Then perhaps it's time to test what she said..that she would 'match' any other price I found online. Or I'll just ask her for the prescription to use on my own.

Thanks. Paper work that came with the container is for Soloxine. Container reads: Thyroxine tablet 0.8mg(Soloxine) (70 tablets).

Yeah, Lis, it does read 0.8. Silly me.

Oh dear just caught back up on this!

I have only had one dog that had thyroid issues and that was long ago. We gave human grade meds with her food. But I have taken thyroid meds for 25 years and recently was told take without food.

As for her food, Freya eats more than my very active Havoc. Kayos is 74 pounds and only eats 2 cups a day. You are over feeding her too. With the thyroid meds and reduced food you should see weight loss soon. Maybe a light exeercise program is good too.

I noticed Kayos's fur is getting thin on her sides last night while I was brushing her. Not over shedding just this. I need to watch this as it can be an early sign of hypothyroidism. I did not notice her fur being thin when I brushed her on Sunday.

I hope the meds help get her back on the road to being well again soon.

I just filled Chance’s prescription at our local Weis supermarket. This was the first time I got a script, but since I always get 120 pills at a time, the vet did not have enough on hand and gave me the script. I paid $13.40 for 120, which is about $.11 per pill.

Also, in regard to the question of food vs. empty stomach, I found the following information. The preference is on an empty stomach, but if this is a problem, giving the pill with food is fine, as long as you are consistent. Meaning – don’t give the medicine on an empty stomach one day and then with food the next.

Also, if giving with food, a test should be taken again roughly 2 months later to make sure that if there is absorption with the food, the dosage is still sufficient to control the condition.

Food vs. Empty Stomach

For the testing, how many vets are testing both Free T4 and Free T3? The only one I know of is Dodds, though I'm sure some others are out there. Most run the Total T4, which doesn't test this, and only a very small percentage will run a Free T3. In fact, Idexx doesn't even have a decent panel to do this! (Sorry, but this is a pet peeve, since Max was a poor converter.)

In summer, when I'm not drinking as much coffee as during the school year, I take less thyroid meds, and I do separate the coffee and the thyroid. It's weird, but it was worth it to me to get up, give the dogs their meds, then get ready myself, and then feed the dogs. Similar for the evening dose (Diane, that .8 is twice or once a day?).

I don't know what test Chance gets, but his result was a 3.4, which the vet said was very good? He is on .8 2x/day.

Different labs have different normals. Idexx's therapeutic range is about 2.5 - 5.0, so if that's the lab that was used, then 3.4 is a good value.

I will venture to guess, and it's just a guess, for most dogs, particularly if they are not young, the total T4 ranges work just fine. But there are some dogs for which it doesn't, and without following the values a bit, you really don't know which ones they are. For example, I know that Indy's free T4 followed her total T4 pretty close. With Max, his free was always lower than his total, and his T3 was always even lower. I was fine using the standard test for Indy. For Max, it really wasn't sufficient.

I guess the bottom line is if the dog is doing well, that's the biggest evidence of all?

Why did it take the Michigan Test to detect it 6 years ago, but now an office test is okay to measure it?


That's pretty much how I feel too, but I really should be more knowledgeable about his testing. I know the type of test and/or results are not on my billing. The next day, I just receive a phone call from the vet that his level is fine and she gives me a number.

He is doing great, BTW.

A couple of reasons.

In young dogs, you want to measure the TgAA to see if there is autoimmune involvement. That has to be done at a special lab and really only has to be done once. In older dogs, the TgAA is much less useful, since it decreases as the thyroid dies, even if there is still an autoimmune process going on (the AI here wiLl be lifelong). (As a side note, in humans, Hashimotos is typical found using TPO antibodies, which they don't measure in dogs. I found one abstract that found TPO anti-bodies in a dog, but that's all, so maybe there is another class of AI thyroiditis in dogs that we haven't yet found.)

