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Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #274611
03/08/13 08:09 AM
03/08/13 08:09 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Found this about GABA, which is very interestin, considering low IgA in GSDs, and many experience stress:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16971751/

Jazz gets the trembles in the car on the way in in the morning. After each of the two days that she has had this stuff, it stops fairly early into the drive, though the jury is still out.

I started all the new supps and he was kinda weird, so I'm starting one at a time now, and giving 1/2 a dose of the GABA. I think the amount in a capsule is way to much for , 18 pound dog.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 03/08/13 08:13 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #274612
03/08/13 11:53 AM
03/08/13 11:53 AM
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Belfast, NY
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Yeah, like I said I didn't completely agree with the author. This was the same author that also said all you needed to have a well adjusted dog was to socialize well during puppyhood. But I did like the admission that all dogs are indeed prone to SA. That part made sense to me, as we have bred them to be so handler aware, and dependent upon us for everything.


Leah
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: Good_Karma] #288118
07/04/13 12:18 AM
07/04/13 12:18 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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I've been thinking about a few things lately.

The first is this article I just saw on FB: http://caninesinaction.com/2011/06/storm...tional-baggage/

I had someone tell me how we creat SA, and that it's all about leadership. I think, for real SA, that's an awfully simplistic point of view, and a bit of a cop-out. I don't for a minute discount that we can create SA, but not all SA is mild or moderate, and it's not all about being the leader. It's about teaching someone, that doesn't understand the world, to face and defeat a fear that is so bad that it makes them vomit, makes them pee or poop, makes them loose all control of their senses.

I've also been thinking about this article: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130621095502.htm and the "secure base" phenomena. Makes perfect sense to me. If I'm around, Jazz is extremely confident, wandering far away from me if we are out in fields, etc.

However, "absent owner" sees a very different dog than they would, even if I am far away from her.

Overall, we do have progress. I still cannot leave her alone, but I have not been able to work on that. (Health issues have intervened and contribute to the anxiety: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...ways#Post275297 ).

But..... I can crate her in the house for short periods of time. I have left her for short periods of time in the house alone (when the neighbor's dog was loose and I had to bring him home). I am leaving her in the house behind a closed door when I go outside, or the garage, with greater success. At school, I have left her in my office for a few minutes without a peep. These all may sound very trivial, but before all these things would trigger a complete fear freak out.

I haven't been able to find food rewards to help distract her, but, until now, she was too afraid really for me to use this tool. I think we might be ready to ramp this up a bit. I have tried really hard not to suppress who she really is, and what I find, is that she is not really a velcro dog, but a confident, protective, energetic, outgoing girl, as long as she knows I am somewhere present. Secure Base Effect I guess.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #290320
07/27/13 07:13 PM
07/27/13 07:13 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #290331
07/27/13 09:50 PM
07/27/13 09:50 PM
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Ohio
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I thought of you when I saw that article in my feed today.

How is Jazz?


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: PositiveDog] #290465
07/29/13 08:11 AM
07/29/13 08:11 AM
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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Thanks for thinking of us Bonnie.

I really haven't been able to work much on the SA. Just overwhelmed with all the physical issues, and while we are doing some obedience training on the weekend, and her conditioning class during the week, I am just really cautious about using treats. So I haven't done much but a few trips out front that lasted a few minutes.

So, she's fine if I don't have to leave her wink

Actually, they said she did really well at daycare last Thursday - I am making sure she goes a couple day during my break. I was thinking it was some of the homeopathics I tried, but could be the St. John's Wort I restarted might be finally kicking in. That takes awhile to work, particularly since I have her on a low dose. If the SJW works, I'll be able to make ome progress. Otherwise I might have to medicate, but I hate to go through that when I can't commit to all the other stuff, the vet will have us ee a beahviorist, and that's pretty expensive too. There was an incident where I had to leave her in the car at night when I went to see mom in the ER, and she just freaked, so I restarted the SJW. Mom is okay, but not o sure about jazz.

