German Shepherd Home
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
At my wits end with perianal fistula! #193281
11/13/11 01:46 AM
11/13/11 01:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
Hello, I'm new to this and I don't have a GSD but I don't know where else to turn at this point. I have a 9 year old Lab/Dalmatian mix who's had a PF for quite a while now. He was on a 6 week course of prednisone and antibiotics, which really helped, but the vet decided to wean him off the meds and see what happened and the PF is getting worse again. He's now recommending Atopica for "a couple of months" but it's SO expensive! He's also recommending the hypoallergic prescription food by Purina that I can only get from the office and I'm just not sure about that either! The vet says surgery is rarely successful because he believes the PF is strictly autoimmune and not related to the anal gland at all. I'm trying to decide what the best course of action is but from everything I've read it's really difficult to get rid of PF's for good. PLEASE HELP!!

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: BMullett] #193282
11/13/11 02:09 AM
11/13/11 02:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
welcome I'm so sorry to hear about the PF.

Have you found the PF yahoo group yet?

What antibiotic was used? Did the PF completely close? Is there a history of anal gland problems?

Diet is a huge part of dealing with a PF, but you can deal with them without a prescription food, what are you feeding now?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193288
11/13/11 02:31 AM
11/13/11 02:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
Actually, I just found the Yahoo group so I'm signing up there as well.

He was on Cephalexin for 6 weeks, and was just given it again for another 3 weeks. The PF never completely closed with the first round of treatment but the vet didn't want to keep him on the prednisone for too long. No history of anal gland problems, but like the GSDs I think it could be related to his tail being lower on his rear than most other dogs.

I was feeding a grocery store brand (wish I had known how BAD this was!!) and I tried switching to Blue Buffalo chicken & rice, and I also tried Wellness chicken & rice. The vet is now suggesting the "novel protein" diet so I'm considering anything that he hasn't had before - duck, venison, salmon/whitefish. I've been researching some different foods and I'm surprised there's so many choices which makes choosing that much harder.

I feel like he may need a surgical debridement to clear away the necrotic tissue in hopes of healing this up, but the vet doesn't really want to go that route. Paying $140 a month for the Atopica will be a tough one to swing though!

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: BMullett] #193291
11/13/11 02:53 AM
11/13/11 02:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I saw that you were directed to the group, and they will help you a lot.

Most important rule, never decrease meds while the fistula is still healing. You have to wait until it's healed, and then very slowly back off.

This really doesn't have much to do with the tail set. It's really all about the immune system. When there isn't anal gland involvement, it's more like a side effect of crohn's disease....it's immune system dysfunction, with a touch of infection, in the vast majority of cases.

The good news is that you were feeding grocery store food, so there are things that you can do that will make a huge difference. I would stay away from chicken foods, and stick with a novel protein and single carb source. Natural Balance, Wellness Simple Solutions, and yes, others are out there.

The PF will have the latest deal on the Atopica, and can find a way for cheaper than $140 per month. They always know the best deal in town. When I tried it here, I think the cost was $80 per month.

The antibiotics that helped my boy, at different times, were Clavamox, Baytril, Cipro, doxy and amoxi....we didn't use Ceph.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193301
11/13/11 03:29 AM
11/13/11 03:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
Natural Balance and Wellness Simple Solutions are the 2 main foods I am considering. He's not picky so I shouldn't have any issues getting him to eat it, but I like to keep them all on the same food and my other two are picky. I can't wait to see what advice the PF has, and I'm so thankful there are people out there who have gone through this and know what to do!

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: BMullett] #193311
11/13/11 04:06 AM
11/13/11 04:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Unfortunately, the GSD people know all about this stuff frown


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193312
11/13/11 04:14 AM
11/13/11 04:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
So were you able to get complete healing with yours? That's, of course, what I'm hoping for but it seems like it's a long road. I never knew this was such a serious problem and I'm just hoping we caught it in time to get some resolution.

