German Shepherd Home
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 18 of 49 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 48 49
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: Emoore] #197298
12/04/11 07:46 PM
12/04/11 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
That is a great picture!

And great news too smile Sounds like the doxy made a difference. I would make sure that's not forgotten, and that the doxy isn't weaned before the pred. Sure can't wait for the pred dose to start reducing!

Kelso says that he'll continue to get better, as long as you don't stop buying him more toys laugh


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: kelso] #197311
12/04/11 09:25 PM
12/04/11 09:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah
arycrest  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
awwwwwwwwwwww ... that's great that handsome boy of yours liked his toy even if it didn't last too long!!! wub


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Kelso is sick :( -anemia/recent DHLPP.. [Re: arycrest] #197660
12/06/11 02:27 PM
12/06/11 02:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 48
H
Hollysmom Offline
Junior Member
Hollysmom  Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 48
Glad to hear about the blood values being almost normal. I am SO glad this vet is staying on top of the pred dosage. So many many vets will drop the dosage too quickly and the dog will relapse, sometimes with fatal results. Once the values are normal, then by slowly decreasing the dosage, he will continue to improve.
Don't worry, his muscles will return and he will look normal fairly quickly. You will be surprised how quick it all comes back on.
Glad the antibiotics are still on board, they are so so important also to kick this stuff.

checking back constantly to keep up to date on you and kelso.

Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: Hollysmom] #198486
12/11/11 07:16 AM
12/11/11 07:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
It is really hard to type this without getting upset so I am going to do my best

Kelso had a hard week. It got cold here this week (20's) which is usually both dog's favorite time. He started doing some strange shaking/trembling. We spoke with the vet and she thought it was due to his muscle and fat loss because of the steroids. Recommended adding puppy food to his diet and a sweater or something.

I got him a sweater, he was ok with that (in hindsight I should have known this was not right) he seemed to get better. Then he got these abrasions the next morning or so from where the sweater was rubbing his front arms. We thought it was so weird.
He then must have panicked or something thursday while we were at work. Dan came home at lunch and he had completely bent his crate to get out. This is a dog that has hardly ever even whined in his crate, has been crate trained for 5 years and sleeps in there on his own, he has never ever been anxious about or tried to get out before,

He was eating/drinking/acting pretty normal still, but my incredibly intuitive husband mentioned he thought he was off and wanted to watch him very close. But he got lethargic this evening. He was eating, but slowly. His muzzle was the slightest bit swollen. He just looked like he was trying so hard teary to cover it up.

So I took him to the ER. They had him admitted in under 30 minutes. Temp 104, vet noted petechia around his eyes and gums. Likely a relapse of the IMHA/ITP but he mentioned a bone marrow biopsy might be done.
Luckily the same internist that did his consult 2 months ago is on call so she is seeing him in the morning after IVF, labs, xrays ect.

Talking about things the abrasions may have been from low platlets, the shaking was probably "the chills" from a fever frown But it went away so fast I just don't know.

The staff was very nice. This is the same place Meeka had her FHO and pyometra surgery. I am glad he is with them. I do not have any lab results yet, I am going to call soon. I was going to stay but they told me I couldn't stay back with him so we are going early in the morning.

The look in his eyes was devastating tonight, like I said he is trying so hard, my big stubborn german boy teary Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers that he will get through this and hopefully will get to go home soon.
He was doing so good teary we are heartbroken and trying to stay positive for him as he tries for us.

--Just spoke to the vet tech she said he is "curled up in a ball" sleeping and his IV is in, doing good. No labs yet, she said I could call every hour and she will be there to talk hugging I appreciate that.


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: kelso] #198487
12/11/11 07:28 AM
12/11/11 07:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Oh no, this is absolutely terrible news, I'm so sorry hugging hugging

Thoughts, would include aggressive doses of doxy, with revisiting Dodd's protocol, but hopefully the ER has this handled. I worry about the prolonged high doses of pred if this is infection, but back between a rock and a hard place feelingblue


I know how terribly heart wrenching and scary and dangerous this is. I am so so so very sorry hugging hugging hugging

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 12/11/11 07:29 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: MaxaLisa] #198488
12/11/11 07:42 AM
12/11/11 07:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
kelso Offline OP
Veteran
kelso  Offline OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,490
Kansas
Lisa-
thank you for being on here right now. My husband specifically said I needed to post this in the hopes that you would respond (I have told him all of you advice over the past few months). He was like...you have to call her!

We are ready to do anything and everything at this point. Feel a bit like tick infection has not been taken seriously by the vets? not sure
, and it "could" be something else

I will tell you that when we called the vet tuesday about the "chills" we only had a day left of the doxy (2nd round of 30 day tx) She said it was ok to not continue...the little Lisa on my shoudler was saying NO!!!