To really look at the thyroid, they want those Free values (T3 and T4), so they should order a whole panel. They often mistakenly put a lot of stock in the TSH value, which, in canines, can give a misleading value in approximately 30% of cases, so is pretty useless in general. However, some vet schools are teaching in a way that puts a high value on the TSH, and, logically, when you have a number that you absolutely can't trust in 30% of the cases, and you have *no idea which 30%*, this makes absolutely no sense to me

So diagnosing really should have a complete panel, and someone that knows how to read it, and someone that understands that thyroids don't just up and die, it's a process that evolves over time.

Monitoring I think they have all messed up, since most vets run a total T4 only, which, IMO, is wholly inadequate in a large number of dogs, but that is what they are taught, so they do it.

Oops, soory so many words! Thyroid stuff frustrates me, because it's really easy to mess it up, and that commonly happens!

Thanks, Lisa - I'm glad you understand it!!

I think (unfortunately, as you pointed out) I have to stick with my gut feeling when something goes wrong. That's how we found it the first time. First test - "he's fine", but I knew he wasn't. Michigan test - "whoops, he has a problem."

I remember what he looked like and how he acted before, so at least I think I will have some clues if things go downhill.

(Getting back on track): Diane, how is Freya doing? Any noticeable difference?

Yes, how is she doing?

Okay, she has had a follow-up blood test (T4 only as that's what they DO, right Lisa? *smiles*) but phone call from vet said there was some improvement. I wish she had given me the numerical factor but guess I'll have to call her back for that. It was 5 (should have been minimum 8) originally.

She is upping her meds to one and a half tablets (each one is 0.8) for the next month and suggesting she take them withOUT food. Now I've heard here and elsewhere that one should give them 'with food' and 'without food' and I've never been certain what I should do, though Lisa pointed out whichever way you choose, it should be consistent. I have been giving with food (as it's most convenient for me) and have been consistent about that. Looks like now I should up the ante and do it as two separate events.

So my question is.....how long between giving the med and feeding should it be? Half an hour? An hour? Two? I will have to call vet on Monday and ask her what her thoughts on it are, but interested in all of yours as well.

She also sent down a prescription of 120 pills (which I will have to pay for at her rate, I guess) so no chance this time for asking for a scrip of my own.

As for Freya, she's actually showing mild improvement already. She lost a whole two pounds. *laughing* Only 35 to 40 more to go. But seriously, she does seem to be less lethargic as well, which is definitely an improvement. And her skin ailments are cleared up too.

Oh, that's good news about Freya feeling better. Yay, Freya!!

That is good news. I wait about an hour after I take my thyroid meds but I do not know what the vet will say.

Glad she is showing signs of improvement! Weight loss is slow.

Any improvement is great news. I hope she continues to feel better and lose slowly.

I think the normal recommendation is to give it without food, because it absorps into the system better.

It can take a few months to "dial in" the correct dosage. With Rica, I think it took 3-4 months to get the right dosage. After that I usually had her checked annually, just to be sure we were still in a good range.

Glad to hear that she is improving.

I was told to take mine without food and wait an hour to eat. Also some things can cause it to be less well absorbed (and I cannot remember exactly what those were - maybe iron...).

Then, I look on Dr. Dodd's site www.hemopet.org and the FAQs and see that you should really split the dose and take am and pm to get better coverage. My doctor did not tell me that! I think that's a good idea.

The pills I get make me kind of nauseous.

I am glad she's doing better!

One hour before or 3 hours after a meal, 2x day, according to Dodds. I think protein is what may alter it's effectiveness.

I believe it's the minerals that interfere with absorption (calcium, iron, magnesium, etc., as well as things like estrogen). I've always advocated away from food!

It's great that she is feeling better!

At 120 pounds, she should be getting 1.2 twice a day, or just under that. For example, Max's ideal dose at 85 lbs was .8 twice a day. The problem is, as she starts loosing weight, that dose will be too high, so monitoring and adjusting as the weight is lost will be important. Once you get to a standard maintenance dose, then for sure ask for a prescription.

Sounds like all is headed in the right direction!