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Maxwell (fistula) #1661
02/13/10 08:05 PM
02/13/10 08:05 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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It looks like Max's fistula is going to be a stubborn one. So I've been thinking I'm missing something, and I think I need to provide his body with some nutrients, but I am unsure what. His immune system can't be boosted and he is sensistive to most things frown

The diet is as controlled as it is going to be.


I have the infection part under control mostly.

For inflammation, I have found aspirin works the best (also using Fish oil, GLA), immune suppression in the form of cyclosporin made it worse.

So, if you thought about an ulcer, say in your intestines, what might help that heal?

He has ample vit E, beta carotene, some aloe each morning (hmmm, maybe not enough), and I'm just experimenting with mega-dosing vitamin B5.

Can anyone think of anything I might have overlooked?


Here's a link to roughly what it looks like, this is an old pic. The internal wound is more extensive, and causes him pain, sometimes quite a bit:




I thought I would help start off the forum with a true stumper wink

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 02/20/11 04:37 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: MaxaLisa] #1700
02/13/10 11:47 PM
02/13/10 11:47 PM
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Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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I might try-- if Max can tolerate it-- a bit more vitamin E in an oil capsule in his meals, as well as some sweet potato to bring down inflammation.

The internal aspect would concern me most, and I would give yogurt (if he can tolerate that) as well to keep the flora strong.

I really wish we had something very effective in our fight against PFs/autoimmune stuff. I look at how humans with autoimmune disorders have to fight to even get them recognized by their docs. It seems mostly women get them. Makes me wonder if hormone therapy has ever been tried for dogs with PF, adding a testosterone injection schedule. My brother had an autoimmune issue, and he had several rounds of it. REALLY, just wish we had more options for dogs with PF.

What worked for my dog may not work for other dogs. Frankly, I'm still stunned it worked for my dog at all, since the PFs came every other months and even with the abx we could just get one healed up before the next started. My vet did Trad Chinese herbs. It was either Long Dan Xi Gai Tan or Xiao Hu Tan. It looked like ground cinnamon, smelled dusty, I had to add icky Iams Sauce so he'd eat it-- but the PFs stopped. Chell lived 2 more years without getting another. (He was put down due to pneumonia after an unrelated surgery on his elbow) Again, I have no clue why ground plants worked. It may not be something you'd want to try. I only tried it as a last resort, a longshot.

Wishing people to supply better ideas, and good solutions for helping heal this lesion for sweetie boy Max!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: Braverhund] #1702
02/14/10 12:15 AM
02/14/10 12:15 AM
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LJsMom Offline
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If you're kind of equating it to an ulcer, I found this:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/peptic-ulcer-000125.htm

See the section starting with "These supplements may also help:"



Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: LJsMom] #1719
02/14/10 02:09 AM
02/14/10 02:09 AM
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Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Owie. frown

I was going to suggest DGL which is on the list that Joanne posted.

I found this info on treating anal fistulas in humans with homeopathy: http://www.homeopathictreatment4u.com/analfistula.html#1

Perhaps you can try the remedies, one at a time, and see what works for Max? Also, I know you like the higher potencies but with Max's compromised immune I know my vet would recommend against using the really high potencies.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: BowWowMeow] #1748
02/14/10 03:36 AM
02/14/10 03:36 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Patti, What perfect timing that I asked. I had asked my vet about those two herbs, and we were waiting for our next appt to talk about them. I had completely forgotten. We are supposed to have an appt on Tuesday, but he is having so much pain (fistula or knee, I don't know which), I don't know if I can get him in the car to get there without doing some damage to him frown


LJsMom! That link has a lot of good information. I will have through some of those supps and remedies one by one and see if they will work. I am thinking that this is kinda like ulcerative colitis, with a bunch of complications (as if ulcerative colitis isn't complicated enough on its own).

Ruth, I have some DGL here, I have my mom use it, but most of the products I can find are chewables and have sweeteners of some kind - very frustrating.

As for the remedies, it's not the I particularly like them, it's just that I'm not afraid to use them if I think it's justified wink For example, silica in lower doses will encourage oozing of a fistula. In a higher dose it is more drying and will tend to dry the fistula. Silica sure makes him act like a butthead though frown , I don't think that's the right remedy for him.. I don't think that he will get better in the longterm without a constitutional homeopathic approach....