So I asked the ER vet tonight, I specifically mentioned that he has not been treated with aggressive doses. He said he thought the two rounds would have kicked anything....

The chills were before he was off of it, but now we have a devastating set back a couple days after he is off of it.

I am going in there tomorrow with the intent that he should be put on the 5mg/lb twice daily dosing unless they have a real good reason not to.

I have no idea what the labs are either at this point, its just scary

have to get to bed, can't wait to see my boy

thank you again, and again


-Steph

GSD's
Allie, gotcha 7/2007
Riko z Vom Weberhaus, "Fez" 7/29/2012

forever our angels
Meeka, b. 10/31/1994-11/26/2006
Kelso, b. 9/3/2006-2/9/2012

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: MaxaLisa] #198489
12/11/11 07:52 AM
12/11/11 07:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Qyn Offline
Pooh-Bah
Qyn  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,964
Victoria, Australia
Steph, hugging thanks for letting us know about Kelso. The petechia in the eyes and gums with the swollen muzzle could still have occurred as a result of the crate escape so ... try to remain calm. Until tests are given and results obtained it is only natural to second guess what is going on ... you have acted quickly and he is where he can receive the treatment he needs. hugging

Best wishes - I am thinking of Kelso and sending good and positive thoughts by the truckload.


Alison
~~~~~~~~~~
Nix (derivative of Phoenix) Black GSD born 6 June 2011 (Gotcha day 9 Dec 2013)

Quynne gsdhalo - Black Female GSD - Sept 29, 2004 - 11 Nov 2013 Deeply missed

If you don't agree with me ... you are just not listening well enough. smile
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: kelso] #198490
12/11/11 08:22 AM
12/11/11 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
If you need it, pm'ed you my number frown

Originally Posted By: kelso
We are ready to do anything and everything at this point. Feel a bit like tick infection has not been taken seriously by the vets? not sure, and it "could" be something else

I think it is like those special "lyme doctors" that get in trouble with the medical board - it takes a special vet to understand exactly how to deal with these tick diseases. I call them tick diseases since that is what they most behave like and most of the time the exposure is there or at least possible. Yes, they "could" be something else, but it really doesn't matter if they respond in the same way, does it?


Quote:
I will tell you that when we called the vet tuesday about the "chills" we only had a day left of the doxy (2nd round of 30 day tx) She said it was ok to not continue...the little Lisa on my shoudler was saying NO!!!

Not only say NO!!!, but maybe jumping up and down and shouting a bit?


Quote:
So I asked the ER vet tonight, I specifically mentioned that he has not been treated with aggressive doses. He said he thought the two rounds would have kicked anything....

Yeah, that's a huge problem. For a dog showing some symptoms, on the tick list, and the resident vets on the list (one remaining, one left years ago), the treatment is 10 mg/kg twice a day for 8 weeks. That's for a dog that's not having the most serious of symptoms, and certainly a dog that's not on pred. In my mind, and this isn't written anywhere, but I start counting the treatment time once the steroids are stopped. Until the steroids are stopped, the doxy is just trying to keep "whatever" from digging deeper.

Ehrlichia dogs sometimes have a certain look to them, it can be similar to a dog on steroids - might be hard to distinguish what you are seeing hugging


Quote:
The chills were before he was off of it, but now we have a devastating set back a couple days after he is off of it.

I am going in there tomorrow with the intent that he should be put on the 5mg/lb twice daily dosing unless they have a real good reason not to.

Perhaps an appeal to logic....

Kelso initially got better on both pred and doxy. On pred along, he didn't improve, and went backwards in some ways.

Back on doxy, labs improved, however, it wasn't the aggressive dose of doxy, and the steroids have been very high. Now, very shortly after the doxy is stopped, this happens. In what world does it make sense to stop it?

Doxy in regular dosages does not kill, but prevents bacteria from growing (bacteriostatic, right? had to google it!). The rest is up to the immune system to keep in check. However, if the dog is on pred, then the immune system is suppressed and cannot finish the job.

There is evidence that bacteriostatic antibiotics, or at least doxy, also has bactericidal properties *when used in high enough doses*.

It does not make sense to me, when a dog is responding, yet still has serious and severe symptoms, that medication is stopped, or even decreased. Yet, this is done all the time.

Qyn made some excellent points about the damage that might have happened because of the crate incident. Poor boy, what must have been going through his head.

I'm off to see if I can find a few links....



MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: MaxaLisa] #198492
12/11/11 08:39 AM
12/11/11 08:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Steph, I am so sorry. hugging I have no wisdom to impart but I am keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: bianca] #198501
12/11/11 09:59 AM
12/11/11 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
It's hard to find a written reference to the aggressive dose, *twice* a day. It was written as a standard of care in one reference I'm thinking of, but the newer edition has the lower dose. I did find the following that at least mention teh 10 mg/kg BID (which is roughly 5 mg/lb BID):

