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Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #251358
09/08/12 07:44 AM
09/08/12 07:44 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Most of that bloodwork is right down the middle, isn't it?

I have a few observations, and I don't know what they mean, if anything. Bloodwork is a shot in time and it could be all different tomorrow, but....

The high haemaglobin, goes along with the high normal Hct. The RBC is in the upper normal, but nothing that anyone just looking at that alone would think twice about. I'm thinking this is related somehow to the high normal bicarbonate, but I have no idea what the relationship is.

All the blood counts (neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils, basophils) are all normal. Almost all of them are lower than the midpoint of their normal regions, except for the monocytes, which is in the higher normal region. Looking at the percentages, the monocytes are at the high end of the percentage of the blood they should normally take up.

Don't know if any of that means anything, nothing is *really* wrong!

How is she doing? Any respiratory problems? Is she getting enough water?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #251359
09/08/12 08:18 AM
09/08/12 08:18 AM
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Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you for looking Lisa smile

I have no idea what any of it means really! No respiratory issues and she has always gulped a lot of water. She seems more herself but the the last few days we have had really strong winds so that upsets her a bit.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #251387
09/08/12 03:16 PM
09/08/12 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Then. I guess I wouldn't worry about the bloodwork, but I would repeat in a year if nothing happens sooner, just to make sure.

These acid/alkaline things are really complicated, I don't really understand them, and have googled the heck out of them for isues both indy and max had at different times. Just for reference, I'll put this link and quote here in case we need it in a year wink

Here is a process I don't think is happening, but gives a clue how the bicarb and hct/hemoglobin can be related: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_hypoventilation_syndrome

Quote:
episodes of nighttime acidosis (e.g. due to sleep apnea) lead to compensation by the kidneys with retention of the alkali bicarbonate. This normalizes the acidity of the blood. However, bicarbonate stays around in the bloodstream for longer, and further episodes of hypercapnia lead to relatively mild acidosis and reduced ventilatory response in a vicious circle.[2][8]

Low oxygen levels lead to hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction, the tightening of small blood vessels in the lung to create an optimal distribution of blood through the lung. Persistently low oxygen levels causing chronic vasoconstriction leads to increased pressure on the pulmonary artery (pulmonary hypertension), which in turn puts strain on the right ventricle, the part of the heart that pumps blood to the lungs. The right ventricle undergoes remodeling, becomes distended and is less able to remove blood from the veins. When this is the case, raised hydrostatic pressure leads to accumulation of fluid in the skin (edema), and in more severe cases the liver and the abdominal cavity.[2]

The chronically low oxygen levels in the blood also lead to increased release of erythropoietin and the activation of erythropoeisis, the production of red blood cells. This results in polycythemia, abnormally increased numbers of circulating red blood cells and an elevated hematocrit.[2]

The only thing I might wonder if she's a bit too acidic, and might need some veggies.


Last edited by MaxaLisa; 09/08/12 03:19 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #251467
09/09/12 09:36 AM
09/09/12 09:36 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you Lisa, I really don't understand!

She has steamed beans, peas, brocolli and cauliflower every night to try and fill her up.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #251524
09/09/12 06:38 PM
09/09/12 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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What I'm thinking is that her acid/alkali is a bit off, but I don't understand that stuff much at all, despite trying to. The deeper I look at it, the more I confuse myself. So, I guess I don't understand either crazy

So, in addition to the above, what else is she fed?

We had a dog at training, has been a reactive for years, I helped train her when she first came to training as a younger dog a LONG time ago. She belongs to one of the trainers out there. Just recently the owner added green beans to the diet, and there has been a huge turn around in behaviour - it's just amazing. We don't understand it. I'm guessing it can work both ways.

So, since nothing else is showing up, I really would look at something that is too much, or not enough. It might even be the need of some of the stuff that is in the supplement that Bonnie posted about. Of course, if this is an isolated incident, there are no worries. Retesting in a year (6 months if something worrisome comes up), in my mind, is to make sure that we make sure that bloodwork doesn't progress. Maybe with the diet she is on, that higher Hct and Bicarb is her normal, but you want to make sure that it's a consistent level, and not increasing.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #251603
09/10/12 08:12 AM
09/10/12 08:12 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Thank you so much Lisa. She has been much better the last few days, no shaking. Although she doesn't really want to go outside (esp in the morning) and Cooper doesn't want to come inside!!!!

She has been half raw fed/half kibble for about 3 months now. She was on 100% raw but when we moved, well I haven't been able to find a good cheap butcher. And paying around $5 per kilo is a bit too much to cope with.

I will retest her thank you. I just don't know where to start with adding or subtracting something. So I think unless she flips out again, I will leave as is???


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #251727
09/11/12 08:12 AM
09/11/12 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Is it possible that she is having gas or bloating (not "bloat", but more regular bloat), that is throwing her off?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #251739
09/11/12 11:48 AM
09/11/12 11:48 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Yes that is possible! Especially due to that darn broccoli and cauliflower!!! laugh So tonight before bed I will give her a charcoal tablet and see if she is more settled in the morning. Thank you Lisa, that is a great idea!


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #251764
09/11/12 01:46 PM
09/11/12 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
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Wait a minute...I just remembered something that might help. Chama went through a phase where she was waking up in the middle of the night every night. She just couldn't get comfortable! We would take her outside and she would just stand and stare out the front gate. I thought she was seeing ghosts or something!!!!!! Anyway, I finally figured out that she was allergic to the protein I was feeding her (turkey). I changed her diet and she stopped getting up in the night.

So, I think you're on to something...


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
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Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: BowWowMeow] #251782
09/11/12 02:49 PM
09/11/12 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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:crosedfingers: would be great if there were an easy-ish fix!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #252943
09/20/12 08:19 AM
09/20/12 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Just thought I would update, Miss Moo is back to normal apart from in the morning she does not want to out outside.

If Cooper wakes me at say 6 am, he will go straight out but Molly must cross her legs until a few hours later. Very odd.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: bianca] #252944
09/20/12 10:12 AM
09/20/12 10:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
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Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Glad to read she is acting more "normal". Funny about the toileting needs - in the morning Quynne also seems to decide to hold it when she has ample opportunities.

Last edited by Qyn; 09/20/12 10:13 AM. Reason: spelling

Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: Qyn] #253020
09/20/12 09:18 PM
09/20/12 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
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Good_Karma  Offline
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That's good news. I wonder if something is still scaring her a little bit in the yard. If Rosa is nervous about something she won't potty unless she is bursting. Wish we could sit down with them and talk it out!


Leah
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: Good_Karma] #253067
09/21/12 03:36 AM
09/21/12 03:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
It really does seem like she's nervous about something frown Glad though all is well otherwise.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Miss Moo is off her rocker :( [Re: MaxaLisa] #253087
09/21/12 07:10 AM
09/21/12 07:10 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
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bianca  Offline OP
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Queensland. Australia
Yes it really does seem that something is scaring her but I have no idea what. Any other time of the day she flys out the door barking madly at perceived noises. But why she doesn't want to that in the morning I have no idea.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
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