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Max: adrenals, SIBO, TBD, immunodeficiency & more #159933
06/06/11 12:27 AM
06/06/11 12:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
One of Max's vets was talking about how they can ultrasound the heart during a regular abdominal ultrasound. It isn't as good as an echocardiogram, but can still recognize some heart abnormalities.

Anything know anything about this?

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 08/08/11 03:36 AM. Reason: changed title, again

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: MaxaLisa] #159937
06/06/11 12:34 AM
06/06/11 12:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 99
Baltimore, MD
V
Virginia Offline
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Virginia  Offline
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V
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Posts: 99
Baltimore, MD
Out of curiosity, why can't an ECG be done? I thought it was the gold standard for heart beat abnormalities.

Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: MaxaLisa] #159938
06/06/11 12:36 AM
06/06/11 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
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JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
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Anna-b had an ultrasound to start her cardiac "journey" after the vet heard her murmur. No answers from that, but then again, none from a fluoroscope or an echo as to cause of the heart issue, but then we found out it was because the AV fistula was right behind her sternum (is that right? big bony thing).

Angelina also had an ultrasound for hers and they found the cause of the murmur in seconds. It was neat. I am trying to remember if there were others. I know when Kramer was being checked they started and went top to bottom. Same radiologist for all three. I really like her.

Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #159979
06/06/11 04:40 AM
06/06/11 04:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
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arycrest  Offline
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Central Florida
Ringer & Kelly both had ultrasounds of their hearts shortly before being put down ... both were diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma of the heart. teary


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: arycrest] #159991
06/06/11 07:01 AM
06/06/11 07:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Thank you all for the info.

Gayle, that's what I'm a bit concerned about. Max has these mysterious symptoms, and hemangio of the heart keeps popping in my head frown I'm so sorry about Ringer and Kelly hugging There was a dog on the tick list that just succumbed to this same thing....so terrible, but it has prompted me to look into this more closely.

Virginia, my vet and I were wanting to do an abdominal ultrasound because of some other issues, and I've been going back and forth on which to do, the u/s, or the echo. Then this other vet mentioned that the u/s can also be done on the heart, at least as a preliminary test. It sounds like this might be the right place to start.

I hope I remember to call the vet tomorrow, though she's not in until Tuesday, as long as she doesn't have time off...

edit: oh, Virginia, just saw you said ECG, which is different than the echocardiogram. I will have to ask about that!!

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 06/06/11 07:04 AM. Reason: oops, need to read more carefully!

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: MaxaLisa] #160001
06/06/11 08:43 AM
06/06/11 08:43 AM
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Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
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bianca  Offline
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Lisa I hope that whatever examination you go for proves fruitful and shows nothing serious at all. Max needs and deserves to enjoy some good health hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: MaxaLisa] #160063
06/06/11 08:36 PM
06/06/11 08:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
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arycrest  Offline
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Central Florida
Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...
Gayle, that's what I'm a bit concerned about. Max has these mysterious symptoms, and hemangio of the heart keeps popping in my head frown I'm so sorry about Ringer and Kelly hugging There was a dog on the tick list that just succumbed to this same thing....so terrible, but it has prompted me to look into this more closely.
...
hugging OMG Lisa, you and Max will be in my prayers that you'll find out what's wrong and it won't be anything serious ... frightening!!!

FWIW ... a short time before Echo died from hemanigosarcoma, he was diagnosed via x-ray ... as a matter of fact he died while the vet was on the phone with me explaining the results. teary


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: arycrest] #160069
06/06/11 09:14 PM
06/06/11 09:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
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LJsMom  Offline
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Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
With LJ, I had the echo done by a cardiologist who also peaked around her spleen, liver, kidneys. He only charged me for the heart one.


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: arycrest] #160136
06/07/11 05:44 AM
06/07/11 05:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: arycrest
FWIW ... a short time before Echo died from hemanigosarcoma, he was diagnosed via x-ray ... as a matter of fact he died while the vet was on the phone with me explaining the results. teary


Oh geez Gayle, how terrible teary

I never seem to be able to get a good diagnosis for Max, couldn't for Indy either, so I'm real cautious about what tests to go for.

I have an appointment Tuesday morning - we'll put a strategy together. The vet in a quick email last night did mention maybe starting with an xray. He gets winded just crossing the room nowadays. If it's pain, it's not something metacam isn't touching frown


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart? [Re: LJsMom] #160137
06/07/11 05:45 AM
06/07/11 05:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Originally Posted By: LJsMom
With LJ, I had the echo done by a cardiologist who also peaked around her spleen, liver, kidneys. He only charged me for the heart one.


