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Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kaisersmom] #205318
01/13/12 04:08 AM
01/13/12 04:08 AM
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Kansas
kelso Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: DaisyShadow] #205319
01/13/12 04:10 AM
01/13/12 04:10 AM
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Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
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kelso  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: DaisyShadow
Stopping by for and update and to give hugs. hugging

Hope he is handling this weather ok, it got so cold. Thinking of you.


He is handling the cold really good...and he has less fur than he did when it was cold a month ago! (a month ago he could not handle the cold at all) So that is a good sign to me, just hoping for more good signs as the days go by smile


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kelso] #205323
01/13/12 04:14 AM
01/13/12 04:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,961
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
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PositiveDog  Offline
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Ohio
Quote:
I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days


Yes - cause for celebration. hugging


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: PositiveDog] #205332
01/13/12 05:19 AM
01/13/12 05:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
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Buffalo
I'm glad to hear that Kelso is again enjoying some of her favorite things, however modified. He is a very strong dog and is incredibly devoted to all of you. wub

One day at a time seems like a really good plan to me. hugging


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: BowWowMeow] #205336
01/13/12 05:58 AM
01/13/12 05:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,439
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
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Braverhund  Offline
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Massachusetts
Chewing on his bone wubbehind you sounds like contentment to me-- for both of you! hugging


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: Braverhund] #205346
01/13/12 09:58 AM
01/13/12 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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bianca  Offline
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Queensland. Australia
hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kelso] #205367
01/13/12 12:51 PM
01/13/12 12:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
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arycrest  Offline
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Central Florida
Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile
hugging hugging hugging WOW, GREAT NEWS ABOUT THE DECREASE IN PRED!!!

What a difficult decision to have to make about the bone biopsy. I know you and Dan will continue to make the right decisions for Kelso (whatever they may be), it's really a tough call.

I have a question, if you didn't repeat the cytology, would the bone marrow biopsy give you a conclusive answer, or does it take both tests for an absolute diagnosis?

Just curious, I'm only familiar with the bone punch they use for testing for osteosarcoma ... it's a hit or miss procedure. What does the bone marrow biopsy entail ... multiple sites? one site? Will they have to put him under?

GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU DO!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: arycrest] #205372
01/13/12 01:09 PM
01/13/12 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,765
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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Posts: 2,765
I learned the term watchful waiting when David was first diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. I like the whole concept.

Lifting the prednisone lets Kelso's physiology work things out a bit (not very clear, but you know what I mean). So if you see changes, good or bad, in energy or movement or mood, you can go on with the labs. I take your point.

Let's repeat Gayle: good luck in whatever you do!!!

MJ

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: Mary Jane] #205398
01/13/12 02:27 PM
01/13/12 02:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 818
Northwest OH
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand
kaisersmom  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 818
Northwest OH
I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I know it's an incredibly difficult decision.

The problem I have is that some doctors and vets sometimes seem to have tunnel vision. Instead of looking at the whole situation and circumstances surrounding it, they zero in on one thing and try to treat it instead of taking everything into consideration - probably the nature of the beast where specialists are concerned - they focus on their specialty.

This is just my opinion and I'm not arguing with whatever you decide at all - but since Kelso showed absolutely no signs of leukemia or lymphoma prior to the vaccines (at least as far as I know), and then became quite ill with the hemolytic anemia, concurrent infections, etc., I would think the likelihood of this actually being lymphoma or leukemia are pretty slim. Also, I'm not sure how all of his recent illness would affect his bone marrow, but if it does affect that also, how accurate would a bone marrow biopsy be right now? I would think all that he's been through would do something to the bone marrow and it might also need time to recover.

