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Havoc's Feet? #234177
06/04/12 02:15 PM
06/04/12 02:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Been doing agility with Havoc a long time and we have had a lot of problems dropping bars. We have worked and worked and worked on this. We have a UKC title but so far have NQ'd in AKC due to dropped bars. I decided to run him in preferred with lower jumps and it did not help.

It is not the height of the jump but the jumping style. Or is it?

I have the good fortune to be given the opportunity for occassional private lessons with Lori Michaels from All Star Agility in kansas. She comes down to Tulsa 3 or 4 times a year. She has had MANY great ideas for Havoc and I credit her with helping us work through the grabbing my arms problem.

We had two lessons yesterday with Lori and we worked on bars. She had many more ideas too in addition to some she has given me in the past so I have some more things to try.

BUT...... she watched and watched and said he acts like he does not notice he is hitting the bar. She added that it may not be large enough for him to notice the ticking as he hits it. He can knock an entire jump over and not really notice he has hit it.

Between lessons I took his feet and pinched him between his pads, no response. I pinched the top of his foot, no response. Havoc has limited feeling in his feet. He not not know he is hitting the bar because he may not be able to feel it. I know when he is working in very high drive at a trial he may not feel it as he is aroused. But he was pretty calm yesterday, in fact Lori remarked that he is showing much maturity than he had when she saw him last November.

What is up with the feet? Two theories:

1. Early stage DM (please NO!!).

2. Damaged nerves. He has had many yeast infections due to allergies. He is very allergic to clover and what field does not have clover? Despite me cleaning his feet he still licks and chews them. Has he damaged the nerves?

This is so odd and we all talked about it yesterday and scratched our heads.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234256
06/04/12 06:53 PM
06/04/12 06:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
This is a bit disturbing! I'm sorry!

You know me, I will recommend a K9 chiro for an evaluation, to see if the back is contributiong at all. www.avcadoctors.com

I know that alph-lipoic acid is used by diabetecs not only to help maintain blood sugar control, but to keep foot nerve problems away. I used it in Indy, who had a neuromuscular problem, and she felt much better when I added it. Maybe something to look into?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: MaxaLisa] #234258
06/04/12 06:57 PM
06/04/12 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,895
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,895
Wisconsin
Kathy, I pinched the top of Cheyenne's foot to check her response there was none. I would think a better test is to have some one else test his reaction. I know Chey didn't react because it was me doing it and accepts things I do to her.

Now if I took a foreign object and touch the top of her foot I get more of a reaction than I do with my hands.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #234268
06/04/12 07:29 PM
06/04/12 07:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Good idea Val.

My first culprit would be nerve damage from chewing his feet but DM scares the crap out of me and my heart skipped a beat.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234275
06/04/12 08:03 PM
06/04/12 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Just the back feet or the front too?

Good idea about having someone else check too, Max wouldn't react when I messed with his feet.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234276
06/04/12 08:03 PM
06/04/12 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,478
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,478
New Milford, CT
Kathy,

No suggestions, but I'm with you - DM is scary.

I'd much rather deal with something else.

hugging

Last edited by Woodreb; 06/04/12 08:09 PM.

Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Woodreb] #234290
06/04/12 09:21 PM
06/04/12 09:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Just the back feet.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234331
06/05/12 12:19 AM
06/05/12 12:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 313
GSD07 Offline
Enthusiast
GSD07  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 313
Kathy, I just went and pinched the top of Anton's foot and got no reaction. Then I went and started tickling him in between his toes (back paw) from underneath, and he spread his paw wide so he felt it, but he didn't move or jerked his leg or anything. I think they are so used to us touching their paws that if the paws don't hurt they do not react.

Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234357
06/05/12 03:15 AM
06/05/12 03:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Kayos
Just the back feet.

Well, that doesn't rule anything out.

Hopefully this is mainly because he is just well "foot socialized".


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: MaxaLisa] #234362
06/05/12 03:28 AM
06/05/12 03:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
I just did the same pinch test on Rafi and the only response I got was a look that said, "I'm trying to sleep Mom, do you mind leaving me alone?"

I agree with others that it may be because he is used to you touching their feet.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: BowWowMeow] #234451
06/05/12 03:23 PM
06/05/12 03:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
I hope that is the case with the feet! I would love a reason for the bar dropping but not a reason that is terrifying like DM.

Thanks all.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234499
06/05/12 05:19 PM
06/05/12 05:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
Barb E Offline
Pooh-Bah
Barb E  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
I had a horse that it seemed just didn't care about dropping rails when jumping.
He'd drop his back legs just a touch when going over and down would come the rail.

Because it was all for fun and I wasn't competing I didn't take any measures to try to correct it, but when I had my mare later asked my trainer about it.
She said it would be impossible for her to say for sure without seeing him jump (I had sold him by this time) if it was his jumping style related to conformation or if it was just that he really didn't care.

She told me she had a mare that she was able to determine that it wasn't conformation based and so she put a heavier rail on deeper cups for a few rounds so the mare really knew she had hit something. She said the mare had some dropped rails after that (as all horses will) but no longer consistently dropped the rails.


Dante - March 8, 2004 - May 06, 2017
Kaos von Wolfstraum - Oct 31, 2011

My Blog: https://barbrambling.wordpress.com/
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Barb E] #234507
06/05/12 05:39 PM
06/05/12 05:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Kayos Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline OP

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,674
Albuquerque, NM
Barb this is one of the suggestions Lori had for us too. She wanted me to fill bars with sand, slide the jump bars into bigger PVC, and put a towl over the bars. He is not hitting solid wall jumps or the tire.

I got my ladder out last night to do ladder work and rear end work with him and although I did lots of this with him when he was apup he seems to have forgot this. He did pick it up fast again tho so I am hopeful still.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DJ,HT,TKN,TC,CGCU 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Havoc's Feet? [Re: Kayos] #234571
06/05/12 11:04 PM
06/05/12 11:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
There's a TTouch wrap, using an ACE bandage, that wraps around the hind legs to increase hind leg and body awareness. Wonder if something like that would help. It helped Indy.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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