German Shepherd Home
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #274873
03/10/13 05:55 PM
03/10/13 05:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
J
JakodaCD OA Offline
Veteran
JakodaCD OA  Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
ditto great post leah:)

I have had dogs 'forever', the majority of them were all 'raised' the same way, I don't pretend to be an expert dog trainer, but I think I've done ok with the dogs I've had.

I do believe that genetics play a major part in a dogs wiring.

Case in point, I got kodi at 8 weeks of age, socialized him, obed classes, did everything I did with my other sound stable dog. He was a fear biter, shoulda known when his 'mother' was also a fear biter. He wasn't fond of kids, you couldn't stick your hand over my fence without getting 'nipped'..He was great with his 'circle' of family, but strangers 'iffy'..

He was what he was, I didn't blame myself, or think that "I" did something wrong, it was in his genes and tho you can 'manage' a dog like this,which I did, it was always wired in him, thus a dog who couldn't be trusted.


Diane
Ozzie von Kleinen Hain
Jakoda's Kholee
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Danger Danger von Kleinen Hain aka "Masi"
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx aka "Jynx"
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge aka "Jag"
"Angel" Sami
"Angel" Dodge
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: JakodaCD OA] #274883
03/10/13 07:10 PM
03/10/13 07:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Outer Banks, NC
Hatterasser Offline
Addict
Hatterasser  Offline
Addict
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Outer Banks, NC
Over the past 10 years, I've had both Thor and Freya in my life. One could not find two more different personalities, even though raised in the same household by the same person.

Thor was fear aggressive right from the beginning. He was bonded to me totally and was an absolute cuddle bug and wuss at home with me. But out in the world, he was unpredictable. One never knew what he would or would not react to. Walking him was a trial at all times, never a pleasure. Once, meeting with a neighbor he knew well, something the man did apparently frightened the dickens out of Thor and, without any warning, he lunged and bit the man's knee.

Freya, on the other hand, is and has always been the most laid back, gentle, friendly dog I've even known (and I've had dogs in my family since I was a child, centuries ago). Little bothers her and I could take her anywhere without fear. She is always well behaved and polite.

If anyone speaks of nurture overcoming nature, I beg to differ. The nature of Thor was never overcome in almost 9 years and was, as I've said, unpredictable. Fear aggression is innately a part of dog's genetic compound and no matter how well loved and trained, will rear its ugly head unexpectedly.

I look at my dogs as children from the same family, raised the same way by the same loving people. One may grow up to be a social worker, caring about all of humanity. One may grow up to be an alcoholic and a bum. And one may grow up to be a murderer. How can that happen? Yet it does.

All we can do is the best we can when training our dogs. Be firm with them, correct mistakes, show them the proper behavior, understand that the differences in their personalities may require different training skills, and most of all love them and pray for the best.


Diane...Freya's mom
If I weren't so damn healthy, I'd be sick...and I'm NOT sick.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear.
I Aear cân ven na mar
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #274889
03/10/13 07:35 PM
03/10/13 07:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 116
Pittsburgh, PA USA
W
Wolfstraum Offline
Member
Wolfstraum  Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 116
Pittsburgh, PA USA
Leah - it is genetics - plain and simple. That he functions well in the home and with family is because you love him and have worked with him....we all make mistakes - the media/social networks etc...tell us so many conflicting things...it is hard to figure out who is right (BTW - I am ALWAYS right wink wink wink ) and what to do...

Lee

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #274891
03/10/13 07:36 PM
03/10/13 07:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,129
Fairfield, Ca.
Schnickle Fritz Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Schnickle Fritz  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,129
Fairfield, Ca.
m0re great posts!!!


Have a great day!!!
NLS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Fritz vom Banach TR1 TT RN RA BN NW1 BH 10/10/09
Cuvee' d' la Maze ORT-BCA BH 01/14/11
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #274903
03/10/13 08:20 PM
03/10/13 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
PositiveDog Online coffee
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Online Coffee
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,962
Ohio
I am finding these posts to be interesting and informative. And for the most part very courteous.

Thank you to all who have shared your personal experiences with your dogs over the years.

The more we know the more we grow. thumbup


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #275181
03/12/13 05:45 PM
03/12/13 05:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 632
Michigan
dano Offline
Addict
dano  Offline
Addict
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 632
Michigan
A well bred dog is so much easier than a spook, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
Nurturing can change the outward behaviors, but one needs to be ever vigilant when the nerves are weak and thresholds low. Of course vigilance is necessary with all,
but intervention simply won't be required as often when solid nerves exist.

