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Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: Mary Jane] #174049
08/19/11 06:21 AM
08/19/11 06:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Thank you for asking MJ, and Max thanks everyone for the great well-wishes smile

Mary Jane, I think you have too much confidence in me! I'm just kinda wandering blindly here!

I was really hoping that I would have good news to post....

I tried a couple of days with no doxy, and it was not good. No improvement and increased panting and distress.

After reading that vet's response on the endocrinology blog (I need to reply to that!), and thinking about what the internal medicine guy said, I think I have come full circle....it's a horse, not a zebra, what Max has always had, some weird infection by a mysterious bug or bugs...what other fistula requires 3 different types of abx at the same time to heal? It could be the same thing that killed Indy too, or similar, I have my suspicions. I am starting some of the tick herbs here for me....

I've been thinking that, if this isn't figured out soon, he won't be here long, as he is able to do less and less over time, and his quality of life is about zero. At training, he now spends more time laying down than doing anything else. I probably shouldn't even have taken him the last couple of weeks, but he gets to do nothing else, not even go for real walks.

So.....I've gone in the opposite direction and doubled his doxy dose, which he has never tolerated well, and changed the other abx, so I have everything covered. The doxy dose is now the aggressive dose recommended on the tick list, but he's always had a reaction to that. I will just have to deal with that reaction as a lesser of all evils with the hope of getting him past this. No sense in doing the same thing that I was doing when this all started, so it's a much more aggressive abx mix. Tylan is still in the mix, but if he can't tolerate it, I have a back up to switch to, if I have to. Flagyl, instead of tylan, was helping, but he gets super wobbly on it and can't stand without slipping.

Bought some super $50 probiotics ( shocked ) to more seriously address the good bacteria issue and leaky gut; I've always had problems finding a good probiotic for him and this one was recommended by someone on the tick list. He's become intolerant of l-glutamine for some reason, so I'll have to find other ways, with his allergies, to address the leaky gut.

I want to also treat for GERD and esophagitis (both common with doxy), but the stuff I gave him this morning (DGL licorice and marshmallow), I just realized are both diuretics, so I have to be pretty careful - those are probably contraindicated for dogs in a hypovolemic type state, even if it's not from dehydration. I really don't want to have to add something like zantac to the mix, but I might have to. He is my drug boy it seems. Funny, Indy was my drug-less girl, it's really hard to switch gears like that, after so many years. But I'd really like Max to be around a lot longer....I have so many plans for us!

I did make us some Throat Coat tea last night, and he lapped it right up - I was happy for that!

I'm not ready to give up on the boy yet. If a monkey can type Shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem ), then I figure that I have to hit upon the right mix at some point laugh


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: MaxaLisa] #174059
08/19/11 09:53 AM
08/19/11 09:53 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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bianca  Offline
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Queensland. Australia
With the increased dose of doxy, how long before you would expect to notice any change? WIll you continue with the Vit C?

I so wish I had the knowledge to help Lisa, it breaks my heart to read all this but my thoughts are with you and Max. You surely have to be on the right track now...horses, horses, horses....hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: bianca] #174093
08/19/11 04:00 PM
08/19/11 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,898
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,898
Wisconsin
Lisa I have been following and reading haven't had time to post much.

I have had Lakota on Turmeric for a couple of weeks and yes unfortunately he is back on Ceph again. But I am seeing some good things from the Turmeric, he has really good stools, he is drinking a little more, no ill effects from the Ceph so far.
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbt...html#Post151769

Just tossing this out that maybe you want to talk to you herbal vet about.

Hang in there Max. You momma is trying so hard to find the right combination to make you feel better.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: MaxaLisa] #174107
08/19/11 04:45 PM
08/19/11 04:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,766
Mary Jane Offline
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Mary Jane  Offline
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Posts: 2,766
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I'm just kinda wandering blindly here!


I strongly disagree. I think you're using every avenue and insight that you can to care for your boy. But you're only human, so give yourself a break.

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I figure that I have to hit upon the right mix at some point laugh


That sums it up.

All the best to both of you,
MJ

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: Mary Jane] #174166
08/19/11 08:50 PM
08/19/11 08:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Bianca, thank you. Do not feel bad!!! Geez, I've had 4 vets and a cardiologist that Max has seen.....good thing one of them, the internal medicine guy, mentioned the dilation of blood vessels from infection. He was thinking SIBO, but it's some other unkown infection it seems, and of course it goes back to his suspected tick disease. Since both of my dogs have had these bad infections that exhibit differently, it seems to me, it's either ticks or mosquitos.

As long as the vitamin C is not hurting, I will continue it. It should help with any infection, bacteria or viral, or if this has some component of lymphoma.

Thanks Val and Mary Jane...we are doing everything we know how! I will see about the tumeric, but I don't think he did well on it

He is not worse today. He might be better. It could be that some things are better while other things are worse.

I noticed immediately, when I got home last night, that he was more active. BUT, he also had more trouble breathing. I did end up adding some zantac before bed, and also some charcoal. Today he can move a bit more with better breathing, but it's still really difficult, and he still can't move too much.

If this whole thing was about increasing his doxy to the aggressive of dose, me, of all people, I think I'll just shoot myself headbang

If this really is about the increase in doxy, I'm not sure where I go from here, but, I hope, I really really really hope, that's a bridge that I'll get to cross later.

Oh, since he's not Addison's, but has this weird cortisol thing....I'm also trying to address this. He is low IgA, IgM, IgG (Common Variable Immunodeficiency, CVID, doesn't everything have a initials?). If I can't address that, then he will probably need more and more abx, until we can't do anything and that's it. If we get past this now, something needs to change in the way that his body functions.

