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Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #205719
01/15/12 02:53 PM
01/15/12 02:53 PM
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Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
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Originally Posted By: Schnickle Fritz
Quote:
a dog that is afraid of every thing as the OP stated is not a dog that I would want protecting me.
a 20 ms old gsd in not mature...


At 6 months old you can get a pretty good gauge of the stability of a dog's nerve. At 24 - 36 months the dog isn't going become a more solid nerved dog. At 20 months old and afraid of everything IMHO is not a strong nerved dog. Training will benefit the OP and the dog, but you can't fix poor nerve. You can teach a dog under less amounts of pressure to respond a certain way, but when more pressure is applied the dog will always revert to genetics. This is why nervy dogs can be titled, trainers will spend day in and day out training the dog, raising the bar and training more. Inside the ring the dog is a super star outside the ring the dog is a nut bag.

Like I said learning to become a good leader will help, training will help, but as far as a protection dog, a dog that is fear aggressive (if that is what the OP's dog is) is a liability because under pressure he will always revert back to genetics.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #205840
01/16/12 03:37 AM
01/16/12 03:37 AM
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Fairfield, Ca.
Schnickle Fritz Offline
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oddly i beleieve that thier are gsd lines that mature late. may or may not be the posters dog. i think that what you deem nervymay be immaturity


Have a great day!!!
NLS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Fritz vom Banach TR1 TT RN RA BN NW1 BH 10/10/09
Cuvee' d' la Maze ORT-BCA BH 01/14/11
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Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #205846
01/16/12 04:01 AM
01/16/12 04:01 AM
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GrandJan Offline
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Im sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is the dog neutered? If so, and was at a young age I would also say this dog has not fully matured yet and some of his hyper-nervousness may smooth out over time. Constant calm leadership, firm discipline and dedicated training will go a long way toward settling this dog down.


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: GrandJan] #205848
01/16/12 04:08 AM
01/16/12 04:08 AM
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Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
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Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
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I am not saying a 20 month old is fully mature, there is also that possible late fear period that happens. I think the OP and family would benefit from a good trainer.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: GrandJan] #205904
01/16/12 04:37 PM
01/16/12 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 213
Tennessee
DarkEyes Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrandJan
Im sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is the dog neutered? If so, and was at a young age I would also say this dog has not fully matured yet and some of his hyper-nervousness may smooth out over time. Constant calm leadership, firm discipline and dedicated training will go a long way toward settling this dog down.


headbang I forgot about the neutering part. I thought a dog tends to be more alert and reactive when not neutered? I know that neutering can curb a dog's behavior quite a bit...


Abbey: 10 years old German Shepherd
Suki: 10 years old Calico kitty
Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #205914
01/16/12 05:32 PM
01/16/12 05:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Schnickle Fritz
Quote:
I even spoke with a trainer the other day who will be training him


you MUST go YOUR dog the training to be effective. your trainer will be trainin gyou to train the dog! no matter how good a trainer is, if you do not know what to do once the dog comes home, the dog reverts back to his previous habits because there is no one to reenforce the desired behaviour. i find training FUN. i hope you do , too!


When I do training with him i do find it fun, especially when I am playing hide and seek with either treats or just one of his toys. he likes that!

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #205915
01/16/12 05:34 PM
01/16/12 05:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Schnickle Fritz
i know you have mentioned you wanted the dog for protection. just bbecause you become the leader does NOT MEAN IN ANY WAY that your dog will not protect you. when he is mature, you will find he will have your back (and your wife's and beautiful daughters, too!) in situations when he is needed .


That is what a lot of people say to as he matures his attitude will change and be more protective. I guess I was kind of waiting to see that at an early age. I do see some moments where his attutide is a lot different than when he was younger.

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #205916
01/16/12 05:37 PM
01/16/12 05:37 PM
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jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Schnickle Fritz, a dog that is afraid of every thing as the OP stated is not a dog that I would want protecting me. But in a way they do have their own value as a deterrent, more people were afraid of my DeeDee (rip) when she was on her home turf than Lakota (rip) or Cheyenne who I know would protect me. DeeDee was all bark bark, I will scare you off before you get to close. That can be a good deterrent.

