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Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. #180921
09/14/11 01:49 AM
09/14/11 01:49 AM
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Kansas
kelso Offline OP
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kelso  Offline OP
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Hi
I rarely ever post here in health, sorry for that frown I need some help/somebody to bounce ideas off and you all are the best. Kelso has already been to the vet and some labwork obtained, just thought I would come here in the interim/see what you guys thought.

It almost feels crazy (and maybe you all can tell me I am crazy and that would be good!) to post about and makes me sick to my stomach as I think about dogs like Dena and other young dogs that have been sick suddenly- Kelso just had his 5th birthday Sept 3rd and we have been having a grand old time last week as I was on vacation. So we were outside alot, playing ect.

Last Friday (Sept 9th) we went to the vet as he was due for a booster. He was great (charming with the dogs and staff there) and received his DHLPP. Everything was great. Friday night he was a little tired and Dan commented on that but we both thought it was because he had a big day.

Saturday (Sept 10th) we got up and played ball a bit. Then I walked him to my mom's house about 1.5 miles away (it was nice out, leisurely). There he met my mom's dog Anna outside for a walk. She was adopted about 1.5 yr ago and has been healthy except for bad allergies. Again, he was good....REALLY good actually (maybe the first sign that I should have noticed...) we walked with my mom and then came back to her house, he played some more ball, and then we walked home.

The only thing strange is that at the end of our walk I noticed that his back nail was bleeding, I thought I had heard some scraping but thought I was crazy. His back nail had been a little long and had either chipped off/worn down from the walk. It stopped bleeding quickly, not alot of blood loss. I was however a tad worked up as I thought he was dragging his nail? Still not sure if it was just that long or what. So I wanted to keep a close eye on his gait and things.

obviously it was a full day, we don't regularly walk that much and that far, but he is pretty active everyday and has been his whole life, we have walked since he was a pup. No health problems to that date except for a strained muscle, sebaceous cyst.

Saturday night he was just pooped, but he has been pretty tired in the past after we get home from my mom's though. He didn't want to eat much (about 1/2 of his bowl of kibble) we are not feeding raw at all right now - he is eating Nature's Variety. Which I thought was strange he NEVER has EVER not eaten his food, even kibble, but he did eat most. I shrugged it off a bit and thought maybe it was that he was sore or his toe hurt, he was walking ok.

Sunday he was lazy all day. Strange for him, but again he had seemed to mello out just the tiniest in the last year or so. He also turned down his kibble flatout (really strange) so Dan bought some Merrick canned and he ate that (not the best I know) and we started talking about how we were concerned. No other signs, drinking well, bright eyes and all. It was late in the day so we went to bed.

Monday (yesterday) Dan called me at work and said he was taking him to the vet right that second, he had went home for lunch like he does everyday and Kelso was tired getting out of his kennel and for the second day flatout refused kibble and the canned food now.

So he took him in and they kept him the rest of the day for observation. His temp was 103.6, so not crazy but a little elevated. Did not give him fluids as the vet said he did not look dehydrated. They commented that he did breath heavy at times while there for a few hours but looked ok. Labs were obtained. We told them everything about being active all week, the nail (the said it looked fine and trimmed up the rest of the back smile

He was tired last night, he ate some canned food, still drinking well. Today Dan called at 730 am for the lab results and the vet was in surgery, came home at lunch and Kelso again refused the food. I got my things to start coming home and the vet called me on my cell (it was not our reg vet, a vet that said she was just there for a few days this week and had seen him yesterday?) Anyway, she said she thought she found the reason he was tired.

She said his counts were "low" (hemoglobin, hematocrit, white blood cells/red blood cells), kidney/lytes and liver enzymes within normal limits. Did not appear dehydrated from the labs. She said she was trying to get the results of the SNAP 4, but they would likely get back in the am. I do not have the exact numbers, asked if I could get them but it was to late in the day to make it.

She did not think we needed to take him to the emergency vet unless he was not taking liquids/or other symptoms, basically the plan is to come and leave him there in the morning, she said she would likely start him on doxy.....

I know it could be a bajillion things and something minor?, but am terrified like I said after what has happened to dogs on the forum frown My mind is racing with tick/ strange infection/cancer/hemangio/autoimmune hemolytic anemia... or
related to the DHLPP (I was reading there are reports of that being associated with hemolytic anemia?)

he has perked up a little since I have been writing this (figures) and seems like he is trying to do what he usually does, just muted, chewing on a nylabone now smile

I called the emergency vet just because, so they are aware of him and said he could see an internist there tomorrow as well (it is a multi-specialty clinic and 24 hr ER)

so..tell me I am crazy. Please!

thank you SO much for reading (sorry about the detail..yikes!)


