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Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: shepnterrier] #233535
05/31/12 06:03 PM
05/31/12 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
I'm sorry it's another week frown

I didn't realize you were moving I think....have to go find that thread......

If they don't stop whatever is causing the draining, how can they be confident that the draining will stop? Does that make sense?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: MaxaLisa] #233541
05/31/12 06:16 PM
05/31/12 06:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
I understand what Lisa is saying: if they are still draining and they remove the drains then won't the elbows fill up with fluid again?

I'm sorry this is so frustrating for you and for your poor boy. I sure hope they can figure this out so he can be a normal doggy again and your life can be a little less stressful. hugging


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: BowWowMeow] #233690
06/01/12 10:35 AM
06/01/12 10:35 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you all again hugging

Today we were out for a couple of hours so got home and he had removed the top part and was licking the drains sick So I removed the old dressing and there was a lot (to me) of icky black looking stuff on the gauze. I finally managed to re-bandage (he does not like this at all frown ) and called the vet.

She said that usually when they put drains in for an abscess etc the fluid dries up within a week so the drains come out. But with him they are playing it by ear so to speak. She said the longer they stay in, the more chance of infection and also more importantly fibrosis (sp) and they will be harder to remove. She did say the literature states they can remain in place for up to 4 weeks maximum.

So I really don't know, just have to see how it goes I guess but to my untrained eye, it looked like a lot of yuckies for 24 hours (I took a photo if anyone wants to see it!).

Sarah, thank you. I put the Doggleggs back on him after re bandaging and a little bit later I watched him try and pull apart the 2 velcro leg straps! So I've said to Brad, until this is resolved he will have to come with us into town etc so I can keep an eye on the smarty pants!

Today with his red wrap and Doggleggs



Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: bianca] #233694
06/01/12 11:28 AM
06/01/12 11:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,746
Bianca,

I really really am sorry that Cooper (and you and Brad) have to go through all this, and even so with the outcome uncertain.

But how I do love the pictures of your ailing puppy.

all of you take care,
MJ

Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Mary Jane] #233725
06/01/12 03:22 PM
06/01/12 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Oh geez... feelingblue


Leah
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma] #233731
06/01/12 03:32 PM
06/01/12 03:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 817
Northwest OH
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand
kaisersmom  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 817
Northwest OH
Quote:
If they don't stop whatever is causing the draining, how can they be confident that the draining will stop? Does that make sense?


That's what I was thinking too - fluid on the elbow is different from an abscess. The abscess drains and eventually shrinks and goes away. But the body keeps producing the fluid that's going into the bursa or whatever at the elbow so I don't understand how putting drains in it is going to stop it either. Seems to me the drains would just continually be putting out the fluid as quick as the body makes it.

I sure don't have any answers, but hopefully they can get to the bottom of this somehow!!


Pat

Marshall Dillon - 20 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: kaisersmom] #233743
06/01/12 04:18 PM
06/01/12 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
Me, I would be experimenting with all sorts of things. One thing, since it may be preventative anyway, would be antibiotics. The other is something to stop an inflammatory process in the body and slow down that immune system reaction.

I would feel a lot better if that fluid was trickling less and less, and the drains weren't getting ucky.

I'm so sorry this won't just stop!

hugging


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: MaxaLisa] #233842
06/02/12 03:50 AM
06/02/12 03:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Most of the sites don't recommend draining from what I can see - the fluid is there to protect the joint from whatever is causing the problem so it will keep forming while the problem exists, even if the body is only reacting to what it thinks is a problem even if in reality an issue is very minor.


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Qyn] #233843
06/02/12 04:01 AM
06/02/12 04:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 817
Northwest OH
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand
kaisersmom  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 817
Northwest OH
I'm not sure if I should say anything or not, but here goes:

I was at a fundraiser this evening and our vet sat at our table. I asked for his opinion about Cooper's elbow. He said he would not have advised putting the drains in as they will just keep draining fluid as long as his body keeps making it, and by putting the drains in, they're making it easier for various germs to get into the joint and set up an infection.