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: BMullett] #193317
11/13/11 04:25 AM
11/13/11 04:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
There is a light at the end of the tunnel...

My boy's resolved, but he has to stay on meds. His is about infection and not immune system issues. Some will resolve and not need meds, some will resolve and have occassional flares.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193319
11/13/11 04:35 AM
11/13/11 04:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
One thing I came across that I was considering is Desitin. Have you tried this and had any luck with it?

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193320
11/13/11 04:35 AM
11/13/11 04:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
My experience with PF was that my dog's fistulas never resolved with the usual meds, the kept returning. He had a new draining tract every other month, just as we'd get one healed. My vet begged me to let her try Traditional Chinese Medicine herbs, and since I had nothing to lose at that point, I agreed. He never had another PF again, and lived to be 15. Like each protocol, alopathic or holistic, I cannot say this will work for every dog. The herb mixture used was either Long Dan Xi Gan Tan or Xai Hu Tan. I'm sorry, I don't recall which was for the PF and which was helping his arthritis.


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: Braverhund] #193326
11/13/11 04:48 AM
11/13/11 04:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Braverhund
....Long Dan Xi Gan Tan .....


This is the one that helped Max *a lot*. Not sure if it would have closed without it!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: Braverhund] #193331
11/13/11 06:06 AM
11/13/11 06:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Braverhund  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
Thank you, Lisa-- that must be the one! Chell had to remain on Long Dan Xi Gan Tan for the rest of his life, but never had another PF. The only negative is that it tastes bitter, and my vet's compounder didn't put it in capsules, so I had to add it to (...wait for it...) a scoop of canned Alpo! sick A TCM vet's compounding pharmacy should have capsules for your dog, however. thumbup


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: Braverhund] #193334
11/13/11 07:27 AM
11/13/11 07:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Aaack, Alpo! After you mentioned it was bitter, I did put it in capsules. He might have been able to get off of some drugs had he been able to stay on the herbal, but it made his paw swell after awhile? Weird, but that's Max wub


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #193354
11/13/11 12:46 PM
11/13/11 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
J
JakodaCD OA Offline
Veteran
JakodaCD OA  Offline
Veteran
J

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,378
Old Lyme CT
my experience with fistulas on TWO gsd's was maybe different as they were the result of infected/blown anal gland(s).

I don't consider what my dogs had as "true PF disease", in that, neither had autoimmune problems, allergies, ibd, sibo or anything else going on really.

The first one many years ago, I went the surgery route (so I disagree with your vet when he says surgery doesnt work, depends on the dog and what else is going on )...Jake had complete gland removal as well as all the "fistula tracts" he was around 7-8 years old, complete recovery, had one reoccurance, cleared it up, lived till he was almost 14.

The second one Dodge, blew a gland, result a big ole fistula,,I was willing to go the Cyclo(atopica) route because my vet hadn't had a client that was willing to try that because of expense..He gave me a good deal on meds..Started with a high dose, one month, progress, dropped it by 50 mgs second month, by the end of the second month the fistula was CLOSED, did another month dropped to 50mgs just for insurance. He had a couple reoccurances, closed up with Desitin.

I think fistulas that are the result of anal gland issues ALONE, are easier to treat than the immune system related ones.

Definately join the PF group, lots of good info , referrals there. Good luck with your dog


Diane
Ozzie von Kleinen Hain
Jakoda's Kholee
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Danger Danger von Kleinen Hain aka "Masi"
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx aka "Jynx"
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge aka "Jag"
"Angel" Sami
"Angel" Dodge
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: JakodaCD OA] #193359
11/13/11 01:20 PM
11/13/11 01:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,966
Ohio
PositiveDog Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PositiveDog  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,966
Ohio
Skye was treated beginning March of 2010 for pf using tacrolimus topically and cipro for the antibiotic. (I was also using desitin and it did seem to help, but probably would not on it's own.)

Also, pred just initially for her. I remember the cipro made her very tired, but the combo worked well for her.