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180925
09/14/11 02:15 AM
09/14/11 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,939
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
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PositiveDog  Offline
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Ohio
Poor Kelso and poor you. What a worry, but good that the vet seems to be on top of this.

You may want to get a fecal sample in the morning, so they can test for any blood in the stool. Any chance of parasites or worms?

My sister's aussie had immune-Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA) about a year and a half ago. It was caught soon due to her seeing the differences in her dog, just as you have and she made a complete recovery.

So it is good you are already working on this.

I know others more knowledgeable will be checking in, but I wanted to say I hope it is something readily treated. hugging


Last edited by PositiveDog; 09/14/11 02:16 AM.

Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180927
09/14/11 02:24 AM
09/14/11 02:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging

I wish you were crazy, but it sounds like your vet is on top of things.

There are two main reasons why a dog crashes with anemia after boosters. Either it's from the vaccine and the vaccine alone - that's the hemolytic anemia that you were reading about - or there was a subclinical disease process going on that the vaccine triggered into a more virulent form. These disease processes tend to be either a tick disease, or cancer. With the fever, I would tend to tick disease too, and I would treat, regardless of what the SNAP says, we have many examples on the tick list of the SNAP being negative and more extensive titer tests being positive.

Do get a copy of the blood test, and if there has ever been a previous blood test, looking at a copy of that would be helpful too.

I would be very aggressive with this. The aggressive dose of doxy on the tick list is 5 mg/lb twice a day, which is roughly twice what many vets prescribed. The idea is to hit it hard and fast and long, to maximize recovery and minimize chance of recurrence. With a crash like this, treatment will need to be for several months. If there isn't a response to doxy, then you go looking for other things. You should know within a week if he is responding.

You might ask your vet if he can feel kelso's spleen on examination, to see if it's enlarged.

The good news, and, yes, there is good news, is that you caught this right away, you acted immediately, and it sounds like (at least so far!), you have a vet that is right on top of things.

I'm so very sorry, but I'm hopeful that you and your vet will get kelso past this hugging

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 09/14/11 02:26 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: MaxaLisa] #180933
09/14/11 03:03 AM
09/14/11 03:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
Thank you guys so much for responding. For some reason it just makes me feel better to talk to people here smile

Bonnie, I am so glad your sister's dog is doing well now! smile Sounds like they were really on top of it

I am trying to get a fecal, he was due for one (the yearly screen) friday...but the last time I have witnessed him "go" was saturday at my mom's (diarrhea). I am sure he maybe went sometime in the morning when Dan let them out. The vet said to not worry to much about him not going as he has not eaten alot, but would be so nice to get that dang sample! I keep going with him everytime outside (he needs some coaxing to actually get up off the futon to go frown

Lisa, thank you, thank you. I was hoping you would respond.
Kelso did have pre-op bloodwork before his neuter 3/2010 that was "normal"
I will try to get copies of the blood work from then and yesterday tomorrow.

Also, as a side note Allie has been fine, a little antsy.

His lethargy has seemed to come and go tonight..he got one burst of energy about 845 pm for 5 minutes but hasn't moved since. He ate some food at that time. Mostly today if I feed it to him from my hand, but did eat some canned on his own.

thanks again, hopefully will know more in the am


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180945
09/14/11 03:35 AM
09/14/11 03:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,350
SF Bay Area
Cassidy's Mom Offline
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Cassidy's Mom  Offline
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Oh, no - I'm so sorry Kelso is sick. Please keep us updated as you get news. hugging


Cava 1/6/18

Keefer 8/25/05

Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18
Flyball: ONYX, TF-III

Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08
Forever would have been too short

Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: Cassidy's Mom] #180946
09/14/11 03:51 AM
09/14/11 03:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
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kelso  Offline OP
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Kansas
Thanks Debbie!

I was thinking about Dena alot hugging (went back and read the old thread on the other forum today) and was wondering if she had had a recent vaccine before she was sick? I know she had lymphoma but thinking when Lisa mentioned vaccines could sortof bring that sortof thing to the surface when it was already there? Just curious as I know it was around her birthday as well (so possible time for vet appt ect)

Hope he gets well soon, this house is soooo quite!


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180947
09/14/11 03:55 AM
09/14/11 03:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,350
SF Bay Area
Cassidy's Mom Offline
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Cassidy's Mom  Offline
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We'd gone to Hawaii at the end of April that year, and she did get a booster of something in order to board her while we were on vacation. I don't recall off the top of my head which vaccine she was due for, but I think Lisa T asked me about vaccines in an email and I looked up the vet records, which is why I remember. So that was about 5 months prior, so I don't know if that was significant or not.