I asked what can be done about elbow hygromas, and he said there really isn't a lot that can be done. A pressure type of bandage can reduce the swelling for awhile, but he said there really isn't a cure. He said they're mostly caused from a dog laying down hard on the elbow or elbows, and sometimes having the dog wear a pad on the elbow to cushion it will reduce the size of the hygroma somewhat. He said they're very difficult to deal with once they're there. frown


Pat

Marshall Dillon - 20 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: kaisersmom] #233844
06/02/12 04:33 AM
06/02/12 04:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
I know you are doing the absolute best you can for him, Bianca. hugging We're all trying to think outside the box. What are your other options where you are right now? Are there any acupuncturists around? Acupuncture is AMAZING for this type of thing. I had idiopathic swelling on my ankle and it is the only thing that got rid of it.

If you can find an acupuncturist who really knows their stuff they could inject something like Traumeel directly into the site. My new vet said that they inject Zeel for arthritis and it works really well to reduce inflammation and pain.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: BowWowMeow] #233852
06/02/12 05:32 AM
06/02/12 05:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
I agree with Ruth, it must be so difficult when you are giving him the best, and it just isn't working the way it's supposed to.

I did some googling.....you may have seen these.....I'm thinking that he never stayed still enough to ice?

alternatives for hygroma:
http://www.veterinariaholistica.net/if_case_reports.html
http://med-vetacupuncture.org/english/articles/traumeel.html


Appears a number of folks have used DMSO, also epsom salts, even a steroid injection - just lots of anecdotal stories that might give you an idea of some options to try:
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/elbow_hygromas_bursas.htm
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=28491&pagen=1
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://dolforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16757

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vets-corner/37869-elbow-hygromas.html
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=329214
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/954969-elbow-hygroma-dog.html (do you know anyone that knows pranic healing???)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1150517
http://www.worldmastiffforum.com/post?id=3563238 (last post was informative)
http://mastiffmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3121199

I wonder if he would sleep on an air bed, they are pretty cool if you don't use a cover?

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 06/02/12 05:33 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: MaxaLisa] #233868
06/02/12 09:41 AM
06/02/12 09:41 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Gosh thank you all so much ladies hugging I admit I have been close to tears all day today, it is obviously bothering him. I re=dressed it and to me, it looks bloody awful. There is swelling probably bigger than a golf ball still.

I think I will call on Monday and see if they can just take them out asap as I really don't think they are making any or a significant difference. Other than he is beyond sensitive when he sees me coming with the bag of supplies.

The Dogleggs, well I can' seem to fit them right. They are firm and fit well when standing but when he is lying down, they gap at the elbow and he licks and removes the wrap. I stopped and got more dressings from the horse supply shop today and the lady remembered me. She suggested a loose hair tie over the gaping parts. I am drying the dogleggs out at the moment (wet from him licking) and then will try that.

Pat, I do appreciate you taking the time to ask. That is so kind of you thank you hugging It's so hard to know what to do as 5 vets (2 specialists) have said that the drains were the second step after the needle aspiration.

I think I may see what happens once the drains are removed and then ask for a referral. It's a shame that the nearest specialists are in the city (4 hour drive each way) but so be it.

Ruth, thank you I admit I haven't checked yet but I will phone around Monday morning. I have to try everything now.

Lisa, once again thank you so much for taking the trouble to provide all those links. I will read through them a bit later.

Thank you all again and sorry for the ongoing novel hugging

Today, back to green.



Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: bianca] #233873
06/02/12 10:56 AM
06/02/12 10:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Good_Karma Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Good_Karma  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,814
Belfast, NY
Just hugging. And more hugging


Leah
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma] #233876
06/02/12 11:23 AM
06/02/12 11:23 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Thank you Leah hugging

I've just read the above links and they all say not to drain them frown But his last one was massive (95mls of fluid) so I don't think I could have left it?

I see a few of the links mention DMSO? What is that? I have some Ichthammol ointment which is also mentioned so I could try that once the skin has healed after drain removal.

Off to google holistic vets in this hick town.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Help! How do I bandage an elbow properly? [Re: Good_Karma] #233878
06/02/12 12:04 PM
06/02/12 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Bianca, everyone knows you only have Cooper's best interest at heart - he and Molly could not have a better owner. Plus, it is all too easy for any of us to get on the internet and search for answers or alternative treatments when it seems Cooper is not getting better but that is because we care about Cooper and we care about you - but only you and your vets are there on the spot so no doubt have a better viewpoint.

Having had a scientific background, I probably often tend to see and write things clinically first but I certainly don't mean to be as critical as I can appear to be and that is one reason why I choose not to post in certain threads - sorry if anything I have said has upset you. hugging


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
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