I may have contributed to his problems with my goofy sleep schedule, so I will continue with the pred in the morning because he is low cortisol, 5 mg for now, with the ultimate goal of 2.5 mg.

However, at night, I will give him some low dose melatonin (gave 1 mg last night), to try to get his own cycle back in gear. I did some reading, and it seems that there is some evidence that melatonin can increase IgA levels. I have to be really careful with him and not stimulate the immune system in the wrong way though.

So, now, I just have to figure out how to remember all of this, and try to fit it all in in the course of a day gsdbeggin


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: MaxaLisa] #174179
08/19/11 10:09 PM
08/19/11 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Mary Jane

Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
I can't imagine life without a dog here.


That is my feeling, we are back to an intense search among rescues.


Mary Jane,

I wasn't sure where to respond to this, figured that this is as good as place as any.

I just wanted to say that I'm very happy to hear this. You have so much to give, and they have so much to give us wub


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: MaxaLisa] #174269
08/20/11 03:14 AM
08/20/11 03:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,898
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,898
Wisconsin
Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #174274
08/20/11 03:21 AM
08/20/11 03:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...


(Hijack away, nice to have some good news....)


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #174276
08/20/11 03:22 AM
08/20/11 03:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
Barb E Offline
Pooh-Bah
Barb E  Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,275
Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger_Val
Mary Jane, not to hijack Lisa's thread but I am glad you are looking again. You have so much to give...


Ditto!!!!!


Dante - March 8, 2004 - May 06, 2017
Kaos von Wolfstraum - Oct 31, 2011

My Blog: https://barbrambling.wordpress.com/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? SIBO? [Re: Barb E] #174407
08/20/11 06:22 PM
08/20/11 06:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Max is still here smile and doing a bit better smile

I was able to walk about the length of two blocks and back, and while he couldn't breath well at all, it only took 15-20 minutes after we got home for him to settle his breathing, rather than the 40 minutes.

His stomach is having a hard time with the doxy. Not that it's making him ill, but I can feel that it's firm and uncomfortable, so that will be a tricky part in managing here.

I am starting to wean down the prednisolone dose. He's at 5 mg now. I'd like to get him down to 1mg or at most 2.5mg a day, I'm not sure. I sure wish I had a measurement for that. His bony head tells me that the 5 mg is too high.

Funny, somewhere between 2-4 each afternoon, he has a very uncomfortable spell. I will have to tell the homeopathic vet, those things are important. The internal med guy wanted me to give the tylan 3 times a day, so maybe he needs that mid-day dose right now, I dunno about that yet.

I found my old acupressure book that came with the red light acupuncture unit, so I think I will try to find the time to do the "daily tune-up" on him. He's not getting acupuncture at all now from anyone (something had to give...), so this should help. I need to look up the one for humans and do that one for me smile

I don't know if this is the complete answer, or how long this slight improvement will last, but I'll take any encouraging signs here that I can get!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more [Re: MaxaLisa] #174419
08/20/11 07:46 PM
08/20/11 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Well, crap....I looked up, and this was spurting from his nose, the pictures are after I got the bleeding stopped:





It was spurting from a pinhole at the tip of his nose, and very difficult to stop. I finally got it stopped. I have an herb here, that was for his fistula, that they used to use on battlefields to stop bleeding. I mixed some with water and put it on the edge of his nose, and gave him the rest internally. It's also used for hemangiosarcoma, I was saving it for an emergency, I only have 8 capsules.

I noticed that it was dripping more blood these past several days after starting the doxy. I have no idea what the mechanism in, but I'm a bit afraid.

One step at a time.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more [Re: MaxaLisa] #174422
08/20/11 07:53 PM
08/20/11 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 149
unloader Offline
Member
unloader  Offline
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Posts: 149
Oh no! How awful! I sure hope he will be alright


Michael
Hallmark's Remy 3/10/2010
See Remy Run Blog
Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more [Re: unloader] #174427
08/20/11 07:55 PM
08/20/11 07:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
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Posts: 4,753
Buffalo
Oh, Lisa, that is really scary. Is it possible he is just dehydrated (trying to be an optimist here)?

hugging to you. My biggest fear is mixing all of these meds. One things just seems to lead to another. teary


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more [Re: BowWowMeow] #174430
08/20/11 08:13 PM
08/20/11 08:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,478
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Online Coffee
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Posts: 5,478
New Milford, CT
hugging Wish I could offer something constructive to help, but we'll send good thoughts for you and Max from CT.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more [Re: BowWowMeow] #174431
08/20/11 08:14 PM
08/20/11 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Thank you Michael, me too frown

Ruth, I worry too about all the drugs. The bleeding, I think this is just part of the disease process and it's affect on the blood vessels. Makes me wonder if some of the hypovelemia really is from blood loss seeping out of the veins. Weird vascular stuff and weird bleeding is part of some nasty tick diseases, so it may be part of whatever he has going on now.

It's probably true that the pred is keeping his platelets from going low and keeping him from bleeding out somewhere.

I'm just really worried about him, and he keeps jumping up and barking at everything since this happened. I told him I'd kennel him if he didn't settle, so he sulked over and got up on the couch. Hope he doesn't forget, he's going to give me a heart attack.

So glad the carpet is at the end of it's life. Blood spray is a b*tch to clean up - but spraying it with water, and quite a bit coming off.

Woodreb, good thoughts are always welcome and helpful!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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