Have hosted both, and it's more work dealing with a nerve bag, for sure.

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: dano] #275250
03/12/13 09:26 PM
03/12/13 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Originally Posted By: dano
A well bred dog is so much easier than a spook, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
Nurturing can change the outward behaviors, but one needs to be ever vigilant when the nerves are weak and thresholds low. Of course vigilance is necessary with all,
but intervention simply won't be required as often when solid nerves exist.

Have hosted both, and it's more work dealing with a nerve bag, for sure.


Agree.

BTW, your username is remarkably similar to someone else's. I thought you'd had a personality change lol

Last edited by Good_Karma; 03/12/13 09:28 PM. Reason: I am a moron.

Leah
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Good_Karma] #275277
03/13/13 01:29 AM
03/13/13 01:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,160
West Bay RI
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah
SunCzarina  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,160
West Bay RI
Leah, you are not a moron LOL, I read dano/deno the same way.

My opinion, it's more genetics than how they're raised. Nature is more important than nurture but nurture is still quite important.

Morgan is the biggest reason I think this. I've often said she was 'shattered' when I got her. She was truly a mess, who ever had her from 8 weeks until she ran away at 6 months messed that dog up, tried to beat her spirit out of her. She was fearful, she was with me a year before she stopped hiding behind my leg every time some new friendly person wanted to meet her.

Shattered.

Morgan, the Queen of North Edgewood! She needed kindness but not coddling. Rules, structure, a confident dog like Luther to help her learn who she was. She also needed a job, that was odd but she picked James as her job.

It was never weak nerves that gave Morgan the urge to maim people, it was her fierce loyalty to me and the children. Never did anything that was uncalled for or I didn't understand in hindsight why she'd seen the need to be aggressive. A bit more aggressive than I like in a dog, less warning than I'd like but that was just her nature, she was a fierce bitch.

Unlike Otto, who I'm often told looks fierce but he's still that same sweet curious little bear I met at 5 weeks old. I had plenty of opportunities to mess him up, the kids, Morgan, random life events. Nothing I threw at him shook that bravado he was born with.


-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: SunCzarina] #275413
03/14/13 01:20 AM
03/14/13 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,575
Southwest, MI
Jane Jean Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jane Jean  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,575
Southwest, MI


Onyx
Karlo
Gambit
SweetClover3.17.94~11.24.08 Kacie 7.21.2005-5.01.2015
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Jane Jean] #275511
03/14/13 06:54 PM
03/14/13 06:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Outer Banks, NC
Hatterasser Offline
Addict
Hatterasser  Offline
Addict
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Outer Banks, NC
Quote:
It was never weak nerves that gave Morgan the urge to maim people, it was her fierce loyalty to me and the children. Never did anything that was uncalled for or I didn't understand in hindsight why she'd seen the need to be aggressive. A bit more aggressive than I like in a dog, less warning than I'd like but that was just her nature, she was a fierce bitch.


Jenn, I think that was part of Thor's reason for his fierceness as well. He had been left all alone from 3 months old to almost a year, food shoved at him as he remained tied to 6' chain out in the north 40. When he learned what love was (with me), his loyalty and protectiveness was to me and me only. Anything he 'perceived' as a threat to me (and a blade of grass blowing the wrong way could be part of that perception) he felt the need to react. No matter how much I tried to socialize him, his puppy-hood months of isolation, added to his inherent genetic weaknesses, were what ruled his behavior. He wasn't 'bad', he was just a product of bad breeding and horrid care during those important early months.


Diane...Freya's mom
If I weren't so damn healthy, I'd be sick...and I'm NOT sick.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear.
I Aear cân ven na mar
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Hatterasser] #275550
03/15/13 01:22 AM
03/15/13 01:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,160
West Bay RI
SunCzarina Offline
Pooh-Bah
SunCzarina  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,160
West Bay RI
That's the curse and the cure of a rescue dog. You don't know the parents are behind them so you don't know what genetics is throwing at you. Loyalty of a rescue like Thor or Morgan, I don't get that from Otto. I know he'd step up for my kids, he's told a few people in uncertain terms to back off his kids and with a face like his and his growl, he gets respect. Me he would probably let get stabbed to death with a garden rake.


-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #275553
03/15/13 01:27 AM
03/15/13 01:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 257
Fern Creek Ky
Deno Offline
Enthusiast
Deno  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 257
Fern Creek Ky
I was going to leave this alone, but I guess because of genetics I just can't help myself.

