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Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Braverhund] #65203
07/17/10 07:29 PM
07/17/10 07:29 PM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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It's nice to have separate time with the dogs, even if it is for medical stuff. Even though I took Indy to Max's treadmill last time, I try not too - I really think he enjoys "his" time.

That L4-L6 is one of the really bad areas on Max too frown

How is she feeling today?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

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Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #65266
07/18/10 12:09 AM
07/18/10 12:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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She seemed a little tired earlier this afternoon. DH is going to take her in to her regular vet for a recheck (for the Lyme) during the week. It's hot hereand it could just be the weather, but I want to be sure.

We just came in from a short Chuck-it session. She was happy to be out playing. And seemed a little disappointed when I said it was time to go in. (It's in the 90's here and humid so I didn't want to overdo it with either one of them.) I'm not entirely sure, but I think I see a little difference in her gait when she's running after the ball. Before, it seemed a little more cramped and slow. Tonight it seemed a little more fluid and normal.

She's got another appointment for next Friday. Should be interesting to see if there are more changes as we continue the treatment.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Woodreb] #65279
07/18/10 12:57 AM
07/18/10 12:57 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Some dogs will crash to some degree when taken off doxy - mine do. The ongoing debate is how much of that is continued infection, versus inflammation from the infection. So coming off of doxy may cloud things.

Instead of looking at activity level for the chiro and/or acu, you may want to key off of some other things too, how the legs or shoulders move a certain way, for example.

I hope the heat is just getting to her. Max went to a new acu vet and has been pretty low key since then - with some of these treatments, there is always the possibility that there is a slight decline after the first couple of visits. I guess it will take a few more days to see what is going on crossedfingers.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
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Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #65305
07/18/10 01:55 AM
07/18/10 01:55 AM
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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Actually, I'm more concerned that the activity level is related to the Lyme problem. It's been almost a week that she's been off of the doxy. How long have your dogs been down after coming off doxy?

One thing I know I'll be looking at with respect to the chiro/acupuncture is her gait. As I said earlier, it has seemed a little off to me and today seemed a little more normal. The other thing we'll be watching is the limping or anything signs of knuckling. The vet has recommended trying to find 3-5 areas that we can monitor to evaluate how she is doing with the treatments.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Woodreb] #65412
07/18/10 07:34 AM
07/18/10 07:34 AM
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
Actually, I'm more concerned that the activity level is related to the Lyme problem.


Me too.

I've had Indy crash within 2 days being off of antibiotics. Max was never that quick.

Sounds like a good plan with the chiro.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #65470
07/18/10 03:57 PM
07/18/10 03:57 PM
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New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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Right now the plan is for DH to get her in to see our regular vet Monday if he can get an appointment. That way we can get her checked and see if we should continue the treatment for the Lyme.

She perks up quickly enough if you mention going outside or going for a walk. But I have the feeling we need to treat for longer to get her over the Lyme. She still seems a little off to me.

Well, we're off to spend some time in the basement. It's a bit cooler down there and I'm in the middle of a woodworking project.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Woodreb] #65507
07/18/10 06:00 PM
07/18/10 06:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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I'm pretty sure you know my feelings on length of treatment, there are so many layers to infection. I hope your vet doesn't take your concerns lightly - so many of them do with tick diseases, even many of the better vets.

There is of course the issue that tick diseases need to be hit hard and for a sufficient amount of time even after symptoms are gone. One of the other problems is that pretty quickly after doxy hits the lyme spirochete, it can turn into a cyst form and hide from the abx. This is where I got into trouble with Indy - I treated her with flagyl for awhile to get at that, and, in her body, it had severe consequences. I have often wondered if panacur, which is an "azole" also, could get at these, but I don't know. For indy, I follow every treatment with a round of panacur. I completely made that up though, there is no proof that panacur helps.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #65631
07/19/10 02:15 AM
07/19/10 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,083
Rhode Island
LJsMom Offline
Old Hand
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Steel and I are believers in using the panacur to get at the Lyme cysts!


Joanne

Kryska's Ironwill Steel Train SD (Siberian Husky) 8-6-99
Miss Mila Monster (GSD) 4-14-02

Waiting at the bridge:
Lady Jane Cobb (GSD - age 15)
Sasha (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Niko (Siberian Husky - age 14)
Wooly Bear (Siberian Husky - age 13)
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: LJsMom] #67551
07/24/10 02:06 AM
07/24/10 02:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,453
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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Woodreb  Online Coffee OP
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DH took Aodhán in to our regular vet for a followup check on the Lyme and she tested negative. We'll just be keeping a close eye on her for a while.

Then she went with him up to the holistic vet for her chiro and acupuncture treatment. He said that the vet told him she actually has less muscle mass in her right hip/leg than the left, so she's concentrating a little more on that side with the acupuncture treatment.

