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Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: bianca] #170391
07/29/11 11:55 PM
07/29/11 11:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Thank you bianca, it was very frightening.

I think I finally actually slept at about 5:30 this morning, I'm pretty groggy today. Thank goodness no appointments today or anything requiring important focus!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa] #170398
07/30/11 12:21 AM
07/30/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,904
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,904
Wisconsin
Lisa that had to be really scary. I would have been. I hope you can find some answers.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #170401
07/30/11 12:29 AM
07/30/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,479
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee
Carpal Tunnel
Woodreb  Online Coffee
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,479
New Milford, CT
Keeping you and Max in my thoughts. Hope you can get some answers that make sense and can help him.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Woodreb] #170409
07/30/11 01:08 AM
07/30/11 01:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
Old Hand
LJsMom  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
Dr. Plechner sounds like he really cares about Max. crossedfingers


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: LJsMom] #170414
07/30/11 01:26 AM
07/30/11 01:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
Natalie559 Offline
Veteran
Natalie559  Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,529
Tallahassee, FL
Lisa- thinking of you and Max and hoping the absolute best for your boy!


Natalie

enjoying life with Penny 6/04 & Blaze 11/12
while Sasha 1/05-11/12 watches over us

Swing Sets By Design
Read Allen Carr's The Easy Way to Quit Smoking
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: LJsMom] #170417
07/30/11 01:28 AM
07/30/11 01:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
Rescues Rule Admin
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
He sounds very good and maybe can talk to other specialty vets if needed about those other areas.

I am sorry for the big scare. Man!

The dose of Pred you would need if you have to suppress his immune system (not sure if that's still on the table) will freak you out. But it works, like...immediately.

You tell Mr. Max time to kick back and relax for a bit and you will bark at the UPS man. laugh

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #170446
07/30/11 03:24 AM
07/30/11 03:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Thank you, I thought to myself how unfair it would be to lose him, when I think I might be close to knowing how to support him.

Jean, I think the vets have to be open to this stuff, it's a bit out of the mainstream, and I'm very lucky that I have this acu vet that thought it was a valid idea. I haven't told the vet at the regular clinic yet that I kinda went a different route with the hormone testing. After looking at what she was thinking, she was thinking about University of Tennessee, where they seem to be looking mostly at atypical Cushing's, so kinda the opposite of what Max is, and, really, with a GSD, this IgA connection seems like a no brainer, if I look at him as a whole.

I ordered the NutraMin product, so that, in theory, should help his nutritional status. I have been frustrated his whole time here that I can't get him to absorb nutritients very well. His hair analysis a couple of years ago showed him under-nourished, which was very frustrating.

People keep telling me that he will need higher doses of pred/immune suppressants initially, so I'm trying to brace myself. Right now, he's at double an Addison's dose.

I will work on my bark! Woof!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa] #170490
07/30/11 12:35 PM
07/30/11 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,767
Mary Jane Online content
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Online Content
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,767
I hope you both got some sleep last night.

I have to say that the number of people who alert at every breath or pant or lack of which is both frightening and reassuring: lots of dogs with some problem and lots of people who worry.

I will always wish that I provided Wolf one tenth of the health advocate that Lisa rendered Indy and mystery disease Max. I'll never know what might have helped him. What's important is that Lisa uses anything she can think of, any resource, any wild idea, to care for her dogs and other dogs, as well.

Have a calm weekend with quiet nights for everybody.

MJ

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Mary Jane] #170539
07/30/11 05:47 PM
07/30/11 05:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Oh Mary Jane, you are so dear, I so worry about you too hugging please don't be so hard on yourself, some things, as in Indy's death, you just can't stop or reverse hugging I'm going to go to Wolf's thread in a minute and reply more fully.

As for Max and I, the night was better. I've thrown everything I can think of at him, and taken away anything I think might be problematic, so, as long as he doesn't move or get excited, he can breath/pump.

Those test results better be negative.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa] #170577
07/30/11 10:02 PM
07/30/11 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
I will say, on the very small doses of pred, he is having much less back pain....I don't even want to know what it might be doing to his pancreas and/or liver.

Found a few more names for the different types of hypovolemia. When not caused by dehydration or blood loss, it's also called relative hypovolemia or distributive shock. Looking at the different stages of shock, he is somewhere between stage 2 and 3, where the body is no longer able to compensate, and there are more dramatic changes in his chemistry. Stage 4, that's the bad stage, often irreversible damage to organs, if the dog survives.

The excerpt above, I believe, referred to a chronic constriction of blood vessels, this one, a dilation. Wish at least something wouldn't be fuzzy.

=====================

Distributive shock [a form of hypovolemia]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_shock

Distributive shock is defined by hypotension and generalized tissular hypoxia. This form of relative hypovolemia is the result of blood vessel dilation. Septic shock is the major cause, but there are other examples as well.

Examples of this form of shock are:

* Septic shock - This is caused by an overwhelming infection leading to vasodilation, such as by Gram negative bacteria i.e. Escherichia coli which releases an endotoxin which produces adverse biochemical, immunological and occasionally neural mechanisms which are harmful to the body. Although tissues are being hyperperfused due to the massive vasodilation, the hypotensive state of the individual, paired with the massive inflammation found in septic shock, causes a reduction in tissular oxygen extraction (tissular hypoxia). Resultingly, [[SvO2]] levels are very high.

Septic shock is treated by antibiotics, fluid replacement, and vasoconstrictors.

* Anaphylactic shock - Caused by a severe anaphylactic reaction to an allergen, antigen, drug or foreign protein causing the release of histamine which causes widespread vasodilation. Leading to hypotension and increase capillary permeability.

* Acute adrenal insufficiency is frequently the result of discontinuing corticosteroid treatment without tapering the dosage.

* Neurogenic shock. Neurogenic shock is the rarest form of shock. It is caused by trauma to the spinal cord resulting in the sudden loss of autonomic and motor reflexes below the injury level. Without stimulation by sympathetic nervous system the vessel walls relax uncontrolled, resulting in a sudden decrease in peripheral vascular resistance, leading to vasodilation and hypotension.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 07/30/11 10:04 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa] #170636
07/31/11 08:29 AM
07/31/11 08:29 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Hang in there Lisa and Max hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: bianca] #170696
07/31/11 07:17 PM
07/31/11 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

Global Moderator
MaxaLisa  Offline OP

Global Moderator
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
Thank you bianca.

Some talk today on the tick list about perhaps his persistently enlarged spleen (thought due to tick disease), is sequestering the blood. A definite possibility.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: MaxaLisa] #171047
08/02/11 02:06 PM
08/02/11 02:06 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
It's Tuesday night here so am guessing it's morning there and just wanted to wish you all the luck in the world today for the test results Lisa. Big hugging and zooming good thoughts to you both.


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: bianca] #171048
08/02/11 02:14 PM
08/02/11 02:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,767
Mary Jane Online content
Carpal Tunnel
Mary Jane  Online Content
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,767
Hormone results and an internist consult and it might as well be advanced Mandarin as far as I can help. I just want Lisa to find a path forward for Max.

crossedfingers crossedfingers crossedfingers for an actionable plan.

Mary Jane

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/adrenals? ticks? [Re: Mary Jane] #171059
08/02/11 03:27 PM
08/02/11 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,904
Wisconsin
Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Wisc.Tiger_Val  Offline
Member First - Owner Second "The Watcher"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,904
Wisconsin
Lisa, just checking in today on you and Max. I will check back later today to see what the results are of the test.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
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