It took about 6 to 8 weeks for Skye's to clear up and they have not returned.

The tac cost me just under $70 but I still have some of it left - it was a huge tube.

Have you checked the health indexes here? I think Lisa has a lot of links on pf as well as Skye's and others from this board.

Good luck - I remember feeling beside myself for Skye. I hope things are better soon.


Bonnie

With approval of my friends:

SamCat, 03/2011
Bennie the 12 1/2% GSD 02/2013

Seiko, Solo, Sophie, Skye and Buddy - bridge dogs who taught me so much
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: Braverhund] #193365
11/13/11 02:51 PM
11/13/11 02:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
B
BMullett Offline OP
New Member
BMullett  Offline OP
New Member
B

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
I'll look into that Patti, at this point I will try anything! I feel so bad for my boy because I know it has to be painful. My vet has already said he's afraid they'll just keep coming back no matter what.

Brandy

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: Braverhund] #308498
02/15/14 03:17 PM
02/15/14 03:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
M
mayorbg Offline
New Member
mayorbg  Offline
New Member
M

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
Any help with dosage on the Long Dan Xi Gan Tan would be great. I have just started my 11 yr old on it, but with the recent snow storm my vet was closed and now its the weekend so i couldn't get that info from them. She is 91 lbs and the PF has been an ongoing issue for 9 months now. diet changed to single source human grade food. Lacerum wound cleaner in use and now the herb. fingers crossed.

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: mayorbg] #308531
02/15/14 06:09 PM
02/15/14 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
Do you have the powder of pills? I hope my jar at home has doing instructions, but I've just left for the day, so it will be awhile. I used the powder and filled some gel caps. IIRC, it's not so tasty and I didn't want my boy to refuse it.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: MaxaLisa] #308604
02/16/14 02:21 PM
02/16/14 02:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
M
mayorbg Offline
New Member
mayorbg  Offline
New Member
M

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
Hi,

I have the powder. The bottle says 1/2 tsp for dosage and i assume that's for humans, but it doesn't say if it's 1x or 2x etc per day. I to filled a gelcap that i had emptied it's contents of probiotic that i give them. Where can i find empty gelcaps to use? Thank you for your help.

Re: At my wits end with perianal fistula! [Re: mayorbg] #308627
02/16/14 06:05 PM
02/16/14 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline

Global Moderator

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,670
Northern CA
I have the bottle below, which has the instructions, for small animal (dog rather than horse), 1/2 gram per 10-20 pounds. (Personally, I have no problem giving a GSD a human sized dose of most supplements.)

However, my vet's instructions on the label says 1/2 scoop (1,000mg) twice a day with food. (Forgot to add, my boy was about 75 lbs.)

I hope that helps!



(Sorry so large.)

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 02/16/14 06:07 PM. Reason: added max's wgt.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Topics
Fear aggression and long term meds
by Zisso. 01/19/22 08:07 PM
Xerxes and the snowsuit
by jarn. 01/11/22 10:33 PM
Change in heat cycle
by middleofnowhere. 12/24/21 07:58 PM
Hiking with the boys!
by jarn. 12/20/21 01:59 PM
Gypsy eats so much!
by Zisso. 08/17/21 06:05 PM
New Topics - Other Animals & Chat
The Covid test request site is up!!!!
by Shilohsmom. 01/18/22 08:38 PM
Snow whee!!!
by jarn. 01/17/22 02:48 PM
GP update (vomiting blood)
by jarn. 01/10/22 08:32 PM
Toby's mom (day surgery)
by jarn. 01/06/22 06:21 PM
Happy New Year
by Wisc.Tiger_Val. 12/31/21 09:14 PM
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 3 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Monthly Photo Contest Winner
Newest Members
GSDman, GSDluvah, Bonwno, Mongoski, Lawz67
3048 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics18,724
Posts291,847
Members3,048
Most Online991
Jan 15th, 2020
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1