I hope we can get out for a walk tomorrow, so I can see how she's walking. It's supposed to be another hot day in CT and we all plan on hiding in the basement for the worse part of the day. I'll be glad when it cools down a little. sunburn


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Woodreb] #67682
07/24/10 07:43 PM
07/24/10 07:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
DH took Aodhán in to our regular vet for a followup check on the Lyme and she tested negative. We'll just be keeping a close eye on her for a while.....


I read this the other night, and was thinking about it for a bit. In all the years on the tick list, I don't recall a SNAP test going negative in such a short time. There may have been cases where that I wasn't paying attention to, but typically antibodies to the lyme spirochete persist for a VERY long time, which quickly renders the SNAP useless after the initial test.

I'm not sure what it means at this point!! I guess the good thing is that now you know what signs to look for if there is a relapse. And if you do bloodwork down the road, I might throw a urinalysis on, just to check in on the kidneys, during any wellness visit.

Hope it's not too scathing hot there!


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #67749
07/24/10 11:39 PM
07/24/10 11:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,453
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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Woodreb  Online Coffee OP
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I think I need to talk to the vet directly. DH was relaying what they talked about and he's usually pretty good about getting his information right, but the bill says there is still a positive for anaplasma, but he told Randy the results were OK. And the vet did do a draw for CBC. I don't have the results of that yet - will have to call on Monday.

It's hot and we've been staying in the basement most of the afternoon. The predicted high was 96, with a heat index of 106. I know other parts of the country get worse weather than this, but in New England, that's just not comfortable and I prefer cooler weather.

Aodhán seems to be feeling OK from what I can see. Her behavior is about what I would expect, considering the heat and all. I still plan on keeping a pretty close eye on her.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Woodreb] #67788
07/25/10 01:57 AM
07/25/10 01:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: Woodreb
..... but the bill says there is still a positive for anaplasma, but he told Randy the results were OK. And the vet did do a draw for CBC. I don't have the results of that yet - will have to call on Monday.....


If that is the case, you are in a whole 'nuther ballgame, one which can be more fatal if not treated aggressively. I hope that the bill is wrong. If it's not wrong, and your vet didn't jump on this, I would be concerned.

If you can get a copy of the bloodwork when it gets it, I would be very interested in seeing it.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #67791
07/25/10 02:08 AM
07/25/10 02:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,436
Massachusetts
Braverhund Offline
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Massachusetts
If Aodhan were still positive for anaplasma, wouldn't the vet just keep her on the Doxy a few more weeks to knock it out of the ballpark? Or? Maybe it's okay, since the vet said the results were OK? I am sending good thoughts to you, Randy, Aodhan and Caleb! Grimmi sends wags. Hopefully, Aodhan wub of The Glowing Chuck-It will be feeling better soon with her treatments. Good for you for staying cooler in the cellar. We also can hardly wait for fall!


Patti
Frauchen von:

Grimm van den Heuvel, "Donnerpratzen"
Smokey The TeddyLion, DLH purrbuddy

Dir gehört mein Herz
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: Braverhund] #67793
07/25/10 02:20 AM
07/25/10 02:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,487
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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Titers can rise when antibiotic treatment starts - it often wakes up the immune system. It's possible that the anaplamosa titer was not high enough to register on the first SNAP, but once treatment began, it rose enough to be picked up on the second SNAP. The SNAP picks up lyme at a lower titer than anaplasmosa...

I wonder if there was any "operator error?"

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 07/25/10 02:31 AM. Reason: forgot a word!

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: First Chiropractic/Acupuncture Visit [Re: MaxaLisa] #67960
07/25/10 06:36 PM
07/25/10 06:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,453
New Milford, CT
Woodreb Online coffee OP
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Woodreb  Online Coffee OP
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Lisa,

I spoke with my husband a little more on exactly what the vet said and according to the test the C6 for Lyme was clearly negative. He thinks that the other result is a false positive based on this:

"Whole-cell antigens of the Borrelia
burgdorferi spirochete are assumed to be
rapidly sequestered by the follicular dendritic
cells (FDCs), resulting in long-lived B cell
memory."

from http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf...white-paper.pdf
(I understand that this particular statement is specific to the Lyme, but apparently the concept can apply to the others as well.)

And we're doing the CBC and he'd like to recheck the CBC in a month or two, depending on the results of this check.

In any event, we'll be keeping a close eye on her and continuing to monitor. While she didn't have liquid poop on the doxy, it was rather soft and sometimes not well formed. I hate to keep medicating unless there's a good reason for it.

She's energetic and there have been no signs of limping for the past couple of weeks.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
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