German Shepherd Home
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #248755
08/21/12 09:23 PM
08/21/12 09:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Aww, sorry to hear that he can't do the agility any more. frown


Leah
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #248781
08/22/12 01:05 AM
08/22/12 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Kayos
Off and on lameness. He is getting his Joint Health and Arnica now and just resting him. I think he is done with agility. Too much strain on his shoulders.

I'm so sorry frown

Has he ever had a chiropractic adjustment? I should know that, I know, just can't remember.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #248834
08/22/12 09:08 AM
08/22/12 09:08 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
frown


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: bianca] #249094
08/23/12 08:45 PM
08/23/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Update!

Stopped at vets to pick up Pred for cat and got the tick panel results. Vet was surprised - Havoc is positive for Erlichiosis. It is a low positive but positive nonetheless and he is on Doxy for 30 days.

We almost opted not to run it as his other blood work was perfect. Apparently, the CBC may indicate possible tick disease. In Havoc's CBC was entirely normal. This may be old, he may have had it for awhile. I don't know - just glad we did the panel. Joe and i kind of looked at each other and saif should we? And then said yes we need to know for sure and what the heck, the bill was already out of sight what is $150 more?


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #249099
08/23/12 10:22 PM
08/23/12 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
This does not surprise me for some reason.

Kathy, do you have a copy of the bloodwork? If you're willing to share, I would be interested in seeing it.

If this is an old infection in particular, I would follow more aggressive treatment.

This may be affecting his behaviour.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #249101
08/23/12 10:54 PM
08/23/12 10:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
I do have it but my scanner is persnickity. I may have to just right it out for you after dinner.

I thought the same thing about his behavior. I do believe this may be an old infection.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #249109
08/24/12 12:08 AM
08/24/12 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Sometimes you can take a picture with your cell and send it to your email to your computer and upload, if you can't upload directly from the phone.

Would also be interested in weight and dosage.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #249122
08/24/12 01:32 AM
08/24/12 01:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
K. I can give that a try. I just came in from outside exercising dogs and going to bed. Have to work tomorrow but I might take it to work with me. It will be a quiet day at the office anyway.

He is getting 4 a day and weighs 81 pounds. Not sure what strenght the capsule is.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #249141
08/24/12 03:02 AM
08/24/12 03:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
I sure am glad that this showed up on the test and that you ran that test!

The dose is the conservative dose. Some vets underdose even the conservative dose.

Will jot some notes for your consideration a bit later.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #249157
08/24/12 05:28 AM
08/24/12 05:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
A few notes....many things which you probably know, so forgive me if I repeat.

The aggressive dose used by the "tick vets" on the list and others is twice the dosage for twice as long, particularly for long standing infections. The goal is to reduce the chance of it flaring up, as this is an infection of the bone marrow and the blood vessels themselves, which can be particularly stubborn. Doxy in higher doses kills the organisms. At the conservative dose will keep them from multiplying and will depend on the competency of the immune system more than with the higher doses. Of course, doxy always with food, and if there are signs of acidity, you can take steps to mitigate that.

GSDs are particularly susceptible to the chronic form of ehrlichia by nature of their immune systems frown Infection is a process that, once past the initial stage, can take years to show up in the bloodwork. Since there is nothing glaring in the bloodwork, it's good that it's not severely advanced. Infection *and* treatment is hard on the liver, liver support is always recommended when treatment is started. Of course, probiotics.

As a matter of preference, I like to have something to monitor what is going on. Not just for this round, but assume that you are in this for longer than 30 days. You want to be able to check in in and see how his body is doing, even years after treatment has ended. There is no perfect way to do this. Two tools available to you would be titers, the type that SLEACHY has been using with Tooz, through Protatek, is the tick list preference (I believe that Tooz's are run yearly, you can always ask), and also regular bloodwork. I would consider running bloodwork (blood counts and liver values, I just run a panel since it's more cost effective) before stopping the doxy, and then every 2-3 months after treatment for a few times, then every 6 months for a few times and go from there. This is not only to look signs of recurrence or active disease, but to establish baselines for if there are future problems. This is one reason I'd like to see the bloodwork, just looking for something that would allow you to monitor and evaluate treatment. There was someone on the old forum that knew their dog's Anaplasmosis was flaring when their dog started losing hair on their toes - weird, huh?

