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Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa] #19359
03/14/10 08:49 PM
03/14/10 08:49 PM
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Ohio
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Oh - I just attached the link for the pictures, not the information.

Unfortunately, except for emergencies both MedVet and StonyRidge are closed until tomorrow. I will all then to get an appointment. I know I can get right into Stonyridge - MedVet may take longer.

I am leaning toward StonyRidge hoping to get in Wednesday right after work.

I could also go to my regular vet - but I am not as comfortable with them for things out of the ordinary.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #19375
03/14/10 09:12 PM
03/14/10 09:12 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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You're doing the food change, and starting on the zinc ointment, so that's a start in treatment.

Some folks will use cortisone cream if it seems really itchy or inflamed. I tend to favor Preparation H for inflammation and discomfort, but Max's aren't red externally, his have holes where you can see the tunnel inside, it's a bit different.

This really sucks.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa] #19378
03/14/10 09:17 PM
03/14/10 09:17 PM
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Buffalo
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Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
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Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: BowWowMeow] #19787
03/15/10 09:39 PM
03/15/10 09:39 PM
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Tallahassee, FL
Natalie559 Offline
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No advice, just support! Let us know how the appt goes.


Natalie

enjoying life with Penny 6/04 & Blaze 11/12
while Sasha 1/05-11/12 watches over us

Swing Sets By Design
Read Allen Carr's The Easy Way to Quit Smoking
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: Natalie559] #19952
03/16/10 03:00 AM
03/16/10 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Bonnie, were you able to get an appt soon?

Thinking of you two today!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa] #20313
03/16/10 11:43 PM
03/16/10 11:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee OP
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We are going to Stonyridge tomorrow (Wednesday) evening at 5:30. (I had to take my Mom to an eye doctor out of town for her macular degeneration or it would have been tonight)

I called and the Dr I take Buddy to for his back called us back - talked about 10 minutes and she seemed up to speed on everything.

She said in all her practice she has ONLY seen GSDs with this. Makes sense as what I have read said about 70% of all dogs with PF are our sheps.

She is talking cyclosporin and possibly , at first, also a topical ointment until it is under control (if this is what we are dealing with.)

Lisa - I should have written it down - I can't remember the name of the topical. We talked about Skye's pannus and she is going to do some research before we come in tomorrow.

I feel comfortable with this vet after speaking with her. But I still hope it something simpler.

Oh - and before she hung she said 'I'm glad you read up on these things.' Refreshing.

(Someone here had information about the scripts and Walmart - does anyone remember, or have the link?)

Thanks for the good thoughts, friends. Skye is uncomfortable, but is OK with the compresses. She still wants to play and be a goofy girl so that is good.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20317
03/16/10 11:51 PM
03/16/10 11:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
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Originally Posted By: PositiveDog
Someone here had information about the scripts and Walmart - does anyone remember, or have the link?


That's LisaT: http://www.germanshepherdhome.net/forum/...=true#Post12006

hugging to you and Skye


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: LJsMom] #20320
03/16/10 11:59 PM
03/16/10 11:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,961
Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee OP
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Thank you so much! I will look that up in case I need to be erady.

Also - I found the name of the topical ointment the dr mentioned in one of Lisa's links. It is Tacrolimus cream.

Yes - that is the link I needed! I will also ask about the ketocomaszole (sp?)

Last edited by PositiveDog; 03/17/10 12:03 AM. Reason: update

Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20435
03/17/10 03:58 AM
03/17/10 03:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee OP
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You know - I just looked back and it was just 3 days ago I began posting about this - it seems so much longer. That means that other than the licking, it has been less than a week ago that Skye displayed any real symptoms, beginning with being swollen around the rectum.

Today, she looks so much worse I could cry for her. Sores all around the area, very red, damp and angry looking. Such a change in so little time.

Of all the weird things, I keep thinking about dogs that are not well cared for or dog's with families that do not think of health issues. How fast could a problem spread and how long before some dogs might get some relief? What if they are just yelled at to "stop licking" or ignored.

What if someone has the dog and does care, but can't afford the vet and treatment costs? In today's world, that could be any one of us. Businesses close, families break up, budgets barely buy groceries and gas.

I don't know why I am on this rant - I guess because I feel so helpless for my own dog tonight. By this time tomorrow night I will know where we stand and I can only hope Skye will get some relief.

On a lighter note - when Skye sees I have the flashlight, she lies quietly while I check her for changes. I guess anything can become a routine.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20466
03/17/10 04:58 AM
03/17/10 04:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
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Hugs to you, Bonnie. I hope that things go well tomorrow for Skye.

I think about this stuff all of the time b/c of Cleo's health. I've nursed her through so much this past year and I know so many others would have just let her go or wouldn't have spent the money. But we're lucky to have these animals in our lives, aren't we? wub


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20478
03/17/10 06:23 AM
03/17/10 06:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Bonnie, you are so right, there are so many out there that don't have the care and attention that our furkids have, and it's heartbreaking. Many of those dogs don't make it. Ruth, with Cleo, and so many others on our board, are an inspiration.

PF treatment can be expensive, and many can't afford it. I just sent my left-over cyclosporine to someone that lost their job.

I have cried for Max on occasion, and probably will in the future too. It's a dreaded disease. For those that don't reach remission, it does become a chronic disease that becomes a "new normal", that you all adapt to (like that darn flashlight), and many dogs will still be happy and goofy and play and run. There might be times when you yet again feel so helpless, but then you figure something out, and it will get better.

