weekend of work...


Sarah
Chip vom Dog Pound, border terrior, Director of Rodent Control, CGC
Elly von Rescue, GSD, CGC, HI(C)
Captain Jack, Mama Blue, Little Orca, Bübchen, Tux, Cherub (pocket lions)

Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: shepnterrier] #270741
02/08/13 02:46 PM
02/08/13 02:46 PM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline OP
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Wow this is such great information! How great is everyone here? SO great.

At this time, lowering cost is a good thing for sure. And that isn't just for the food, but the $500 and worry of a dental. I know I was vehemently opposed in Pat's thread, but then Anna has plaque. And Anna has a heart condition. Cleared for a dental by cardiology, but still too nervous to try it, and also know how much that plaque can make heart things worse. So, Anna brings me to something new again!

It is going to take me a while to get through and respond/ask questions and I may not be able to get everything. I am putting * by questions.

Leah - I would like to be the first partial brain transplant with Don's math brain as my donor. Please advise.

*Eggs are the perfect food right? You add chicken to the eggs? So I could add something like cooked beef/turkey. I was thinking how much I like to make omelets but don't like eggs so much myself. wink Do you feed the shells? See that reminds me of something that I don't want to get into is that whole calcium thing. But if I am feeding bone...I should be okay.

Tube meat! I have that! Ha! Aldi's sells frozen, ground turkey for less than $1.50/#. And it is lower fat than the ground turkey that is in the packages at the stores. I mix it with sweet potatoes, frozen berries or apples, green beans, a bit of a grain in the crock pot. It stinks.

*How do I know portion of something like that stew? Same as their kibble, if they get a C they get a C?

Bella does not do well with any chicken - I of course have never given her raw, but cooked even gives her the itchies, bities, and puffy eyes. Ava too, to a lesser extent. I also have a thing about raw chicken so I think I have always been secretly relived that they don't seem to do well on it.

The fat is also a Bella thing - she seems sensitive to fat. I think scooping could work. Mary Jane grin you are a silly! smile I am clueless here! I am thinking of having some blood work done on Bella for the fats - she has a B deficiency and gets a monthly shot, so it is possible she could be a pancreas dog either in other ways I guess too (no idea).

I am pretty sure bones would make these guys go nuts too - Nico has had the ball of the knee in his bed - and everyone circles his empty bed trying to figure out how to get it.

*Now - that knee ball - is that a choking hazard kind of thing that I should just toss out?

*Also - bone wise - are there types of beef bones that dogs should not have at all? The ones I got were knees.

*Does anyone do lamb bones/meat? My dogs do not do well on lamb kibble but don't know if that whole lanolin thing (which I guess is the issue?) would translate cooked or raw.

*Beefalo bones?

I think it is possible I may be able to get some free bones from an organic beef farm. I am really hoping! And some of the gross stuff too MAYBE - I cooked beef heart once and swore never again!!! It was disgusting. And Mariele barked at the smell of liver cooking!

My dirty secret re. treats is that I give my dogs cheap, dry biscuits. I used to only feed wellness or other treats but... smile Or animal crackers. Or I make them. Because yeah, they are crazy expensive!

*So how would this work?
Breakfast
- kibble 7 days a week - that's what I want to do
Supper
- cooked meal
- bone
For that - I was thinking 5 days of cooked, 2 days of bones as the meal? Because my food guy made it seem like a RMB IS a meal. I kept snorting at him, but he kept saying Nico is having a meal there.

That dogaware link is great - I will look at that and try to figure out the co-op thing too. But if I can get free bones, and then do like Leah said with the meat - there is a store by the vet that has manager's specials all the time - and honestly the butchers in the one grocery store are nice enough to ask about that too. Plus eggs. My dogs will be so happy that you all have helped like this!

Thank you!

Last edited by JeanKBBMMMAAN; 02/08/13 02:59 PM.
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #270744
02/08/13 03:16 PM
02/08/13 03:16 PM
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Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
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Jean, Grimm is sitting RIGHT behind me, paranoid2 trying to teleport my English muffin into his mouth. rofl He sends you his best! greet

Bones-- I would avoid giving the knuckle bones (I think this is what you mean by knees? thinking shrug ). No choking hazard, bones are natural food for dogs. wink The concern is that knuckle bones break down too readily, and do indeed become a meal-- but not a suitably more balanced meal, like a raw meaty bone of a raw chicken quarter, which has more meat to round out the amount of bone in there. A meal of mostly just bone can give either serious constipation or diarrhea. eek So, snag some marrow bones (5" long or so) from your grocery butcher. Remove as much of the marrow inside as you can, or ask the butcher to. He likely will! thumbup

This will make Anna's plaque, even very longstanding, heavy, brownish, thick, super-hardened plaque deposits DISAPPEAR. Gone. Teeth may even over time become very white, almost like a puppy's.

How: Easy-- give the bones as a pacifier when you're home. One marrowbone might last 3 weeks or 3 months, it depends on the dog and how hard a chewer she is. Give the marrow bones for an hour or two each day as you're doing things nearby. Store the raw marrowbones in the freezer if you want, or the fridge, until the next chew session.

I love your kibble in the morning and homecooked at night idea! A marrow-scooped-out marrowbone given for a while each day is a soothing, comforting thing, and the plaque really does disappear. Very popular "dental" for dogs who cannot go under anesthesia, or for owners who have dogs who cannot tolerate being at the vet's,or just for those of us who don't wanna pay for a dental. wink


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Braverhund] #270753
02/08/13 04:22 PM
02/08/13 04:22 PM
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Belfast, NY
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Okay, I am technologically challenged but I think I shared the google doc that Don used to figure out the calorie math. Let me know if you don't get it and I will try again.

