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Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: bianca] #260548
11/14/12 03:46 PM
11/14/12 03:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 980
TimberWolf Offline
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TimberWolf  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 980
Lisa, my heart just breaks for you and Jazzy. You both are so meant for each other and all this stuff getting in the way of your being able to relax and just enjoy each other. It feels so helpless not to be able to extend any solutions. I wish all this could be resolved with just a hug or something. My goodness, I so hope all this will come to an end quickly and Jazzy will realize that you won't leave her, that you will always be with her and that there is no reason to fear. She is such a beautiful baby. I so love to see her resting in the sun. I bet that feels so good to her on more than one level.

Thinking of you both.


...in remembrance of all Timber Wolves unjustifyably hunted down and killed for no valid reason at all.
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: TimberWolf] #260731
11/16/12 05:25 PM
11/16/12 05:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
Natalie559 Offline
Veteran
Natalie559  Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
I am sorry you are dealing with this Lisa, I didn't know. It's a tough situation, but you'll make it through, I just know you will. Hang in there.


Natalie

enjoying life with Penny 6/04 & Blaze 11/12
while Sasha 1/05-11/12 watches over us

Swing Sets By Design
Read Allen Carr's The Easy Way to Quit Smoking
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Natalie559] #261271
11/22/12 08:59 PM
11/22/12 08:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,583
SeanRescueMom Offline
Carpal Tunnel
SeanRescueMom  Offline
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Posts: 2,583
Lisa, I can relate in part to the SA. Although not the same situation but when we first adopted Sean ions ago he had very bad SA. Fortunately I was on summer vacation from work, i.e. school. Since I know you teach as well I know you understand. How long is your winter break? We have 2 wks. off and every little bit helps. One of the teachers I work with also had a dog with S.A. and an elderly neighbor of hers volunteered to come in several times throughout the day to play and keep her dog company. Don't know if this is a possibility for you but just wanted to throw it out there and let you know I'm thinking of you. hug


Sean - 1998/2014
If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart I'll stay there forever.
Carleton DOB unknown
Neely - 2003/2015
Gizmo -2008/2011
Neeko -1991/2005
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: SeanRescueMom] #261379
11/23/12 07:55 PM
11/23/12 07:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
Thank you guys, we are plugging away here. It's aalmost like we are too meant to be and she has latched onto that o tightly. Whenever we leave, even if I tell her where we are going (someplace she likes), he is okay for the first 5 or 10 minutes. Then the next 10 or 15 she has terrible tremors. Towards the end of the drive, she has settled some. (Everything is at least 30 minutes away).

Progress is slow, but there is progress. At work I was able to leave her in my office alone, close the door, run down the hall to get something off the printer, and return without her making a noise. That was HUGE. I went to the grocery store, was able to park so she could watch the door. She yipped and yowled when I left, but when I came out, she was quiet, and watching the door (off course started up when she aw me), but neither of those would have been posible earlier.

Sean getting past that is encouraging! Break will be hard because I have to remember to work really diligently on this. I will still have to take her to day care once or twice a week so that I can run errands and do things that would be tough for her. I would like to get her used to being alone in the car too.

Unfortunately, all my neighbors are too active to help much at this point frown I don't remember if I mentioned it earlier, but when indy was young, I was able to leave her at my folks' quite a bit. But right now that's a safety hazard, for various reasons because of their ages and disabilities. Sigh, I need to move closer to work if I am going to continue to have dogs I think....


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa] #261461
11/24/12 10:21 AM
11/24/12 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Wow that progress with being able to leave her in your office is HUGE! Maybe she just feels less anxious when not at home?

How is the St Johns going? Have you noticed a difference yet?


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa] #261467
11/24/12 02:24 PM
11/24/12 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,437
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,437
Massachusetts
Lisa, I see this: small bits of progress.. small bits of progress.. and MORE small bits of progress! Really, you may not be where you wish to be with her SA yet, but you two are making strides that are cumulative! goodjob The daycare, the St. John's, the routines, the telling her what's coming next, every little thing you do is helping. I'm continuing to send good thoughts Jazzy's way, for continued success! The office situation is indeed huge! Great work! cheers


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Braverhund] #261478
11/24/12 05:40 PM
11/24/12 05:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
I don't think I could leave either of my two in a closed room in a place that wasn't home without them making a sound! thumbup


Leah
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Good_Karma] #261661
11/25/12 11:19 PM
11/25/12 11:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
Yes, thank you, these are definite positive steps!

Last night she was rough housing, and I wasn't paying attention, and she spilled a near full cup of coffee on the rug (ugh!). I was able to throw her in the crate (near the area) and clean up, without a peep from her - I was astounded.

Today, raking and mowing the front yard, I had her on a tie out before the neighborhood kids came out. (Funny how they can completely change the compoure of a quiet Sunday afternoon!). I had to put her in an xpen, and I was able to work at a distance from her, even occassionally out of sight from her, again, without a peep. She still got anxious, till rewarding for good behaviour, but this is huge, conidering the first time I tried that, the then 12 pound dog sscaled the ide of the 3 ft xpen out of fear of separation, and then when put back screamed her little head off.

This may not get fixed over break, or even in the next several months, but hopefully by next year, most of this will be a memory.