Thanks Joanne for posting that link. Yep, Walgreen's is the best price so far for the generic (modified) cyclosporine. The tacrolimus ointment is usually ordered from Roadrunner pharmacy, I think it's 30gm for about $66 (will last several months), though someone on the list just said they found it cheaper. Vets seem to know and trust Roadrunner though.

The ketoconazole, an antifungal, I think is a good idea for two reasons. It means that you can use lower doses of cyclosporine, always a good idea. Also, cyclo is an immune suppressant and will further make the dogs susceptible to bacterial and fungal infections. GSDs are already susceptible to fungal infections, so I think this is just a bit more insurance. If Skye tends to get yeasty ears, then I think it's even a better idea!

I'm looking forward to hearing what the doc has to say tomorrow, wishing you good luck, and lots of hugs to Skye.



MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa] #20800
03/18/10 12:30 AM
03/18/10 12:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,961
Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee OP
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OK - we're back from the vet's office and Skye was, as always, a trooper. Other than leaving enough hair to cover our friend Spike on this board, she did everything asked.

After taking a history, the DR checked Skye over in general, not wanting to start right away where she hurt the most. she was glad to hear I had chosen titers this year and said she really should not have annual vacs.

She did mention that Sky's spleen is large - not swollen feeling, but large. She said it may just be that it seems that way since Skye is slender with a tucked, small tummy. Nothing to worry about.

Down to business, she dimmed the lights in the room and put a bright light on Skye's rectum. The drs first words were, 'yes, I believe you are right and we are dealing with PF here.'

Then, while checking her internally, she found her anal glands were full - she expressed them and said they were clean - no puss or blood, so not infected.

Skye is 6 1/2 and has never had problems with her anal glands and no scooting or anything. Someone mentioned anal glands and I was surprised to hear they needed to be emptied.

She said that although it could be that the glands made Skye uncomfortable, making her lick a lot and that caused what we were seeing she did not believe that is the case.

It is probable it is the other way around and they have become full since she started having problems.

She wants to treat her for PF and watch the glands in the mean time.

She is OK with the cyclosporin for Skye's eyes or to use locally, she doesn't want to put her on that orally.

We are starting with Ciprofloxin as an antibiotic for about two weeks - 250 mg every 12 hours.

Then we ordered tacrolimus in cream form to apply topically. It is $68 where she orders and I told her to go ahead and do that.

I take Skye back in two weeks, unless there are problems and by then it should be more apparent what we have for certainty.

So there is still a chance it is not PF.

Lisa and others with experience - does this sound like a good start to you?

( I was happy to hear that pred is not a first choice for her - it is usually cyclosporin, but not for Skye.)


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20807
03/18/10 12:50 AM
03/18/10 12:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
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crossedfingers
It would be really nice if it was not.

So wishing you the best in the next couple of weeks and a clean bill of health then.

If not...thankful she is with you.

Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: PositiveDog] #20957
03/18/10 04:16 AM
03/18/10 04:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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What a good girl Skye is wub

About the anal glands. On the PF list, they say there are two kinds fistulas. Those that will resolve when the anal gland issue is resolved, and those that are independent of the anal glands. In the former, they recommend removal of the anal glands. I have no experience with this, but I think that Jakoda (Diane) had this experience.

Interesting about the vet think that the fistula may be the cause of the anal gland problem rather than the other way around. I had never thought of that, and it certainly seems reasonable to me. I am increasingly wondering about Max's anal gland on that side.

I like that your doc is not jumping to the cyclo. Max's Derm says that about 50% of her PF dogs require cyclo. Max's PF got a lot better on Baytril/Cipro (similar drugs, Cipro much cheaper, thought not to be as effective).

The first vet that Max saw for this, was a fill-in vet, and she said that antibiotics for gland issues often require long term treatment, like 6 weeks. Of course this is different. I might put Skye on some hyaluronic acid, only because Baytril/Cipro can be hard on ligaments and tendons, and HA is the only thing I can think of that might help counter that, though I don't know for sure.

I think your vet is right on, from what I know, and hopefully Skye will be quickly on her way to healing crossedfingers


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: perianal fistulas - scared for skye [Re: MaxaLisa] #22869
03/22/10 10:10 PM
03/22/10 10:10 PM
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Ohio
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OK, folks. Finally, Skye's cream is here - tracrolimus. I really want to be sure this stays on her and not IN her. I have tried different things on her, boys briefs, etc. I don't think they would remain on long if I am not here.

What do you think about the pants they make for dogs in heat? I have never bought those - do they stay on good with the velcro tabs?

She is to get this on her bum 2X a day.

She has been on the cipro since last Thursday night. She looks extremely sore, so I don't know if it is helping, but I am sure it is by at least not allowing infection.

Skye's spirits seem good and she has been very playful. Maybe the med and her new food, Orijen 6 fish.

Another question. My sister keeps her dog on 4 life transfer factor, classic. She swears by it and thinks this is why her aussie is still with us in spite of an anemia problem.

http://transferfactor-4-life.com/4lifetransferfactorclassic90capsules.aspx

I bought a bottle and have it today. But now - would I be upsetting things if I bump up her immune system since her problems are auto immune related? I am so confused!

We go back for a follow up on the 30th.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
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