Is this genetic thing only applicable to dogs?

Or is it true throught out nature? Say humans for example.

If you were to talk about people like this, again, some might consider it bigoted.

I only read your first link, at least that guy understands pack leadership.

I am sure there must be dogs that are just messed up from the get go from all of you guys stories.

I guess I have just been lucky with all the dogs I have owned so far.

My new female pup Lexie is the most aggressive pup I have ever seen including Satan, my first male.

I guess it's a Checz thing, I hope she is not the exception to my good luck. I start training them on day one.

We will have had her for two weeks tomorrow and I think I already have her house broken.

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Deno] #275607
03/15/13 01:29 PM
03/15/13 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,061
Michigan, USA
Chris Wild Offline
Administrator... and Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
Chris Wild  Offline
Administrator... and Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,061
Michigan, USA
The higher the intelligence and reasoning skills, the greater the ability to move away from genetic predispositions. Humans can self analyze and make conscious choices when it comes to personality and behavior. Animals cannot so are more at the mercy of their genetics.

Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: Chris Wild] #275642
03/15/13 06:27 PM
03/15/13 06:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
I don't think it is bigoted to talk of temperament traits being inheritable in humans . It has been proven in studies that children of parents with addiction issues will have a greater risk of addiction themselves. There are probably dozens of personality traits that tend to get passed down from generation to generation. It is not something I have researched, but I know I have read about children of alcoholics being more susceptible to alcohol addiction themselves, just as a matter of how their brains are wired. Children of Alcoholics

An excerpt from link:

There is strong, scientific evidence that alcoholism tends to run in families. Children of alcoholics are more at risk for alcoholism and other drug abuse than children of non-alcoholics.

Children of alcoholics are four times more likely than non-COAs to develop alcoholism.

Genetic factors play a major role in the development of alcoholism. There is an expanding base of literature which strongly supports a heritable basis for alcoholism and a range of family influences that may direct the development of children of alcoholics.


Incidentally, I had to look up the definition of bigot to be sure I understood what you meant. From Merriam-Webster: "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

I don't think the word bigoted needs to come into play in this discussion at all. I am a bit confused as to why you would bring it up.

I am glad you are open to the possibility that perhaps you have just been very fortunate in having always owned dogs with good temperaments. That speaks well of how you choose a breeder and a puppy. Maybe I will ask you for advice when I am ready to find a breeder
wink


Leah
Re: It's all in how you raise them... [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #275647
03/15/13 08:36 PM
03/15/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,129
Fairfield, Ca.
Schnickle Fritz Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Schnickle Fritz  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,129
Fairfield, Ca.
Quote:
I don't think the word bigoted needs to come into play in this discussion at all. I am a bit confused as to why you would bring it up.
-- i was thinking this , too...


Have a great day!!!
NLS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Fritz vom Banach TR1 TT RN RA BN NW1 BH 10/10/09
Cuvee' d' la Maze ORT-BCA BH 01/14/11
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
Handler frustration
by middleofnowhere. 09/25/18 03:37 AM
Marshall Dillon is 2 yrs old!
by kaisersmom. 09/23/18 03:36 AM
Stories
by Shilohsmom. 09/21/18 12:03 AM
Looking for an answer, pos. food issue?
by middleofnowhere. 09/20/18 02:52 AM
Happy Birthday Z!
by Zisso. 09/16/18 02:50 PM
The day my dog tried to kill me
by Sylv. 09/14/18 08:20 PM
Harness
by Todd. 09/12/18 08:48 PM
But Bennie wasn't broken!
by PositiveDog. 09/07/18 10:43 PM
Flea & Tick preventative
by Shilohsmom. 09/07/18 04:08 AM
I'm Back
by Chey & The Herd. 09/04/18 08:07 PM
Help Support the Forum
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
East coast friends, please keep us posted
by PositiveDog. 09/13/18 08:27 PM
Kathy (Kayos Mod) could use us
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 09/04/18 01:34 PM
Happy Labor Day weekend
by Shilohsmom. 09/01/18 01:41 AM
Summer Produce/Winter YUM
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/30/18 04:46 PM
Punctuation Experts
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/25/18 07:39 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 105 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ArminDolphin, achilleas, Ruger0sasha, NurseBishop, Roguehk
2922 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums100
Topics20,536
Posts326,994
Members2,922
Most Online209
Jul 31st, 2018
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1