No I don't feed the egg shells, I use those in my garden. I do add a vitamin supplement by Canine Plus, if you buy a big bucket of them the price isn't too bad.

I am lazy so what I do is take 8 identical Tupperware dishes and for four of them I weight out Rosa's chicken and four get Niko's chicken weight. Then I get a big skillet and scramble up 16 eggs. When they are almost cooked I kind of try to shape them into an even circle, and them turn off the stove. After a minute or so I take the spatula and cut the eggs like a pizza into 8 triangles and plop one triangle into each Tupperware container. So then that gives me four days worth of dinners. It's about 10 minutes of work, minus washing the dishes.

Sometimes I have added cooked veggies to the mix as well, like green beans or zucchini.

Last edited by Good_Karma; 02/08/13 04:23 PM. Reason: Canine plus, not pus lol

Leah
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Good_Karma] #270862
02/09/13 04:18 PM
02/09/13 04:18 PM
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Michigan, USA
lhczth Offline
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I like turkey necks over chicken since it tends to be leaner (calorie wise turkey is leaner than chicken even for people) when I have had fat dogs. It will be leaner than the marrow bones too so something else to use. My dogs all chew, though. I know some people with very large breeds (mastiffs) with large heads/mouths won't feed turkey necks. You can also look into rabbit as one of your raw choices (some dogs eat it. Some won't) since it too is very learn.

Pretty much anything ground is not going to have the same benefits for the teeth as things they have to chew and gnaw.


Lisa Clark
Zu Treuen Händen
SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB IPO2 TR3 KKL B/HOT (the ugly little sable), Jarka B/HOT and gone, but not forgotten: Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT


Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: lhczth] #270892
02/09/13 06:15 PM
02/09/13 06:15 PM
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Jean, I didn't read all the words in this thread shocked , it sounds like some really good advice in here though, but like the idea of making the supper a home prepared meal. As Sarah said, I too have heard that feeding raw with kibble will slow the digestion of the raw and thus it will stay in the tract too long and may cause problems, so your timing would separate the foods.

If a dog is sensitive to chicken, they *may* not be able to handle egg shells. Dogs here couldn't, so I added Calcium Carbonate powder. With Max, I used Nutramin powder, which is high in calcium, and if you're mixing kibble, might be sufficient, I don't know - I didn't balance Max's by myself last time.

If Bella can't have high fat, it might be worth doing a trial of digestive enzymes with her, you don't have to try the heavy duty EPI ones, just something to help a bit. I used to have to give an enzyme to Indy whenever she had a marrow bone. If I can ever get Jazz's issues straightened out, I'd like to work some turkey bones in there once in awhile. I personally like lots of different steamed veggies to mix with the meal, but different dogs sure can have different preferences.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: MaxaLisa] #272181
02/20/13 04:00 PM
02/20/13 04:00 PM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline OP
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I am going to come back and ask more bone questions because they confuse me. My food guy is a raw meaty bone kind of person/Billinghurst?

I did finally break down and give them the patellas. These are not big bones. They look like...part of your knee. Mariele is grossed out and doesn't want to touch it with her feet and I am not sure if she'd like a narrower bone or just not her thing. She's squeamish, and even when she's found dead things on outings is so different - always looks pensive! Anna is also having a bit of trouble but if no one looks at her - including me - she's able to chew. She grabbed it from my hand like I was at the zoo! HA!

But I have to say, there is no way it's not gross and disgusting, particularly with a pack of dogs, and I need to get a better system before I give them another bone.

I've been feeding kibble in the am, and then at night doing mostly cooked with a little kibble because I wasn't sure how they would adjust. For the turkey/sweet potato/bean/rice/berry combo it went well. Going to try egg/turkey/something/quinoa (had it already) as a crockpot casserole and see how that goes! A little worried if the eggs give all of them gas.

Thanks for all the help!

Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #272779
02/25/13 07:37 PM
02/25/13 07:37 PM
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JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline OP
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JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline OP
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Just a little update - Bella does not tolerate EGGS at ALL! YIKES! sick Poor girl. So she's on bland now for a bit to get things back in order. smile Everyone else ate 'em up good.

Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #272786
02/25/13 10:24 PM
02/25/13 10:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Aww, I was worried about her with the eggs! Poor thing (and you lol).


Leah
Re: Franken-Feeding Dogs? [Re: Good_Karma] #272892
02/26/13 07:20 PM
02/26/13 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline OP
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
Yeah - wow. So - she didn't do well with the bone - I will spare the description. Then stupidly I did the egg/turkey thing - I thought the turkey would balance it all out. It actually looked kind of tasty. But that backfired (literally).

Fasted her, started her on bland gave her rice Monday am and then rice/turkey (which she does well on) in 2 small meals. Last night... sick Ava got me up but it was too late. Poor Bella! She went out 2 more times and threw up a little piece of ginger snap I gave her (because apparently I am not on my game in the am and her face was so sad). I have basically disposable rugs, something I did when I first got Anna and it really is one of my smarter moves.

I have a nice spoonful of sample to take in - her appointment is later today. I could just give her Tylan, but I said the last time she had some poop issues that next time I was going to see about redoing her GI testing, checking on chronic pancreatitis, etc. She's 2 years older (she and Mila will be 11 in April) so maybe her pancreas has waved a red flag. Trish had also shown me a GI study on IBD that they are doing at Texas A/M when I posted about it before, so I am asking about that. I like their studies, tons of good info and free, so we will see if she qualifies.

And I just have to say what a wonderful dog she is. First, she's so hungry but being so good and second, even though yes, I would prefer her waking me up to let me know (and she may not have had time) but she is so sweet about having Ava get me to let me know about her issue. I also know when we are at the vet she will be so well behaved.

Everyone else is enjoying the variety and the meals before, during and after they eat!

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