I'll try to give you a similar example. When my mom had her total colectomy 3 yrs ago, spent a few weeks in surgical intensive care and 3 months in rehab, she was on tube feeds and IV feedings for quite some time - which from what I remembered from med schoo, are known to raise blood sugar levels. Well, one of her "specialists" saw the elevated blood sugar and diagnosed her with diabetes and started her on metformin and another drug that I can't remember. I asked the doc about the relationship of elevated blood sugar and the tube/IV feedings, and he basically said that was unlikely and that she had developed diabetes. Fast forward a few months - guess what.... no diabetes - they have no idea of what caused the elevated blood sugar a few months earlier, but she no longer had it. Oh....ok...couldn't be the tube and IV feedings, could it?! Once her body had time to recover from the stress of surgery, tube feeds, abdominal wall infection, etc., her levels also went back to normal.

I really do wish you all the best in whatever you decide!! hugging


Pat

Marshall Dillon - 20 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kaisersmom] #205403
01/13/12 02:39 PM
01/13/12 02:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 818
Northwest OH
kaisersmom Offline
Old Hand
kaisersmom  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 818
Northwest OH
Quote:
what I remembered from med schoo


Sorry, that should've been "school"!! blush


Pat

Marshall Dillon - 20 months old
Kaiser - 11 1/2 yrs old - At the Bridge
Ray (Radar) - 8 yrs old - At the Bridge
Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kaisersmom] #205500
01/14/12 12:58 AM
01/14/12 12:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 537
RileyAnna Offline
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RileyAnna  Offline
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Posts: 537
Again, wishing you the best. I did the bone marrow. He did not have cancer of the bone so it said. I am sure that both you and I are hanging on the edge each day and it is not a very comfortable place to be. However, I bet that Kelso and Riley are really strong dogs and we all are going to get through all of this. Paws crossed for you and Kelso.

Many positive prayers for each of you each day.

Best from Sally and Riley and the pack.

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: arycrest] #205693
01/15/12 06:06 AM
01/15/12 06:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
Originally Posted By: arycrest
Originally Posted By: kelso
Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
Quote:
Kelso is doing pretty well though, seems more active so that is good


Do they think the bone marrow biopsy needs to be done right now? Since Kelso seems more active and is doing pretty well, would it hurt to wait a month or two and repeat the bloodwork rather than putting him through a bone marrow biopsy right away? Obviously I know you want a diagnosis and time to weigh the options if it is lymphoma or leukemia, but since he's doing better, I would be inclined to wait a little while for things to settle down a bit more and repeat the bloodwork and cytology before going ahead with a bone biopsy - but that's just me.

Fingers and paws crossed and good thoughts going out to you & Kelso! hugging


I tend to agree. That is why we have not called her back yet as we have been thinking about it ALOT. We actually decreased the pred last week after the vet visit and he really is doing good this week. Want to wait until he is stronger, but then again I do not want to be in "crisis mode" again when this might pop up (fever, low platlets ect) as that would again be a terrible time to do it.

We probably will not just repeat the cytology alone...as it is inconclusive alone...yet another gamble: if it comes back negative great than no biopsy probably, but if it is positive again we are in the same spot. It would be great if the cytology was really cheap or something...but it is $300 for the cytology alone! So part of me thinks why not just get the biopsy over with, it has been recommended three times now (first after the first crisis by the general vet, then the second time by the ER vet and now the specialist)

I just don't know... Wait until he is stronger or risk that he is going to get worse before better and then we don't have all the info we need.......

I am just pleased as punch that he his sitting behind me chewing on his bone like the good ole' days smile
hugging hugging hugging WOW, GREAT NEWS ABOUT THE DECREASE IN PRED!!!

What a difficult decision to have to make about the bone biopsy. I know you and Dan will continue to make the right decisions for Kelso (whatever they may be), it's really a tough call.

I have a question, if you didn't repeat the cytology, would the bone marrow biopsy give you a conclusive answer, or does it take both tests for an absolute diagnosis?

Just curious, I'm only familiar with the bone punch they use for testing for osteosarcoma ... it's a hit or miss procedure. What does the bone marrow biopsy entail ... multiple sites? one site? Will they have to put him under?

GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU DO!!!


It is supposed to be more conslusive than the cell testing they did, but as mentioned I am sure the pred could mess up the results.