She had a paanic attack when I left her in the front yard today, had to bring the mower to the backyard before I could bring her back. The good news is that when I return, she doesn't scream anymore, but she does a lot of jumping up and is still in a panic. I was able to get her to do some sits, downs, and stands, which is pretty huge for her. I started trying that picking her up from daycare, and she will finally do some quick sits. I guess that's progress.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #292889
08/25/13 08:06 AM
08/25/13 08:06 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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I am going to get this book: http://thebark.com/content/separation-distress-and-dogs-2nd-edition I just need to decide what format I want to get it in. Probably pdf.

I have started working on "waits" in the house where I move out of sight, and once I am confident enough in her "stays", will work on those too. I guess I will try to do this in different places in the house. I think maybe then I might try doing this with her inside and me outside (wait only). Since wait and stay mean that there will be a command following, she knows that she will not be left alone, but that we are continuing to work together. I'm hoping that that will get her used to being alone in a room without me. She actually can be in a room without me, but only on her terms, and this will put things more on my terms and have her accept that.

Then I'm hoping I can add distractions (like a kong, without any command), and work on leaving her alone for periods at a time. She is too severe still to even try the things in Patricia McConnell's book.

I really need to get working on this - while I can use the daycare while I'm at work, if something happens outside of that (like in the evening with the folks), I'm up the creek and she's going to go nuts and hurt herself. Have to say that even leaving her at the daycare is very stressful for her, but after she is there for a bit, she does settle.

Sure would be nice to be able to leave her in the house - what a relief that would be, on so many different levels shocked


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #292891
08/25/13 09:05 AM
08/25/13 09:05 AM
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Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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hugging So wish I lived closer, I could be the emergency dog-sitter hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: bianca] #292921
08/25/13 07:23 PM
08/25/13 07:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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That would be great Auntie bianca smile

It's frustrating, because I know even the trainers here don't fully "get it". I do feel better knowing that some of the best trainers have faced this (and written about it). Max had anxiety, Jazz has terror, though I do think she is able to work on it now, if I can find the emotional energy.

Jazz's old agility instructor just recently put a rescue dog of hers down because of her SA frown


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #292932
08/25/13 09:08 PM
08/25/13 09:08 PM
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Mary Jane Offline
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I am surprised that some trainers don't comprehend the depth of Jazz' pain. You are quite articulate in describing her behavior to us. I guess her confidence in you when you're together might mask something, but I really don't know enough to judge.

Whatever scarred (I mean scarred, not frightened) Jazz when she was very young, she has since found paradise. I don't know how dogs think, but I can imagine she might be afraid to lose it.

take care,
MJ

Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: Mary Jane] #292945
08/26/13 01:42 AM
08/26/13 01:42 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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MJ, you are very astute!

When she is with me, she is very confident, so it probably is hard to imagine. It really doesn't make logical sense that a dog would have such a reaction, so maybe I get it.

Just being alone on the streets at such a young age, must have been very scary! I hope she is past that after this time, and I hope she knows she is safe here, and hopefully we are just now trying to deal with the conditioned response. Lots of hope!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #292962
08/26/13 09:11 AM
08/26/13 09:11 AM
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Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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Lisa I know that in a perfect world if money were never an issue, do you think somehow 'finding' a suitable dog would be helpful for Jazzy? I know that would be hard to do but I wonder if she had a buddy that was always with her if it may help. But then I think it would be super hard to find a 'stable' dog that couldn't pick up on her fears etc? hugging hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: bianca] #292996
08/26/13 06:52 PM
08/26/13 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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bianca, if I knew that it would work, I would do it. I would save money just because of the daycare!! But I'm afraid that I'll just have two dogs, and still at least one with issues.

Her shaking is less, but her anxiety has increased. I'm thinking that the shaking is diet related, and the anxiety, well, complicated. BUT, I have not been giving the Standard Process thyroid support (off all of those for awhile before the addison's test). Hopefully the thyroid support will help with some of the anxiety, and will look into some of the other support now (like the l-theanine).


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: MaxaLisa] #293046
08/27/13 07:43 AM
08/27/13 07:43 AM
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Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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Yes I did wonder that frown hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Separation Anxiety (Jazz) [Re: bianca] #307414
02/02/14 11:01 PM
02/02/14 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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I'm going to lock this, as it seems I've start part two of this thread here: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...tion#Post307148


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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