Raya is my alerter, she is very alert to noises, she can tell me when a vehicle pulls off the road and into our driveway and never see them. But the cats can play on the deck and she never makes a peep.

So a deterrent in some cases can be just as good as a dog that isn't ready or capable of doing real protection.



I agree - my dog is a great deterrent. He could be fast asleep but he knows when someone is coming close to my driveway and he will start off by growling and then will come the loud deep bark when he senses someone is coming up the walk path (like the pizza guy). The other day he was going nuts and I had to put him on the back porch.

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: MaxaLisa] #205918
01/16/12 05:40 PM
01/16/12 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
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jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I haven't gone back and read everything....

I "get" the thing about the ears. With Indy (non-GSD), it was the opposite, I was really bummed when one went up, because I really like her ears down.

The training thing, I thing, I think that's been covered. I also agree, as a general rule, you need to train with your dog, and not send your dog to training. HOWEVER, I think it's MORE important for a dog that is afraid.

First, I don't trust people with my dogs. I have seen very bad things happen when dogs have been sent away to training. It might not be terrible, but what you can't see, you can't control.

Second, assuming everything is perfect with the trainer that you have chosen, for a dog that has fears, all the reasons that folks mentioned above hold, but even moreso. Training *with your dog* will develop the trust that your needs to have you in you so that the dog can start letting go of that fear.

For a fearful dog, I would make sure you are not feeding a food with corn or sorghum or by-products, would add some fish oil if it's tolerated, would go on the most minimum vaccination schedule that you can get away with, would watch for tick diseases and for future signs of hypothyroidism.


Thank you -

I probably did not mention it right but I wouldn't be sending my dog away for training, both my wife and I would be training with him together. I would never just send him away for training. Some people do that but I couldn't. I do understand the importance of being with your dog when he is training.

The last comment you made about making sure I'm feeding my dog the right kind of foods, what does that have to do with being fearful - out of curiosity?

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: DarkEyes] #205922
01/16/12 05:47 PM
01/16/12 05:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: DarkEyes


With that in mind, I'd like to make a suggestion to you. When your dog goes into fear aggression... watch his body language. And pay attention to your own body image. If your shoulders tense up, making you appear bigger, he's going to take that as a defense mode. You're reacting to a threat, so he will react too. If your hand is clenching to the leash- that's tension. If the leach line is tight and not loose- that is also tension. Tension builds aggression and you'll need to learn how to make yourself relax. Take deep breaths. Dogs can read us like an open book if we're not careful about the image we are exhibiting. If you're worried about something that will trigger aggression, such as a dog coming close, remain calm. Talk to him, have him lay down. If you seem calm and not worried, that will help the dog calm down. He'll probably have his hair stick up, but that's ok. Calm him down and keep talking to him.


You know that makes sense what you said. I read that somewhere but never put it into practice - thanks.

I should be more aware of what I'm doing during a particular situation than my dog.

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: GrandJan] #205925
01/16/12 05:51 PM
01/16/12 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: GrandJan
Im sorry if I missed this somewhere, but is the dog neutered? If so, and was at a young age I would also say this dog has not fully matured yet and some of his hyper-nervousness may smooth out over time. Constant calm leadership, firm discipline and dedicated training will go a long way toward settling this dog down.


Hi - no he is not neutered. I mean from the posts that I have read, within this one and others, he is not matured yet. But I do agree heavily that with training it may cure some of the problems he has.

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: jeasy02] #205939
01/16/12 06:58 PM
01/16/12 06:58 PM
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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: jeasy02
...
I probably did not mention it right but I wouldn't be sending my dog away for training, both my wife and I would be training with him together. I would never just send him away for training. Some people do that but I couldn't. I do understand the importance of being with your dog when he is training.

The last comment you made about making sure I'm feeding my dog the right kind of foods, what does that have to do with being fearful - out of curiosity?