Cava 1/6/18

Keefer 8/25/05

Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18
Flyball: ONYX, TF-III

Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08
Forever would have been too short

Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180949
09/14/11 03:57 AM
09/14/11 03:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,846
Wisconsin
Steph, Thinking of you and Kelso. grouphug


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #180950
09/14/11 04:14 AM
09/14/11 04:14 AM
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Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
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BowWowMeow  Offline
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Hi Steph,

So sorry Kelso isn't feeling well! Would he eat homemade food?


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
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Kai
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Massie
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: BowWowMeow] #180955
09/14/11 05:25 AM
09/14/11 05:25 AM
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Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
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Geez, Steph I did not expect to read this but you and Dan have got onto this ASAP and it sounds as if your vet is also proactive. I'm hoping this turns out to be a minor problem which is easily rectified.

Just for information as I am not pre-guessing anything, my employer's Malamute had AIHA but this was when she was nearly 10yo and they had not recognised the symptoms until it was well, well advanced (just thought that age was slowing her down). There was talk at the time of trying a blood transfusion but it did not get to that point. I just spoke to my boss and he said it is more common in female than in male dogs so Kelso has that in his favour.

I have finger toes and eyes crossed for Kelso that this is soon sorted out and he is back to his normal self. hugging


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180956
09/14/11 05:25 AM
09/14/11 05:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Originally Posted By: kelso
Kelso did have pre-op bloodwork before his neuter 3/2010 that was "normal"
I will try to get copies of the blood work from then and yesterday tomorrow.

His lethargy has seemed to come and go tonight..he got one burst of energy about 845 pm for 5 minutes but hasn't moved since. He ate some food at that time. Mostly today if I feed it to him from my hand, but did eat some canned on his own.

thanks again, hopefully will know more in the am


You will want to get some probiotics.

There is a wide "variation" in what is normal on these tests - maybe those older ones will have a clue as to a "trend".

hugging

eta: regarding AIHA - if the RBC's are too low, they will want to use pred, in case it's hemolytic anemia of some sort. If this is the case (I don't know what the numbers are, platelets are also important here), then it's really super important that all doses of pred are accompanied by aggressive doses of doxy.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 09/14/11 05:27 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #180968
09/14/11 06:25 AM
09/14/11 06:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
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Originally Posted By: kelso
...
I know it could be a bajillion things and something minor?, but am terrified like I said after what has happened to dogs on the forum frown
...
... or related to the DHLPP (I was reading there are reports of that being associated with hemolytic anemia?)
...
hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging hugging
OMG Steph, I just saw this. The DHLPP/Hemolytic anemia is the first thing that popped into my mind as I was reading your message. I'm so thankful you and Dan recognized there's a problem and jumped on it right away. You're in my thoughts and prayers that he has a quick recovery.

Please give him a big hug (Allie too)!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: Qyn] #180970
09/14/11 06:35 AM
09/14/11 06:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,746
SE Wisconsin
FurKids Offline
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SE Wisconsin
I don't think you're the least bit crazy. It definitely sounds like there's *something* going on w/him that needs vet attention. It's even more worrisome when a dog shows signs of illness or pain because of their ability to hide this from humans.

When your child is sick, they can verbalize and tell you what's wrong. I don't know of any kids who hide being sick - it's a day home from school <g> but by the time you see something in a dog it could already be more serious than had you been able to tell sooner.

I hope whatever it is turns out to not be serious and fully treatable. Please keep us posted. Hugs and puppy slobber to you and Kelso.


Deb Nissa & Gracie
Forever in My Heart Riley, Hannah, Damien, Katy, Crocket, Kayla, Gypsy, Toby and Cookie
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: FurKids] #180971
09/14/11 06:37 AM
09/14/11 06:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Originally Posted By: FurKids
When your child is sick, they can verbalize and tell you what's wrong. I don't know of any kids who hide being sick - it's a day home from school <g> but by the time you see something in a dog it could already be more serious than had you been able to tell sooner.
This is a great point.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: MaxaLisa] #180984
09/14/11 10:47 AM
09/14/11 10:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,969
Manitoulin Island, Ontario, Ca...
Islandgsds Offline
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Islandgsds  Offline
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Manitoulin Island, Ontario, Ca...
Steph, I'm not able to give any medical advice. I'll leave that to more experienced members. I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and Kelso and will send healing vibes. hugging


Sandra
Loki 8/23/08,& Augie, bday-11/13 Gday-3/14,
Larka 1/4/06-8/16/17 Palla, 7/16/06-6/10/16 you were the tree that gave me shelter, the rock that gave me strength, for ever in my heart, until my journey has run its length. I will always love you.
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