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/content/printContentPopup.jsp?id=586457
Look under #8, Treatment for Ehrlichia, a stronger recommendation in #8 under the coinfection with lyme and ehrlichia, and, honestly, you have no idea what this is or if there might be coinfections.

http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA%2082nd%20Annu...0in%20Dogs.html
Supports the higher dose for 30 days.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-DN35GU...bid&f=false
This veterinary ICU book supports the higher dose

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.1996.tb02061.x/abstract
Just interesting to see the length of treatments here.

Babesia could be a coinfection (there are different babesias too), and the treatment that I'm doing for Max follows some babesia treatment (doxy, cipro for him because it's cheap, and pulsing metro once a month).
http://www.actavetscand.com/content/52/1/27


http://www.parasitesandvectors.com/content/pdf/1756-3305-3-33.pdf
On page 9, in the last paragraph in the Discussion, just before the conclusion, it talks about the effect of steroid suppression in a dog with ehrlichia...yes, it will have a profound increase in platelets, etc., but needs to be used with caution.


eta: while I don't think this is entirely IMHA, this had some good info:
http://www.avsg.net/documents/ImmuneMediatedHemolyticAnemiaHeatherMineoDVMDACVECC.pdf


Do update us when you can hugging



Last edited by MaxaLisa; 12/11/11 10:29 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: MaxaLisa] #198507
12/11/11 11:08 AM
12/11/11 11:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
Pooh-Bah
arycrest  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
hugging hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging hugging

Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way that Kelso's doing better when you check with the ER ... please give him a huge hug from me!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: arycrest] #198511
12/11/11 01:12 PM
12/11/11 01:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,575
Southwest, MI
Jane Jean Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jane Jean  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,575
Southwest, MI
Originally Posted By: arycrest
hugging hugging hugging Steph & Kelso hugging hugging hugging

Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way that Kelso's doing better when you check with the ER ... please give him a huge hug from me!!!

From me too... hugging


Onyx
Karlo
Gambit
SweetClover3.17.94~11.24.08 Kacie 7.21.2005-5.01.2015
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: Jane Jean] #198514
12/11/11 01:51 PM
12/11/11 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
I definitely think the swelling is from the crate deal...

Is it possible that his thyroid has crashed in all of this - the shaking, etc? Dr. Dodd's and Michigan State do the thyroid panels.

Hoping he is doing better this morning.

Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #198524
12/11/11 02:38 PM
12/11/11 02:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,952
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,952
Ohio
I am reading this with tears in my eyes - I can "hear" your fear for Kelso.

I will be thinking of you both and wishing the best results of this overnight visit. So happy you have a supportive and caring husband to help you take care of Kelso.

hugging


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: Kelso has been admitted overnight [Re: MaxaLisa] #198525
12/11/11 02:41 PM
12/11/11 02:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,756
Mary Jane Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,756
Steph,

It's great that an internist familiar with Kelso's problems will be consulting this morning. This is just so much to handle.

You and your husband are really in tune with your boy to recognize all those signs.

All possible wishes for better news this morning. Like others, I'll check back.

take care,
Mary Jane

Page 18 of 49 1 2 16 17 18 19 20 48 49

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
FDA warning grain free
by jlstudent1970. 08/14/18 12:52 AM
chit chat
by jlstudent1970. 08/13/18 11:51 PM
First heat-how to manage?
by Mary Jane. 08/13/18 02:53 PM
Babsy is 13.
by Selzer. 08/11/18 05:35 AM
desktop version?
by MaxaLisa. 08/09/18 05:50 AM
old pics of Max
by MaxaLisa. 08/08/18 01:24 AM
FDA Warning on Dog food
by Shilohsmom. 08/06/18 12:48 AM
August 2018 Monthly Photo Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/02/18 09:43 PM
Comments for August 2018 Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 08/02/18 09:41 PM
Time to Vote July 2018 Photo Contest
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 07/29/18 03:09 PM
Help Support the Forum
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
Irritations
by middleofnowhere. 08/10/18 06:51 AM
SamCat and a rainy day
by PositiveDog. 07/31/18 03:20 PM
Just popping back in :-)
by MaxaLisa. 07/23/18 02:56 AM
I think we can swear on this site...
by middleofnowhere. 07/17/18 08:36 PM
Changes at home
by Zisso. 06/24/18 05:55 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 93 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
CJGIBBONS, Mernie, alen, Deena, Sondrica17
2912 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums100
Topics20,498
Posts326,549
Members2,912
Most Online209
Jul 31st, 2018
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1