I hadn't seen that link on the homeopathy. I have a long list of some of the homeopathic stuff I found online, but haven't figured out the right steps for that yet.

As an odd observation, after about 4 months of antibiotics because of this stuff, my chroncially underweight boy is about to become a bit overweight. Guess he had a bit of SIBO....

Thanks you guys, all good suggestions, no I gotta figure where they all fit in.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: MaxaLisa] #1799
02/14/10 06:50 AM
02/14/10 06:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,451
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Lisa, tons of good thoughts and prayers for Tuesday. May something help. The herbs, a supplement, anything, to help him heal faster, keep the lesions at bay, and help him feel well again, as much as is possible.

I understand the tightrope you are walking, with his other issues and sensitivities. You will not be going to than Tuesday appointment alone, I'll be there with you in spirit. I love Max!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: Braverhund] #1805
02/14/10 08:14 AM
02/14/10 08:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Thank you Patti, we can use all the support that we can get!! I sure hope that the regular vet can help us out some, it would be nice to get some help there too.

Not a super pic, but I would like him to have less pain in the hind end so that we can go on some more outings:



MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: MaxaLisa] #1842
02/14/10 09:52 PM
02/14/10 09:52 PM
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Old Lyme CT
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JakodaCD OA Offline
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hang in there,,it's always a battle:(( gorgeous boy , great pic < I'm keeping paws/fingers crossed


Diane
Ozzie von Kleinen Hain
Jakoda's Kholee
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Danger Danger von Kleinen Hain aka "Masi"
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx aka "Jynx"
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge aka "Jag"
"Angel" Sami
"Angel" Dodge
Re: ulcer/fistula healing? [Re: JakodaCD OA] #1845
02/14/10 10:25 PM
02/14/10 10:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Thanks Diane, it's a battle for sure. Good thing we're fighters!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #4185
02/19/10 02:35 AM
02/19/10 02:35 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Well, we had our appointment a couple of days ago. Poor boy, in addition to a bunch of needles in the back and leg and paw, she put in 6 needles around the fistula. Funny, he didn't seem to mind those at all, though he has been licking a lot back there since!

The pain that he's been getting in his leg, after careful evaluation and looking at the xrays, she doesn't is the knee at all, she thinks it's his back. He's got a very sore spot along his spine, around the point Bladder 26-ish, which coincidentally is associated with large intestine (fistulas are often associated with Crohn's disease in humans, a disease of the LI). I've long thought that the pain is either from the fistula or back. So, perhaps the good news is that we are no longer managing conservatively for a knee injury.

He felt pretty good yesterday, until he slipped and splatted on the floor frown , and has been pretty sore since. Sigh. What a doof, he can't seem to catch a break.

Looks like, except for the 3 million antibiotics we are on to control the fistula from getting worse, we are going alternative for this, the standard protocol does not work for him, no more trials of cyclosporine, and I haven't considered using pred.

Patti, the vet really liked one of the herbs that you mentioned for Max. She wanted to check something first, but we will be headed in that direction. Until then, I am trying an herb mix that DianaB had sent me - it's a combination he has done reasonably well on before, but a powder, so he should tolerate it better.

I actually feel like this is the right direction. I would have gone in this direction before, but my regular vet wasn't available when this all flaired up. As it stands now, she's only in one day a week, which is still difficult, but she is worth trying to arrange things around. I really want to get Max to the point that I can start the underwater treadmill, but we have some things that we have to get past first.

I don't know if any of this is good or bad news, I guess it just, is.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #4191
02/19/10 02:43 AM
02/19/10 02:43 AM
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LJsMom Offline
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I'll be the optimist. I think it is GOOD news. Better to have it just the fistula than the fistula and the knee! You have a plan and sometimes that's half the battle.

I wub Max.


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: LJsMom] #10128
02/26/10 02:19 AM
02/26/10 02:19 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Thank you Joanne, someone needs to be the optimist here headbang

I had given him Silica 1M, and that seems to have stopped the bleeding. That's a major accomplishment, since the bleeding seemed to be getting worse. He is still painful, and it still oozes and has some faint reddish ooze, but the fistula is better, at least from external signs. Silica is a major remedy for fistulas, though I'm pretty convinced that it is not the right one for him.