Oh yay, glad to hear that your wife will be trainig with him smile

Dogs can have funny reactions to foods. I know when I was training, hyper and unfocesed dogs often changed dramatically when we changed the food to one following the above guidelines. I also think that some of these underlying food sensitivies can affect behaviour. Say a dog is allergic to chicken. Say his stomach is always a bit queasy, or it gives him a headache. That dog really isn't going to be functioning at his best. Part of the nervous system lives in the gut. My old girl, with probiotics and l-glutamine (gut rehab) would be a different dog once she felt better. She was fearful most of her life, and it was vaccine induced frown

So, when you have a dog with any behaviour problem, taking care of the gut is really important. Many GSDs have such sensitive digestive systems, it might even be more important for a GSD?

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 01/16/12 07:03 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
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Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: MaxaLisa] #205945
01/16/12 07:30 PM
01/16/12 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
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jeasy02 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
Originally Posted By: jeasy02
...
I probably did not mention it right but I wouldn't be sending my dog away for training, both my wife and I would be training with him together. I would never just send him away for training. Some people do that but I couldn't. I do understand the importance of being with your dog when he is training.

The last comment you made about making sure I'm feeding my dog the right kind of foods, what does that have to do with being fearful - out of curiosity?


Oh yay, glad to hear that your wife will be trainig with him smile

Dogs can have funny reactions to foods. I know when I was training, hyper and unfocesed dogs often changed dramatically when we changed the food to one following the above guidelines. I also think that some of these underlying food sensitivies can affect behaviour. Say a dog is allergic to chicken. Say his stomach is always a bit queasy, or it gives him a headache. That dog really isn't going to be functioning at his best. Part of the nervous system lives in the gut. My old girl, with probiotics and l-glutamine (gut rehab) would be a different dog once she felt better. She was fearful most of her life, and it was vaccine induced frown

So, when you have a dog with any behaviour problem, taking care of the gut is really important. Many GSDs have such sensitive digestive systems, it might even be more important for a GSD?


Oh yes she will be training with me definitely - she has no choice smile No she loves it to.

Yeah I never heard of that but I can see how it may relate though. Currently I feed my dog Nutro Max - Grain Free. I was feeding him Blue Buffalo and others before but he just didn't seem to like it. I tried the whole taking his food away but when I heard of this and how it was grain free and he actually likes it, I stayed with it. I switch between beef and chicken each time still within the same brand.

You know what's funny about food, my wife had a dog before our Bruschi and she fed him probably the worst food you can think of, from Stop & Shop and that dog lived for 16 years. So while I believe that the type of food is important it is still different from dog to dog I think.

Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: jeasy02] #205948
01/16/12 08:16 PM
01/16/12 08:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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GSDs are often very sensitive to food.

Nutro used to be a pretty reliable food, long ago. They sometimes seem to have quality issues - suddenly on the forums a number of dogs being fed Nutro will get sick, so just be on the watch for that - I think they have an issue with either qulity control, or food sourcing, that crops up from time to time.

When my dogs tolerated kibble, they could never tolerate the "fancier foods", simple, quality ingredients is what they needed. They really are very individual in their needs!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: My dog is so scared of everything [Re: MaxaLisa] #205976
01/16/12 10:17 PM
01/16/12 10:17 PM
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Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
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Quote:
The other day he was going nuts and I had to put him on the back porch.


OK - but what did that teach him? Certainly not how to deal with whatever was causing him to 'go nuts.'

Instead, teach him what you do want in that situation. (I want my dogs to bark to alert me and 'quiet' when I acknowledge them and tell them "OK, I've got it."

Work to calm him, have him sit, watch you for direction, something - anything other than just shutting him away. Take every opportunity to train. The more intense he is, the more training is needed.

Slip a leash on him and work with him when he is this excited. Some of what you are seeing may be frustration. He doesn't know what to do and is not getting positive signals from you.

I am glad you will be going to training and working with him. As long as the training is positive it should do all of yo a world of good! thumbup

Last edited by PositiveDog; 01/16/12 10:17 PM.

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