I wonder if I can get in touch with Indy's cardio. She went MIA for awhile, and I don't know if I can find her. There's always UC Davis, but I thought that the private cardio put together a better protocol for Indy than UCD would have.

and thank you bianca, I would love for Max to have some better health for awhile!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session [Re: MaxaLisa] #160240
06/07/11 11:21 PM
06/07/11 11:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Well, had an appointment with the vet and talked things over today.
I have to say, I so love this vet. Very logical thinker, understands how I like to care for my dogs, AND also handles me well. What a combination! She also loves Max wub


Heartworm test was negative.

Lungs sound completely clear. Last chest xray was in 2008, where the radiologist referred to the whispy stuff as "dirty lung", but no evidence of disease - he called it "old dog lung". A recheck xray of the chest is still on the list of possible things to do.

She could hear nothing wrong with the heart, though there still can be heart disease. She didn't see cause at this point to do an EKG, since she didn't seem to hear any heartbeat abnormalities. She could see how his heart can pound so violently (at rest) that his ears vibrate. She says that's a lot like a dog with a large heart, though the old chest xrays don't show that evidence. I think she is still leaning towards redoing xrays before doing something like an echocardiogram.

When we were brainstorming, she did mention some forms of pulmonary hypertension. I have a wrist BP monitor that I used to use on Indy....I should start taking his more regularly and see what his current pattern is. She also mentioned maybe bronchitis, though he never coughs, which she would expect. Of course, he fits nothing clearly.....

The stomach doesn't feel right, and hasn't for awhile. It feels kinda thick. The spleen wasn't enlarged today, but it typically isn't if he is on doxycycline. But because the stomach feels "thicker", she didn't get a good feel of the spleen. I know that with some of that abdominal thickening, it can be hard to distinguish between IBD and something like GI lymphoma. His last abdominal u/s, 3/09, when his spleen was enlarged, just showed an enlarged spleen and nothing else out of the ordinary.

So, tomorrow at 7pm he will have an abdominal ultrasound as our starting point. That's when their u/s guy is coming in, and I figured I should just get this done because I am just obsessing about all the terrible things that might be making him feel crappy. After (during?) that, the next step will be determined.

We had to chuckle, since I seem to be chasing zebras with him. I told the vet I would be more than happy to have a horse prance through, but nothing ever seems clear with him shrug

She did mention how good he actually looks though, for a 10 year old dog, in terms of coat, grey-ness, etc. I just wish he felt better. Glad I didn't wait until the appointment next week or later. Now that I'm home, I'm anxious to get this started!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session [Re: MaxaLisa] #160264
06/08/11 01:30 AM
06/08/11 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,618
JeanKBBMMMAAN Offline
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JeanKBBMMMAAN  Offline
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So sounds good - his ears vibrate? I am hoping equally good on the utrasound.

Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session [Re: JeanKBBMMMAAN] #160269
06/08/11 01:49 AM
06/08/11 01:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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MaxaLisa  Offline OP

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Northern CA
Thanks Jean, me too smile

Oh, yeah, the vibrating ears - seems like his heart might burst sometimes. I can't imagine what it would be like if he were very active nowadays.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session [Re: MaxaLisa] #160316
06/08/11 06:29 AM
06/08/11 06:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,488
Central Florida
arycrest Offline
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arycrest  Offline
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Central Florida
Good luck with the ultrasound tomorrow!!!


Gayle
Faith, Ledgie & Scooby
My Bridge Kids: Andy, Abbey, Tasha, Tex, Echo, Yukon, JR, Too, Niki, Bo, Ringer, Kelly, Honey, Mac, Slider & Bruiser
Re: ultrasound for the heart?/Strategy Session [Re: arycrest] #160317
06/08/11 08:29 AM
06/08/11 08:29 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
bianca Offline
Carpal Tunnel
bianca  Offline
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Posts: 8,875
Queensland. Australia
Wishing for horses or ponies tomorrow hugging


Molly Moo (aka The Piranha, 4 legged mouth) GSD (31/10/09)
Cooper GSD (The Gremlin) 19/10/11
Texas - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free sweet Teppie
Paris - Tabby cat (Feb 1996-2013) Run free my beautiful girl.
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