I had a consult with the homeopathic vet this afternoon. Hopefully she will be able to affect a constitutional change for him - something certainly has to change for him!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #10169
02/26/10 02:40 AM
02/26/10 02:40 AM
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West Bay RI
SunCzarina Offline
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Lisa, I don't have any wisdom for you. Rex's took a long time too. Max is a gorgeous boy, I hope it clears up soon.


-Jenn

Otto von Hena-c 5/23/08
Penny the Pocket Panther 8/2/10
Venus of Crooked Creek 1/25/13 Vivacious V!!!

Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: SunCzarina] #10200
02/26/10 02:56 AM
02/26/10 02:56 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Thank you Jenn, I feel so frustrated for him, this has been since August, and probably internally longer.

It sounds like Rex's did close up, so that helps give us hope.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #10400
02/26/10 05:53 AM
02/26/10 05:53 AM
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BowWowMeow Offline
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Ah Max...get better for your mama! Have you tried Reiki Lisa? I wonder if that would help too. I hope the homeopath comes up with a good remedy. And acupuncture needles don't hurt at all, they're just a little tingly. I've had 20 of them at once, right around my eyes.


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: BowWowMeow] #10407
02/26/10 06:16 AM
02/26/10 06:16 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Reiki helps, but I guess I haven't been real consistent with it. I've been so tired from working lately, I just fall asleep in the middle of a session, and that doesn't help him so much!

Max has certain areas where the needles are uncomfortable for him. The vet used to have to use smaller needles on him, though now he's very good with the regular sized ones. Just seems funny to see him mildly react on some of the back and leg needles, and not a bit with all those in their butt!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #15372
03/07/10 12:12 AM
03/07/10 12:12 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Update, just to keep track of our steps...

I tried the DMG both orally and in the fistula. I was giving .5ml twice a day. My verdict? It either helped or it didn't. I still don't know.

His eyes were significantly less red, his lupus-y looking nose started to heal very nicely. The fistula itself started to change, though it's not clear if for the better or the worse.

I would have kept using it, but it seemed to cause him to go through periods of hypersalivation (we're talking puddles on the floor???). I was thinking that maybe the sinuses were draining perhaps. He was also starting to have raspy breathing. He used to do this a lot. I might try using it at a lower dose or less frequently, I really liked how much better his nose was on it. For now, I am going to get him more stable with his breathing before I start experimenting with it again.

I talked with the homeopathic vet yesterday, I had to wait until she had done her work up on him. She said that the remedy I gave him was one that she kinda liked for him. So we are going to monitor for another week and see what happens. The 1M potencies are longer acting, we don't see their full affect until about 6 weeks after the dose, whereas the 30c potencies is about 1-2 weeks.

The fistula itself is changing. When we tried taking him off the doxy at the end of last year, he developed some fullness at about 6 o'clock. It has been uncomfortable for him, and I have noticed it has been bulging a bit, moreso after the Silica dose. Just recently it looks to be opening up into another slit/open sore. I am not convinced that this is a bad thing, I think it might need to open in order to heal. I dunno.

So, overall, Max is either getting better, or worse

On a brighter side, the pain he feels in his back leg (fistula side) is much better. He still favors it greatly and I can't let him out in the yard off-leash, but he is able to climb back on the couch and reclaim his throne, which is wonderful to see. He can also walk up the stairs again, carefully. Now *that* I am very relieved about, since I was really getting tired of sleeping on the floor with him downstairs. I think that lasted about two weeks this time. We are all happy to be back in our cozy beds

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 03/07/10 12:21 AM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #15835
03/07/10 11:20 PM
03/07/10 11:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
We are all happy to be back in our cozy beds


I'm envious!!


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: LJsMom] #15869
03/08/10 01:20 AM
03/08/10 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline OP

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Oh, no, are you still sleeping in LJ's bed???


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: fistula healing? Maxwell Update [Re: MaxaLisa] #15883
03/08/10 01:45 AM
03/08/10 01:45 AM
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Massachusetts
vio79 Offline
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Oh, poor Max (and you)! I hope this clears up soon and that you find something that will work for him in the long run.

What is it with dogs named Max? confused

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