I think it is one site, and yes they would have to put him under. The internist that we have been seeing would be the one that would do it

thank you all again


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: Mary Jane] #205694
01/15/12 06:08 AM
01/15/12 06:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
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Kansas
Originally Posted By: Mary Jane
I learned the term watchful waiting when David was first diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. I like the whole concept.

Lifting the prednisone lets Kelso's physiology work things out a bit (not very clear, but you know what I mean). So if you see changes, good or bad, in energy or movement or mood, you can go on with the labs. I take your point.

Let's repeat Gayle: good luck in whatever you do!!!

MJ


agree, He does seem to be doing quite well with the pred dose decrease (fingers crossed) One would think he would be doing worse if it was cancer as stated before the pred could help cancer

And Ruth... your post made me teary!

Thank you everyone for the wishes


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: kaisersmom] #205695
01/15/12 06:15 AM
01/15/12 06:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
Originally Posted By: kaisersmom
I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I know it's an incredibly difficult decision.

The problem I have is that some doctors and vets sometimes seem to have tunnel vision. Instead of looking at the whole situation and circumstances surrounding it, they zero in on one thing and try to treat it instead of taking everything into consideration - probably the nature of the beast where specialists are concerned - they focus on their specialty.

This is just my opinion and I'm not arguing with whatever you decide at all - but since Kelso showed absolutely no signs of leukemia or lymphoma prior to the vaccines (at least as far as I know), and then became quite ill with the hemolytic anemia, concurrent infections, etc., I would think the likelihood of this actually being lymphoma or leukemia are pretty slim. Also, I'm not sure how all of his recent illness would affect his bone marrow, but if it does affect that also, how accurate would a bone marrow biopsy be right now? I would think all that he's been through would do something to the bone marrow and it might also need time to recover.

I'll try to give you a similar example. When my mom had her total colectomy 3 yrs ago, spent a few weeks in surgical intensive care and 3 months in rehab, she was on tube feeds and IV feedings for quite some time - which from what I remembered from med schoo, are known to raise blood sugar levels. Well, one of her "specialists" saw the elevated blood sugar and diagnosed her with diabetes and started her on metformin and another drug that I can't remember. I asked the doc about the relationship of elevated blood sugar and the tube/IV feedings, and he basically said that was unlikely and that she had developed diabetes. Fast forward a few months - guess what.... no diabetes - they have no idea of what caused the elevated blood sugar a few months earlier, but she no longer had it. Oh....ok...couldn't be the tube and IV feedings, could it?! Once her body had time to recover from the stress of surgery, tube feeds, abdominal wall infection, etc., her levels also went back to normal.

I really do wish you all the best in whatever you decide!! hugging


agree with everything you are saying

thank you for sharing about your mom, I have seen quite a bit of that thing myself (tunnel vision) so am trying very hard to not do that.

the only theory with the vaccine and cancer, is that he did not have symptoms (we don't think..although he had slowed down just a tad but also just turned 5) and that the vaccine could have revealed it (it was there but no symptoms then the vaccine was the final insult to the immune system???) Again, just one of the theories
I don't know

Kelso is doing good, playing with his ball right now. His bladder control has improved alot with the decrease in pred (he is able to tell us when he has to go again) and he is starting to look bigger than his little sister again as well ..hehe

Hope you all are having a good weekend. Your posts are always something I look forward to reading here


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Leukemia/Lymphoma? [Re: RileyAnna] #205696
01/15/12 06:16 AM
01/15/12 06:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
Originally Posted By: RileyAnna
Again, wishing you the best. I did the bone marrow. He did not have cancer of the bone so it said. I am sure that both you and I are hanging on the edge each day and it is not a very comfortable place to be. However, I bet that Kelso and Riley are really strong dogs and we all are going to get through all of this. Paws crossed for you and Kelso.

Many positive prayers for each of you each day.

Best from Sally and Riley and the pack.


I did not know you had done the bone marrow biopsy? What did that entail? Glad the results were good!

Best wishes, thoughts and prayers for you and Riley as well, thank you! hugging


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

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