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 08/24/12 05:33 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #249183
08/24/12 11:41 AM
08/24/12 11:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,439
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,439
Massachusetts
Something else to add, is that tick disease affects the mood of the dog in some cases, too. Grimm was irritable when he had ehlichia and anaplasma. Grimm has a normally very sunny disposition! My sense was that he had a headache, as he seemed less happy about having his head petted-- and his ears were clean and fine. It did take about 1 week on the Doxy before I saw his mood return to silly-happy.

Just thinkin' about Havoc and Lydi. You've already done beautifully and have seen improvement in their situation, but considering treatment for TBD can help Havoc feel better and possibly feel more tolerant soon. crossedfingers


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Braverhund] #249202
08/24/12 12:57 PM
08/24/12 12:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
I hope these are readable. I had to take a picture and then do a screen capture to get them to rotate, everytime I try to rotate an image on my work computer it won't let me save.

Vet said ignore the platelets, almost impossible to get accurate platelet count.





Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #249204
08/24/12 01:17 PM
08/24/12 01:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Actually looking at this again, although all the liver values are in the normal range they are either low normal or high normal.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: Kayos] #249274
08/24/12 07:36 PM
08/24/12 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
I had a long reply typed on my tiny phone window and it shut down and I lost it. Hate that!!!


Originally Posted By: Kayos
Vet said ignore the platelets, almost impossible to get accurate platelet count.

That's a machine count, and an estimate, not as accurate as a hand count, but it's a ballpark figure. AND it's a clue that something was wrong. They aren't a smidgen low, nor are they clumped. One hallmark of Ehrlichia is low platelets, so expect that number to change. Also, dogs with Ehrlichia have a protein in their blood which will cause it to clump, so the next draw may come back as clumped.

The MPV is roughly the size of the platelets (average volume), and large platelets are the new ones. That MPV tending to the high end I believe is showing that the body has been making new platelets (to replace the ones lost).

The platelets will be important for you to monitor. The machine count will never be "accurate", but can still be interpreted. The labs I've used didn't have the MPV, so it will be interesting to see how that changes, I don't have a much experience with the MPV, Idexx just notes "LARGE" in their platelet comments after the slide has been reviewed.

The low liver values are great news! The elevated GGT alone I do not know - it is common in Ehrlichia for the GGT and the ALT to be elevated, perhaps you caught it at just the right time! I always recommend starting liver support with therapy, many dogs on the tick list have had rising liver enzymes once the doxy has started and there is die off.

You may see him feeling much better in just a matter of days crossedfingers


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc is Not Right [Re: MaxaLisa] #249280
08/24/12 08:22 PM
08/24/12 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Cool!!!! I thought just the opposite with the liver values but that shows you I do not know squat.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
Looking for an answer, pos. food issue?
by middleofnowhere. 09/20/18 02:52 AM
Happy Birthday Z!
by Zisso. 09/16/18 02:50 PM
The day my dog tried to kill me
by Sylv. 09/14/18 08:20 PM
Harness
by Todd. 09/12/18 08:48 PM
But Bennie wasn't broken!
by PositiveDog. 09/07/18 10:43 PM
Flea & Tick preventative
by Shilohsmom. 09/07/18 04:08 AM
I'm Back
by Chey & The Herd. 09/04/18 08:07 PM
September 2018 Photo Contest Entries
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 09/04/18 01:53 PM
Comments for September 2018 Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 09/04/18 01:50 PM
My remaining living room furniture
by Shilohsmom. 09/04/18 03:48 AM
Help Support the Forum
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
East coast friends, please keep us posted
by PositiveDog. 09/13/18 08:27 PM
Kathy (Kayos Mod) could use us
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 09/04/18 01:34 PM
Happy Labor Day weekend
by Shilohsmom. 09/01/18 01:41 AM
Summer Produce/Winter YUM
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/30/18 04:46 PM
Punctuation Experts
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/25/18 07:39 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 80 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
achilleas, Ruger0sasha, NurseBishop, Roguehk, Sydney
2921 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums100
Topics20,529
Posts326,936
Members2,921
Most Online209
Jul 31st, 2018
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1