I complain about the cost of daycare, because it really is a hardship right now, but I guess it's a bit like boarding school right now. I have this over the top little one, and I'm single, they are not only keeping her safe while I am gone, but are helping train her too. She is getting very good in a variety of situations, and I'm not sure I could have done that alone with my schedule.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa] #261681
11/26/12 01:41 AM
11/26/12 01:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
Old Hand
LJsMom  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
Progress!


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: LJsMom] #261749
11/26/12 08:42 AM
11/26/12 08:42 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
I know you are so experienced in all things dogs (and I am not) but as usual a random thought that came to mind...do you think Jazzy may be picking up on any anxiousness when you try and crate her? I just thought as I was reading about the coffee that neither one of you had time to stress beforehand? You just put her straight in there while you cleaned up. Rambling and probably completely wrong smile


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: bianca] #261802
11/26/12 04:09 PM
11/26/12 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
Bianca, I'm jut plugging my way through this, certainly LOTS to learn!

They have been crating her at daycare, and just the day before I had her in the crate while I was exercising, so I think it's *actual* progress, which is great.

She hasn't been to daycare since laast Monday. Completely freaking in the car this morning frown just gotta appreciiate the inches of progress at times like this I guess.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: bianca] #265075
12/22/12 09:47 PM
12/22/12 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
Just updating...

The St. John's Wort was (and still is!) a big help. Now after using that for awhile, and 3 months of doggie daycare, she can't wait to go. Instead of running away from the door when we get there, she lunges towards it, which makes me very happy.

I am on break for several weeks, but she will still go once or twice a week so that we don't lose ground and I can then run errands on those days. Next term, 4 long days at work, so we'll have to continue with daycare on those days. Maybe by next year, sigh.

I can leave her in the car for one short errand on each outing, but that is not the most pleasant experience for her. I am hoping to work on that more as a first step.

I had ordered some Tawzer videos when they had a big sale, and watched the one on SA by Dodman the other night. He talks about how the counter conditioning for cues doesn't work, and that has been my experience here. Dogs are too smart and much better than we are at these things, they quickly learn when it means when you are leaving and when you aren't. Might help for mild cases, but doesn't do much for more severe cases.

He did suggest that you don't feed the breakfast meal until you are ready to leave (so they eat when you are gone, I worry about stress eating) - I have always fed, then walked for elimination, then left them with a kong. Not sure about if I'll change that. If I can get a doggie door up and trust her with that access, might be doable. Easier when you feed a breakfast that can be stuffed in a kong.

A gave her some B12 the other day, and it seemed to make a big difference. Googling, some people with anxiety have noticed the same thing. Makes me wonder about these anxious GSDs that also have digestive issues - wonder if B12 would help. Anyway, trying some B12 therapy this week.

Definite progress, but still a long ways to go. I am fortunate I am able to squeak by with the daycare, but will need a new car soon, payments again, so worried about that, always something.

She is doing great in agility. The trainer say if we can get her past her anxiety (when people enter the room and move around), she could compete. She is smart, very quick, and receptive to commands - I am probably the main thing that holds her back smile She has alway been bit of a mountain goat, loves to climb high, and the agility seems to encourage this. She is such a fun little dog wub

Here is what I call her meerkat llok, though it's more obvious when he doesn't have a vest on!





(Hehe, snuck in a Santa pic smile I need to scan her "official" pic at some point.)

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 12/22/12 09:53 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa] #265079
12/22/12 10:02 PM
12/22/12 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
The Dodman video had some interesting stuff in it. He mentioned one study where they could predict with a high degree of accuracy which shelter dogs would have SA when they went home with their new owner. It would habve been true with Jazz. When I first saw her, she sat back and barked at me. After spending time with her (and liver treats), when I went back to say goodbye and tell her I'd be back, she was already going ballistic. Againt the cage. Very different behaviour, and I remember taking note of it, but clearly not knowing what it fully meant.

He also talked about how the dogs that have a lot of emotional nouirishment and love and closeness typcially don't develop this, but those that have an interuption in that process of learning about confidence and separation do - could even be a stay at the vet for a puppy illness. Most SA peaks older than Jazz, at 2 or 3 years, though there is a young group, which understandably, being dumped on the streets at 4 months old, and who knows what before, she is in.

He alo talked about older, senior dogs developing SA as they age. For that group, he seees medicating as the best option.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: MaxaLisa] #265080
12/22/12 10:16 PM
12/22/12 10:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
I can't contribute to an SA discussion, except to say it sounds like Jazz is getting better (in day care at least).

What I did want to say is what a distinguished profile she has (head set?). Look at the proporations of her head and ears and neck-pretty pretty girl.

MJ

Re: Separation Anxiety [Re: Mary Jane] #265082
12/22/12 10:33 PM
12/22/12 10:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,493
Northern CA
Thank you Mary Jane, she really is a pretty girl. I don't like this cold weather, she needs to wear something for warmth, so I don't get to see "all of her" much of the time.

She was really good with Santa, though wouldn't sit in his lap or let him lift her! But she took treats, and did sit right up next to him.

This SA is something else. How it can turn a wonderful dog in most aspects, into thi little terror, because of the terror that the dog feels.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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